c. sharps chambers and paper patching

[Gunlaker]

Hi,

Is there anyone out there sucessfully shooting paper patch in a factory chambered C. Sharps? By sucessful, I mean something like 1.5 MOA accuracy at distances of 200 yards and beyond. If so, are you patching to bore or groove?

It seems that there are some folks getting accuracy out of factory Shiloh chambers, but my C. Sharps chambers are nothing like the ones on my Shiloh.

thanks,

Chris.

[Don McDowell]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=72700

[Gunlaker]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=72700

Thanks!

Chris.

[Don McDowell]

Ubecha. I think one of Rick Mulherns big 50's is a CSA also.

[Red River Rick]

Here's Mr. Mulhern's .50 in action............"The Bastard" (the gun)!

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=61281

RRR

[RMulhern]

Ubecha. I think one of Rick Mulherns big 50's is a CSA also.

Yes sir....a CSA is what she be!!:drinks:

[montana_charlie]

Is there anyone out there sucessfully shooting paper patch in a factory chambered C. Sharps?

If so, are you patching to bore or groove?
Do you feel your question has been answered, yet?
CM

[Gunlaker]

Do you feel your question has been answered, yet?
CM

I believe it has :). I have no illusions that I'll be duplicating what Mr. Mulhern or McDowell is doing any time soon, but it looks like that chamber must work pretty well with bore diameter bullets.

I've been counting the days 'til I get time off work to head to the cabin and cast my first bullets for paper patching. Still a week or two away, but I've got a .444 diameter BACO mould, and a couple of different thicknesses of onion skin paper to work with.

Chris.

[oldreliable45120]

I've been using paper patched for years in my C.Sharps 45-120. I use a 600 graim mold from NEI. it dropes a bullet at .446 and when patched it comes out to .450. Before I load it I run it through a .450 size die to make them all the same size. I havent been able to shoot past 300 yrds (all my local range has) but it keeps under moa as long as I do my part.

[montana_charlie]

I believe it has.
Then, press on...

[jackley]

Yes I have one. C-Sharps 1875 45-90 Starline brass Fed 210 primers 2 over primer wads, 95 grs. Goex 2f dropped thru 32" drop tube then compressed .350", .060" veggie wad .030" poly wad, .125" cork wad, 540 grn. BACO PP bullet .451" 2 wraps 9 lb. paper Have shot 1" and less at 200 with it.

Jerry

[MT Chambers]

The C. Sharps all feature Badger Barrels, the best out there, and if anything will shoot 'em, the Badger will!! IMHO

[Kenny Wasserburger]

The best barrel is as only good as it's Chamber, when it comes to Paper Patching, the chamber is the real key.
As an aside observation:
I have yet to see a C Sharps in the winners circle at Nationals in some 14 plus years of Attendance. Nothing wrong with Badger barrels though, they win on other rifles all the time.

I know of Shiloh's that have set national, 1 world (now Broken), Regional records and wins and all done with Paper patch Bullets. Their barrels are made in House, and seem to shoot just as well as any others.

KW

KW

[Gunlaker]

Well, my first attempt wasn't so hot. I'm pretty sure the paper didn't come off. I noticed while unwrapping some of my patched bullets the other day, that the two layers of paper had bonded together and really stuck to that bullet. That was onion skin paper from a pad that I bought at Staples.

I'm trying the BACO paper tomorrow. I've got some wet patched and some dry, so we'll see how that works. They are definitely a bit larger. They patch to 0.452" (.444 bullet) while the others patched to about 0.450".

KW, if that C. Sharps won't shoot 'em, I do happen to have a Shiloh on order. A .45-110 with a 14lb bull barrel. I won't have that one in my hands for a couple of years though I expect :-D

Chris.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Chris,

Norma brass helps a great deal with PP loadings in the 45-110. Now a 14 lb bull barrel Shiloh sounds like lots of fun.

Keep at that C Sharps, I bet it will be just the right combo of paper-bullet that makes it a shooter.

KW

[montana_charlie]

They are definitely a bit larger. They patch to 0.452" (.444 bullet)
If you would like to try some .452" bullets patched to ~.458" I could loan you a mould for a while. It's 'available' because I just got a new mould from Red River Rick which casts a little larger.

CM

[Gunlaker]

Chris,

Norma brass helps a great deal with PP loadings in the 45-110.

KW

Well, I have definitely been paying attention to what you've been posting about shooting paper patch in this caliber :-). Although I believe you have been using a .446 bullet with thinner paper?

I found that backing off my full size die 5 turns makes for a very light sizing and a reasonably snug fit for my .452" bullets in that Norma brass.

I'll post tomorrow after I'm back from the range to see how this latest test goes.

Chris.

[Gunlaker]

If you would like to try some .452" bullets patched to ~.458" I could loan you a mould for a while. It's 'available' because I just got a new mould from Red River Rick which casts a little larger.

CM

Thanks very much for the generous offer Charlie, but I'm up in Canada, getting anything to do with guns back and forth across the border can be a tricky thing some times.

If I don't get much sucess after some reasonable effort with groove diameter bullets, I'll definitely be giving groove diameter bullets a try. I want to give the traditional approach a try, even if my chamber might be poorly suited for it.

Chris.

[405]

Gunlaker,
I've got to say in all probability your C Sharps will shoot. I don't think there is any magic in any one gun brand. Even within the same brand there are variables in tolerances and very tiny differences in all critical dimensions. Add to that the variables of bullets, loads, load techniques and shooters' skills..... it seems to all add up to NO magic. I have both a Shiloh and C Sharps. With grease groove bullets they shoot to about a draw. But with PP loads MY C Sharps outshoots MY Shiloh. Usually when someone posts a statement like I just made it usually is just so much anecdotal broad brush bandwidth. But, after a large log book full of load experimentation and countless rounds fired and trips to the range while keeping good records I am fairly comfortable making that statement for MY guns. Does it mean your C Sharps will outshoot another Shiloh? Who knows. Or, when you get your Shiloh... will it outshoot your C Sharps? Who knows. My bet is--- with YOUR OWN experimentation, deductions, careful loading, careful record keeping and good shooting skills--- your C Sharps can shoot up to expectations. Keep grinding at it!

Consistent 1 MOA groups is a good goal for these guns. However, shooter eyesight and non-glass sights do have limitations. I know I can usually keep my groups at 1 MOA or a little less at 100 yards with the Sharps and aperture sights. I also know that I sacrifice about one inch of accuracy at 300 yards due to loss of sight resolution. As the range increases so does the loss of resolution. Glass sights can help eliminate at least that one variable.

[RMulhern]

"general ramble about whatever shoots best for you, I guess. I have a Shiloh in 45-70 and CSA in 45-110 both in M1874. Also, have an original 1874 Sharps in 44-90 SBN. Also, three original Win 1885s- two in 32-40 and one in 40-70 SS. To compare one against the other is like apples against oranges. For absolute accuracy I could throw in a couple of custom high power white powder shooters- in 308 & 260- either one can shoot rings around any of the "period" guns- still apples against oranges tho.

But, after shooting a ton thru each within the BPCR category the CSA 1874 has a slight accuracy edge over both the Shiloh 45-70 and the original 44-90 Sharps. Those three will easily outshoot the three Win 1885s. Interesting that the original holds its own very well and gives nothing away to the Shiloh and many times the difference in accuracy can't be measured. To me even though the straight grip CSA 1874 in 45-110 is the most accurate... the pistol grip 1874 Shiloh 45-70 is the most comfrotable to shoot because of a little less recoil and the pistol grip is a little more ergonomic. So, what does all that mean? not much"



Gunlaker,
I've got to say in all probability your C Sharps will shoot. I don't think there is any magic in any one gun brand. Even within the same brand there are variables in tolerances and very tiny differences in all critical dimensions. Add to that the variables of bullets, loads, load techniques and shooters' skills..... it seems to all add up to NO magic. I have both a Shiloh and C Sharps. With grease groove bullets they shoot to about a draw. But with PP loads MY C Sharps outshoots MY Shiloh. Usually when someone posts a statement like I just made it usually is just so much anecdotal broad brush bandwidth. But, after a large log book full of load experimentation and countless rounds fired and trips to the range while keeping good records I am fairly comfortable making that statement for MY guns. Does it mean your C Sharps will outshoot another Shiloh? Who knows. Or, when you get your Shiloh... will it outshoot your C Sharps? Who knows. My bet is--- with YOUR OWN experimentation, deductions, careful loading, careful record keeping and good shooting skills--- your C Sharps can shoot up to expectations. Keep grinding at it!

Consistent 1 MOA groups is a good goal for these guns. However, shooter eyesight and non-glass sights do have limitations. I know I can usually keep my groups at 1 MOA or a little less at 100 yards with the Sharps and aperture sights. I also know that I sacrifice about one inch of accuracy at 300 yards due to loss of sight resolution. As the range increases so does the loss of resolution. Glass sights can help eliminate at least that one variable.