Springfield .45-70 ?'s

[DeadWood]

Have been reading (sometime's twice) Spence/Pat Wof's book and going through Poyer & Riesch's book. Would like to load and shoot my 1884 someday and still doing the "homework". Other than the 405grain Lee mold haven't narrowed another down yet to look for.

1)Is it necessary to enlarge the flash hole?

2)I would like best accuracy where Wolf was going for original loads. Does this seem to work fine for everyone or are some of you sizing .001-.002" over bore?

3)Other than the Lee 405grain mold what new/old production molds should i be looking for used?

4)If not drilling out flash hole do you still have to use LR magnum primers?

Thanks for all the advice


Will BP measure alright in my Hornady L-N-L progressive press??

[twildman]

I found Wolf's advice about primers and primer flash holes to be true by my own trial and error, being stubborn. As to bullets at or over groove diameter, forget about it. Trapdoor chambers are generally too tight for that, and reaming them out borders on vandalism. You will be shocked at how accurate your Trap can be with that hollow base bullet.
Terry

[45 2.1]

As to bullets at or over groove diameter, forget about it. Trapdoor chambers are generally too tight for that, and reaming them out borders on vandalism. I've shot about 8 different trapdoors and a large portion of the other rifles chambered in 45-70. To a rifle, they all took loaded cartridges with 0.462" boolits (two of them would accept 0.463") in WW brass. All were very accurate at this diameter also. You will be shocked at how accurate your Trap can be with that hollow base bullet. Thats not a joke..... better use of the sights will allow you accuracy beyond your expectations.

[twildman]

I stand corrected, then. As to the 45-405-HB, however, I have pushed 1 MOA with in in my '84, and others have done better. This was with 20-1 alloy, with both black and smokeless.

[oldhickory]

Will BP measure alright in my Hornady L-N-L progressive press??

Please don't measure Holy Black through your LNL measure, it's not made for black powder, it's a steel on steel measure...DON'T DO IT. Leave the measure off and use a volume measure and drop tube made for black powder, (brass or plastic).

[school of mines]

If you are looking for other molds, may I suggest the Lyman 457125. It shoots well from my 1884 trapdoor rifle loaded with Swiss 1 1/2 FG. My boolits are pan lubed w/out sizing and measure .460". I haven't enlarged the flash holes in my brass. Good luck with your trapdoor. I really enjoy shooting mine!

[Larry Gibson]

I started with Spence's original book many years ago. I was also fortunate to discuss his loads with him several times before he passed on.

I load for accuracy using a combination of Spence's methods and standard accuracy loading techniques. One criteria I load for is to be able to carry the rounds around my waist in a prairie belt. With many accuracy loading methods it is not practical to belt carry the loaded ammo.

I cast the 460500 of 1-16 alloy. This is the alloy that the arsenal finally settled on for the M81 bullet/M1882 ammo. I also have found it to provide the best accuracy. They drop at .4615" and I size to .4615" as my barrels (M1884 barrel) groove diameter is .461”.

I use a lube of 5 parts beeswax and 4 parts virgin olive oil. It is simple and it works.

I neck size cases (R-P nickel and R-P plain, I have used W-W and Fed also) and drill the flash holes per Wolf. I use a .459" expander in a Lee die.

I use GOEX Cartridge powder. I measure and throw it into the case with a Lyman 55 BP measure. For regular BP loads with the 460500 bullet I use 70 gr by weight. I compress the powder charge with a Lee compression die. It is compressed so the base of the bullet sits on the compressed powder to an OAL that allows the front driving band to be about 1/3 engraved by the lands when the breechblock is closed.

After the bullet is seated to the OAL mentioned above I use a taper crimp die to just straighten the case mouth and not crimp. The case covers about 1/3 of the front driving band.

I've done extensive testing of numerous types of over powder wads and could find no advantage to their use.

When loaded thus I have shot several 10 shot groups at 200 yards that were 4-5" ctr to ctr. It will shoot this well for about 15 or so rounds without cleaning or wiping of the bore. I do not use a blow tube. The groups will open to 6-8” for a 20 shot string and hold that accuracy all day.

For best accuracy I use a duplex load; 7 gr of 4759 with 52 gr of the Goex Cartridge over it. All the other above techniques remains the same. This load will consistently put 10 shots into 3-4” groups at 200 yards. I have shot numerous moa 5 shot groups with it at 100 and 200 yards but for 10 – shot strings for match shooting it is really a 1 ½ - 2 moa rifle. I have snuck a couple 20 shot groups into 2 moa at 300 yards with this load. This is my “walk the high desert load” for all day shoots and no cleaning or wiping of the bore needed. I have killed lots of rocks, ant hills and cow pies with this load. Of course I’ve managed to hold off the “hostiles to the front” with it. I don’t use a blow tube with this load either.

I use Federal magnum primers with the straight BP load and WLRs with the duplex load. Velocity (15” from muzzle) with the 70 gr BP load is 1120 fps. Velocity with the duplex load is 1275 fps.

Larry Gibson

[NickSS]

I have used various loads in several trapdoors using Lyman bullets 457124, 457125, and 457132. All my bullets are sized to .459. I have loaded then using the wolf technique but have also used more modern techniques with good results. My more modern loads using 60 to 65 gr of black FFG do not calibrate to the sights and I have to set them higher due to lower velocity. However accuracy at least for me has bee comparable. The rifle I shot most is an 1873 with the 1878 sights. It consistently shoots 10 shot groups of around 3 inches at 100 yards and around 5.5 inches at 200 yards. I no longer shoot my trap door rifles as I really can not see the sights so for military matches I shoot a Pedersoli Model 74 Sharps infantry rifle that I had a buffington rear sight installed on with a wider blade front sight. I can see these sights especially the rear peep sight and the same loads print 1.5 to 2 moa groups with it.