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canuck4570
07-12-2006, 03:51 PM
I have a 4570 love it but recoil his getting to me so I am looking for something with less kik..... I would like to know if anyone of you have experience hunting with the .338 caliber for whitetale and moose.... My shots will be up to 200 yards...the bullet I intend to use would be in the 220 gr range with a 65 to 70 percent meplat.... aloy woud be w.w. speed would be minimun of 1800 fps to has fast has I can shoot them without leadind and good accuracy. Thank you from Canuck (tender shoulder)

felix
07-12-2006, 04:08 PM
That would be the 06 case or any case that holds 60 grains of powder max at shoulder? If so, you should be able to get 2100 fps. Try a full case of 860 for starters. ... felix

canuck4570
07-12-2006, 04:18 PM
felix that would be the new caliber by federal wich is a 308 neck up to 338

Bass Ackward
07-12-2006, 04:23 PM
felix that would be the new caliber by federal wich is a 308 neck up to 338

Canucky,

It all depends on what the twist rate is. If you are willing to go that diameter, then let me recommend something close in the 35 bore. The 35 bore is the cast bullet friendly bore because of the twist rates. Preference of case shape matters little because they all work. It just depends on how much weight you want to sling.

canuck4570
07-12-2006, 04:26 PM
the twist on the Sako 85 is 1 in 10

felix
07-12-2006, 04:54 PM
Uggg, Canuck! Too much twist for your speed objective. BA is right. If you havn't the gun yet, then don't get it. If you want the gun, find a 308 bolt gun, and rebarrel to 338 at 14 twist. That would be roughly equivalent to the 35's at 16 twist which are very cast friendly. Your 10 twist is like a 358's 12 twist because both work at 1800 fps with a 220. Go on up to a 35 if you are not dead on with your idea. ... felix

6pt-sika
07-12-2006, 05:07 PM
I've wanted a 338-08 (338 Federal) , ever since I saw Ken Waters write up a few years ago . No I do not need it , yes there are other things that may be better at specific jobs . But I would like to have a 338-08 period. :drinks:

felix
07-12-2006, 05:43 PM
OK, then, a faster powder in the medium speed range would be best. Need to get 38-40K cup minimum with that 220 grainer. 3031 thru 4895 would be the entire range in burn speed. I would stay around the 3031 speed first, and migrate to slower if need be should accuracy not be sufficient. Psychological recoil is lower with the faster powder, and that might provide the best accuracy anyway. ... felix

waksupi
07-12-2006, 08:13 PM
We built a .338 Federal at work a couple weeks ago. It is kind of a ho-hum velocity cartridge, with jacketed bullets. Around 2700 fps.
I would really go with the suggestion of going up to the .358 size( no surprise to anyone who knows my rifle preferences!). With a 1-12 twist, and a 225-280 gr bullet weight range, you can go up to around 2100 fps, in my experience. Plenty for deer and moose. This has performed well on deer, elk, and buffalo for me.
I have no doubt that the .338 Fed will do the job, with the proper bullet. Use what you are comfortable with
On another board, we have a discussion about the most useful parent case. .308 is my choice. It will handle pretty much anything you will ever shoot, when either necked up, or down.

StarMetal
07-12-2006, 09:23 PM
I can't remember what the rifling twist is on my Steyr M95 Mannlicher carbine in 8x56R, but I bet you it's 1 in 10 or faster. Another thing, my groove mikes out to .331 as does Buckshot's rifle and that's damn close to a 338 which is .338. The original military bullet weight something like 207 grs and I've been shooting cast slugs that are well over that weight. What's my point here? My point is my carbine damn near shoots into a 7/8 inch group with peep sights. So don't tell me the twist is too fast for that new Federal 338-08. Another thing, I've seen alot of animals shot with a 338 Win Mag and that son of a gun is like the hammer of Thor. If you look at what a 338 mag throws a 225 gr bullet at and compare that with a 338-06 you'll see it's on the mags heels, and I'll bet the Federal 338-08 isn't any slouch either. Would I rather see NO new cartridges come along? No, I'd rather see what they are doing. I was very interested in a 338-06 at one time long ago and then something else caught my interest and I never built the rifle. This 338 Federal is very interesting. I won't lie to you, the 358 Win is one neglected cartridge and one of the damn best cartridges ever invented.

Joe

Bass Ackward
07-13-2006, 07:09 AM
My point is my carbine damn near shoots into a 7/8 inch group with peep sights. So don't tell me the twist is too fast for that new Federal 338-08. Another thing, I've seen alot of animals shot with a 338 Win Mag and that son of a gun is like the hammer of Thor. Joe


Joe,

There is nothing magical about any bore diameter. There is nothing magical about any case capacity. Pick a bullet weight that you want to use. Find a shape that makes that weight aero dynamic enough to work for you out to the range of interest. Pick a bore diameter that will handle the weight / shape you have selected. Twist it properly to stabilize the highest weight you will use out to that range but no more. Then match a case capacity to a certain barrel length that will develop cast bullet pressures with a wide variety of powders to launch the cast bullet at the velocity you require to obtain the trajectory level and you have it.

If that is a 338-08, then you're home.

canuck4570
07-14-2006, 06:51 AM
thank you for all the reply.... what puzzle me is that I read on the site that many shooter have rifle like the 3006 and 308 and other caliber with twist on the 1 in 10 range or near and do shoot around 2000 fps with no problem the only experience that I have with the 35 caliber is that in the 1980 I bought a 350 remington magnum and you are right it shot very well with cast even at 2200 fps range.....

6pt-sika
07-14-2006, 08:26 AM
I "WILL" get a 338 Federal at some point however I prefer it to be a Remington Model 7 . And not custom , just a factory stainless synthetic or CDL .

Also if I can get one , I have NO intention of shooting cast in it [smilie=1:

Nosler makes two BT's in 180 and 200 grain . Along with the 210 grain Partition . Those three will be all I need :drinks:

waksupi
07-15-2006, 12:56 AM
If you buy Remingtons, get on thier asses, and tell them to upgrade thier bottom metal. Cheap ass pot metal stuff, that doesn't belong on a rifle.

canuck4570
07-15-2006, 10:52 AM
I am buying a Sako 85 .... I have complaint about theire safety wich does not lock the bolt.... but I guess they must have very effective ear muff....

John F. Lang
07-15-2006, 11:36 AM
Canuck4570,
I am constantly amazed by the comments recieved when someone asks a question such as yours.
You get the good, the bad and sometimes the absurd!

I tend to agree with StarMetal about the twist. Don't sweat the 1 in 10, it'll do just fine.

I am heading off to South Dakota shortly on vacation and will meet a friend there who will bring his 338-08 reamer for me to bring home to put together a 338-08 cast gun for hunting. He has had his 338-08 for several years and has taken three black bears and several whitetail with it in and around his home in Pennsylvania(?).
He has been using jacked bullets, specificaly the 225 Gr Hornady and the reamer is long throated so that the 225 Gr slug seats to the base of the neck.

Just right for a cast bullet to my way of thinking!!!

I intend to try to hunt mountain lions with it over a call which is legal here in New Mexico.
The barrel I am going to use is a 1/10 twist as are several other 338 cal rifles I have built for friends and customers.
I have a 338-06 on the back burner for myself in the Remington 760 pump as a backup elk rifle.

If you go ahead and get the 338-08, I think you will be satisfied with it.

Have fun and good shooting!!

JL

StarMetal
07-15-2006, 01:03 PM
John,

You're friend done it right. That is chambering long so that 225 can be loaded out longer, thus making that 338-08 every bit as effective as the 338-06. I did the same thing with the 260 Rem I build on my Jap Arisaka 38. I throated it out longer to see the 140 gr bullet out where it should be.

Joe

waksupi
07-15-2006, 02:07 PM
Canuck, if you get a Sako, check for clearance, behind the tang. I see lots of them without relief, and the stock eventually will be cracked in this area. Be sure the bedding is good, where it is supposed to be, and you will be good to go.

Bass Ackward
07-16-2006, 08:11 PM
He has been using jacked bullets, specificaly the 225 Gr Hornady and the reamer is long throated so that the 225 Gr slug seats to the base of the neck.

Just right for a cast bullet to my way of thinking!!!




Mr Lang,

Beautiful example from a cast standpoint.

A 225 grain lead bullet in 338 bore diameter can be stabilized with a 13 twist. A 235 grain in 35 caliber only needs 16 twist for the same stabilization. So if the 10 twist was required for stabilization of a cast bullet, the bullet would need to weigh ..... 300 grains.

But the disadvantage here is that the 338-08 is a short action. Seating depth would be severe for functioning in the action. Clearly, a 10 twist is way beyond normal reason for cast. Cast bullet velocities would need to be held well below trajectory producing levels for cast in this caliber. It would punch a hole, but ranges would be limited by the 10 twist.

StarMetal
07-16-2006, 08:37 PM
Bass,

Tell that to my 8x56R Steyr, 8x57 Mauser, and 30-06.

Joe

Bass Ackward
07-17-2006, 07:10 AM
Bass,

Tell that to my 8x56R Steyr, 8x57 Mauser, and 30-06.

Joe


Joe,

The question in your mind should not be what your guns ARE, .... but what they COULD BE if they had cast twist rates? And you can work and find the right combination of "ultra hard" bullet and maybe .... get a 10 twist to work with a load ot two. And that is OK for a paper puncher, but why have to fool around with a hunting piece?

Examples:

We built a 35 Whelen AI for a guy with a 10 twist barrel. He wanted it to match penetration and performance of a 338 on big game? (Then why not build a 338?) Then he got bored with it and wanted to shoot some cast in it. Using my bullets at my hardness, even though he has 2" more of barrel, .... his velocity ceiling is 300 fps "lower" than my 14 twist. If you lopped off 2" of extra barrel length he has over mine, then I would guess that advantage might go to 400 fps.

I have a 20 twist 458X2 that was so far ahead with softer lead that I scrapped the 14 twist even though the 14 twist was the more accurate rifle.

We built a 6.5-06 with an 11 twist that had absolutely no problems with 105 grain cast bullets over 2000 fps. Did you read that right, a 6.5 bore?

Look at the twist rates on cast bullet bench guns in 30 caliber.

Why would the 338 bore be any different?

If the discussion is strictly cast, and you want to achieve "flexible" levels of performance with cast bullets for hunting.... then I would say that it is safer to play the odds. "In general", manufacturers don't start to make cast bullet "friendly" guns with rational twist rates for cast until you get to 35 caliber.

To tell someone any differently on the chance he will .... "get lucky" with the exception to the rule is not fair in my book.

canuck4570
07-17-2006, 09:42 AM
I will be getting the knew model 85 and I am thinking of having a mold made by mountain mold looking like the sako 190 gr. with long bore ridind nose so it would not be sitting to much inside the case and on the heavy side 250 to 275 gr bullet .... the weight will be adjusted so the cartrige will fitt in the magazine correctly.....

canuck4570
07-17-2006, 09:50 AM
I have a 416 remington TRG made by sako and it has a 1 in 14 twist.... with the 350 gr RCBS molds this rifle shoot 1 to 1 and a half inche group all day with any combination of powder but with 72 gr of imr 4831 well cloverleaf.... I must say I am very lucky according to are great and informative conversation....

canuck4570
07-17-2006, 09:56 AM
forgot to say and before it is ask..... the 350 gr. bullet is cast with w.w. air cooled......

canuck4570
07-17-2006, 10:09 AM
My first choice when I decided to change rifle was to go to 35 whelen in the remington cdl but I can not stand the safety wich leave the bolt unlocked and here in the Eastern woods of quebec so many of my friend who has the model 700 notice when walking in heavy brush that the bolt open up and the cartrige end up lost in the bush somewhere..... I know that you are able to change this safety but here in quebec the gunsmith are almost non existing.....

StarMetal
07-17-2006, 11:29 AM
Bass,

As amazing as it may sound those three rifles I mentioned will shoot any alloy at an amazing wide variety of velocities. Usually I'll work up a load with a certain hardness alloy. Then if it's shooting really good I'll play around and for hunting I'll try it with a very soft alloy for hunting. The 8x56R Steyr responded amazingly well to that. The CZ 550 in 30-06 does the same thing. This baby will put the 314299 of any alloy into very small groups "under an inch" at a very wide range of velocities too. I'm not buying it yet Bass, I have too many rifles that shoot like that. You know some of the "experts" are thinking that over stabilization isn't as bad as they once thought, I'll grant you, on jacketed bullets. Remember the time I blistered some 70 gr 22 caliber cast bullets that I got from Bullshop out of my 1 in 7 twist AR15? No, it didn't cut little one hole groups, but it sure didn't scatter them like a buckshot load either. These were well into the 3000 fps bracket. They weren't real hard alloy either.

I'm not saying your slower twist is no good. I'm not saying that all. What I am saying is don't sell the fast twist short until you've tried it. You know I'm thinking here as I write this. That 8x56R Steyr has what you always say is conductive to good cast shooting and that is very deep grooves or another way, very tall rifling. Could it be the newer rifles with the more modern rifling, usually button rifling, that have a fast twist not get as good grip on the bullet as my Steyr? Same with my 98 Mauser and my CZ, they both have pretty deep rifling. The 98 Mauser I know is cut, not sure on the CZ.

Joe

felix
07-17-2006, 11:44 AM
A CZ rifle definitely has hammer forged barrels. No exceptions. ... felix

StarMetal
07-17-2006, 11:51 AM
Felix,

It's been a while since I looked down that CZ tube, but I remember the rifling because for a .308 groove supposely, it was a tad on the fat side and if I remember correctly it's 4 groove...will have to check again.

Joe

Bass Ackward
07-17-2006, 12:51 PM
Bass,

As amazing as it may sound those three rifles I mentioned will shoot any alloy at an amazing wide variety of velocities. I'm not saying your slower twist is no good. I'm not saying that all. What I am saying is don't sell the fast twist short until you've tried it. Joe


Joe,

Over stabilization is really not the issue or problem with a faster twist. But the fact exists, the faster the twist, the steeper the angle of the rifling. The steeper the angle of the rifling, the more resistance to forward motion of a bullet at a critical time. Giving the same effect as increased bullet weight on the base. Using a slower twist has the same effect as going to a slower powder. It cuts pressure on the base of the bullet where and when force is the greatest and most lead bullet damage occurs.

Second is that after the bullet gets moving, the rotational force is greater on the lead being held by the rifling. Common sence should show, spin it easier and it will remain balanced to a higher velocity.

That's as plain as I can make it. When you realize that lead is only so strong, it should jump out at you that the ideal condition for lead would be no rifling twist rate at all. But then it wouldn't stabilize. So ideally, only rotate it fast enough to stabilize should be the recipie for the highest possible velocity use.

Canuck,

If I understand that the 4831 load shoots the best in your 416 Rem, and the other powders are faster, then you have just proven my point. Cutting the pressure on a bullet's base is paramount for high velocity. Running a slower twist rate has the same effect as running a slower powder. Try getting that velocity with say 4198 and see what happens to your ACWW bullet.

Guys have a great week.

canuck4570
07-17-2006, 01:12 PM
you got a good point Mr. Ackward ..... in all the different caliber that I have shot this is generaly right but as I said earlyer I dont like the remington safety and I prefer a short action and the only caliber that seems right is the 338 federal...... How I wish they where good gun smith here in Canada

canuck4570
07-17-2006, 01:17 PM
I guess this is a throw of the dice.... My 30-06 A bolt shoot very very good near full load and my 350 remington that I regretably sold did group very good also.... I would like to know if the answer telling me that the fast twist grouped well was with air cooled w.w. or heat threated

StarMetal
07-17-2006, 01:59 PM
Bass,

I know all that. That is technical theory and it doesn't always prove out. That's what I'm trying to tell you. I have rifles with fast twists that will shoot the softer alloys at higher velocities without exceeding the cartridge's pressure range (in fact don't slow much of a pressure sign) and shoot accurate without leading. Yes I know fast twists put more stress on the cast bullet and raise the pressure more then a slower twist, but I'm not getting to a pressure issue and still getting the velocity.

Another rifle I have that will do (take in concideration this isn't a real high velocity cartridge to start with even in jacketed shooting) is my Yugo SKS. I can shoot 100 gr up to 220 without any issues. Same with my 7.7 Jap and my 7.65 Argie....all which have fast twist. You know me good enough that I don't use pistol powders in my cast rifle loads. I'm merely a shooter who wanted to make his own lead bullets instead of shooting jacketed. That means I had begun and still shoot cast rifle loads like they are jacketed. I probably approached this cast shooting alot differently then most the forum members here. I believe alot of them shoot casts with pistol powders to save money and be able to shoot alot, to just name a couple reasons. I never cared about the economics of shooting and still don't. I would still shoot cast bullets if their costs approached jacketed bullet costs.

So, maybe I have alot of experience at shooting cast bullets in fast twist rifles, at higher then plinkin velocities, and with heavy bullets???

Joe

canuck4570
07-17-2006, 02:24 PM
Well I will try this 338 federal..... rifle has been ordered it a Sako model 85 in stainless steel with sinthetic stock.... my lps leopold 2xto 10x should look good on this rifle....the only snag it wont be delivered before this fall ..... and has soon as I am able to give you some news on its shooting accuracy with cast I will do so

Bass Ackward
07-20-2006, 08:19 PM
I'm not buying it yet Bass, I have too many rifles that shoot like that. I'm not saying your slower twist is no good. I'm not saying that all. What I am saying is don't sell the fast twist short until you've tried it. Joe


Joe,

You are so right. And remember that I shoot cast like jacketed except in a handgun where that is for fun. And all I can tell you is that in every case or example I told you, I did try fast twists and decided to change. The only 10 twists I still own are 06s. Just because it has been too painfull to convert them. Most accurate factory gun I ever owned is my 700. But it will eventually happen. Going to be a tall, cut rifled, 35 Whelen. Maybe .008 in 16 twist. Should shoot damn near pure lead at jacketed velocities.

Less accuracy variation because of temperature sensitivity to powders and lubes too. No more cold weather surprises from lubes when hunting. The faster the twist, the bigger the surprise in freezing temps.

My latest conversion is a 223 with a 14 twist down from my previous 12.

So if you go by what a man that has owned both twists and has the option to change does, then a least you know he believes it. In EVERY single case switching has been a winner for lead .... for me. :grin:

StarMetal
07-20-2006, 08:49 PM
Bass,

I had a 7x57 Mauser Winchester featherweight that shot cast darn good and fast too, under an inch at 100 yards easy. That's a fast twist and the rifling isn't deep on it. Now that I think of it a 7mmMag Sako that I once owned shot cast pretty good too, and I think that's a lousy cartridge to shoot cast out of. The list goes on.

Joe

Bass Ackward
07-21-2006, 05:08 AM
Bass,

I had a 7x57 Mauser Winchester featherweight that shot cast darn good and fast too, under an inch at 100 yards easy. That's a fast twist and the rifling isn't deep on it. Now that I think of it a 7mmMag Sako that I once owned shot cast pretty good too, and I think that's a lousy cartridge to shoot cast out of. The list goes on.

Joe


Joe,

If your argument is going to be based on the fact that there are rifles out there that shoot cast bullets I can't argue that. Have you ever rebarrelled a rifle from a fast twist to a slow to compare for yourself the increasein options you achieve by doing so?

StarMetal
07-21-2006, 09:43 AM
Bass,

Yes and no. Remember I built a 260 Rem on a Jap Type 38 Arisaka? Well the twist on it is 1 in 9. Now if you concider the 6.5 Swede twist, that mine is a drop to a slower twist, not alot I grant you, but a drop. Does it shoot any better then a Swede? NO Not one bit.

Joe

LGS
07-28-2006, 06:13 PM
I used a Mauser 338-06 to take 6 animals in South Africa last August. I used a Hornady 225gr Interlock to take game from a 450lb Kudu to a 40lb Diuker ( a little over kill on the Duiker). The 338 bullet performace was excellent. The 338-06 can handle a bullet from 200gr to 275gr with no trouble. The caliber gives almost the same balistics as the 338 Win Mag with less powder and recoil. If you like the 338 buy one you will be happy.

StarMetal
07-28-2006, 07:35 PM
LGS

I'll have to agree with you on the 338-06 performance is on par with the 338 mag with less powder and recoil. I was really hot and building one long ago and never got around to it.

Joe

LGS
07-29-2006, 03:43 AM
Star

If you decide to build a 338-06 try this gunsmith. He built my riflle. His prices are very resonable.

http://skaggsgunsmithing.com/

Larry Gibson
07-29-2006, 01:42 PM
Joe,

You are so right. And remember that I shoot cast like jacketed except in a handgun where that is for fun. And all I can tell you is that in every case or example I told you, I did try fast twists and decided to change. The only 10 twists I still own are 06s. Just because it has been too painfull to convert them. Most accurate factory gun I ever owned is my 700. But it will eventually happen. Going to be a tall, cut rifled, 35 Whelen. Maybe .008 in 16 twist. Should shoot damn near pure lead at jacketed velocities.

Less accuracy variation because of temperature sensitivity to powders and lubes too. No more cold weather surprises from lubes when hunting. The faster the twist, the bigger the surprise in freezing temps.

My latest conversion is a 223 with a 14 twist down from my previous 12.

So if you go by what a man that has owned both twists and has the option to change does, then a least you know he believes it. In EVERY single case switching has been a winner for lead .... for me. :grin:

Starmetal

I agree with Bass. With cast bullets in rifles using most "regular" designes it is not the "over stabilization" of RPM that causes inaccuracy. It is the effect centrifical force, caused by higher RPM, has on the ability of the alloy to stay together and on any imbalances caused by irregularities in the bullet. Some short for caliber bullets that are just a tight fit in the throat seem to have the higher velocity/RPM threshold than longer bore riders. I suspect they develop less defomation on acceleration.

Again in discussing this we must agree on a definition of what is excellent, good or poor accuracy. With regular cast bullets in good accurate rifles I define excellent as the cast bullet performing equal to or within 1/2 to 1 MOA (testing at 100 yards not 50 yards) of the rifles abilitity with quality jacketed bullets (i.e. a 1 MOA rifle should shooot "excellent" cast groups of 1 to 2 MOA) . I define good cast bullet accuracy as within 2-3 MOA of the quality jacketed bullet loads (i.e. 2-4 MOA) I define poor accuracy as goups over 4 MOA.

The exception here is with milsurp semi auto rifles and when comparing cast to milsurp ammo in such rifles. Excellent remains the same; equal to or within 1 MOA of quality jacketed bullet loads. Good is a cast bullet load that equals milsurp ammo (not to hard to do with hard cast 115-130 gr bullets in and SKS at 2100-2300 fps as we're talking 5-6 MOA anyway). Poor accuracy is any group over what good milsurp will do in the rifle; generally 2-4 MOA.

I'm just throw my ideas out here so maybe we can come up with a "standard" for assesing accuracy.

At normal cast bullet hunting ranges of out to 150 yards (probably 75% of all hunting range anyway) I find good accuracy to be acceptable with softer alloys that expand (not shatter or shear). This is usually in the 1900-2000 fps range with .30 cal 1-10" twist barrels or 2000-2200 fps with 1-12" twist barrels. Accuracy of 2-3 MOA for the first 5 shots out of the cold clean barrel are the norm but groups will open to 4-5 MOA if a 10 shot group is fired. Cleaning the barrel is then required. This is more than adequate for hunting because I've never fire 5 shots a a big game animal let alone 10.

With hard cast bullets a 1 MOA .30 cal rifle with a 1-10" twist can attain and maintain 2-3 MOA 5 shot groups all day at 1850-2000 fps. That is "good". However if we drop the velocity into the 1650-1800 range most often we can maintain 1 - 1 1/2 MOA all day long; that is "excellent".

I also have pushed cast bullets quite fast out of 1-7 and 1-9" twist .223s. Mine were 60 gr bullets cast of linotype and water quenched. Up through 1800 fps they held "good" accuracy of 4 MOA. I managed to hold 6-8 MOA up through 2600 fps (out of a 1 MOA rifle I consider that terrible) . At somewhere around 2700 fps 2-3 of the bullets would not hold paper. The same bullet in 1-12" twist .223 rifle that shoots MOA would hold 1 1/2 MOA through 2000 fps and 2-3 MOA through 2500 fps with the same bullet and the same loads. It still held paper at 3000 fps but the 8 - 10" groups were again, terrible.

I have two 6.5s with 1-10" twists and they also will hold accuracy to a higher velocity than the 6.5 Swede with the same bullet. Likewise my 22-250 with 1-14" twist holds accuracy to a higher velocity than the 1-12" twist .223s. I've a 1-10" and 1-12" twist .308s; yup the slower twist always holds accuracy to a higher velocity with the same bullet and same load. The 1-12 30-30 and .308 always shoot the same bulle more accuractely ate a higher velocity than any 1-10" twist.

I also have a Russian SKS and a Mini MKX Mauser in 7.62x39, both with the 1-9" twists. I also shoot 90 to 215 gr bullets in them. In the SKS the lighter 105 to 130 gr GC bullets can be pushed to 2200 - 2350 fps (equivelent to jacketed bullets of that weight) and maintain the 4-6 MOA that most milsurp ammo does out of that rifle. It will shoot 2-3 MOA 10 shot groups with Hornady 123 SPs at 2350 fps. To get that accuracy with cast bullets of that weight velocity (i.e.RPM) must be dropped to 1800 - 1900 fps (the RPM threshold for cast with that twist). With heavier bullets of 155, 185 and 215 grs the powder capacity limits them to under the RPM threshold and accuracy is in the 2-3 MOA range. The Mini MKX is a 1 - 1 1/2 MOA rifle with numerous jacketed bullets. With the 155, 185 and 215 gr cast bullets accuracy of 1 1/2 -2 MOA is easily attainable as once again the RPM threshold is not crossed. However, bump the 105 - 130 gr GC bullets above 1850 fps or so and accuracy quickly goes from excellent to good and at 2200 - 2300 fps it goes to poor for that rifle.

I firmly believe the RPM threshold to be a very real condition with most cast bullets; there is just to much evidence supporting it. Yes we can cross that threshold but what some accept as "good" or "ok" accuracy to others of us is unacceptable. As they say; "one man's treasure is another man's junk". That's why we need a common denominater of what is excellent, good and poor accuracy.

Larry Gibson

StarMetal
07-29-2006, 08:23 PM
Larry,

I disagree with you and Bass both. Let's take my Yugo 48B 8x57 Mauser. It far exceeds what you stated for accuracy standards, especially for milsurps. It seems to shoot all weights of bullets about the same. I've even shot the way up into the 200 grs with it with great accuracy. Does it have a slow twist, hell no, it's pretty darn fast twist. More in case, again, is my Steyr M95 in 8x56R, with it's odd bore and groove dimensions put it a hair from a 338. In fact one of the bullets I shoot out of it is a lee cast meant for the 338. Slow twist, hell no, again pretty darn fast. Mine wears a peeps site and consistantly shoots 7/8 inch groups at 100 yards which I think is pretty darn good for 19 inch barrel light carbine. Oh and I'm shooting Oldfellers Boxcar bullet which is plenty heavy.

I say try it before you comdemn it. That 338-08 may shoot like a house afire with cast. The only thing I'd worry about is that it has very shallow rifling, which most new modern rifles seem to have anymore.

Joe

John F. Lang
08-02-2006, 03:07 AM
Starmetal,

Just returned from SD with my friends 338-08 reamer in my hot little hand!

Now, just to find the time to stick the barrel in the little mauser and punch the chamber.......

This barrel is a 1/10 so we will see it it will shoot as well as some of the others I have put together.

The only mold I have right now is the Lee 200 gr so it will have to do to start with.

JL