458 what twist

[Bullshop]

Have been wanting to build a serious big bore for some time. Just got a clean Win P17 action I had been serching for for some time. Had always intended for it to be a big 50 like a 500 a square but cant find anyone to do that. Any suggestions there would be good.
Am now wondering if I might settle on a 45 cal. The place I am looking at offers 45 cal in 1/14" or 1/22" twist and I cant decide.
I would be shooting only cast but boolit weight will go up to almost 600gn.
The 1/14" is pretty steep and I never understood why they went that with the 458 win. We know from bpcr that a 1/18" will spin a perty long boolit point on for a looooong ways. I think the 1/22" is what the Springfield boys settled on for the 45/70 and if so we know it will handle a blunt 500gn for a good streach too. I will likely be pushing them to 1000 fps faster than the old 45/70 so will that 1/22" handle something like my long slender 570gn modified postell from Victory molds.
Could also use some ideas on a smith to do the action work, like open up mag box, alter feed railes, bolt face and handle. Also want good quality iron sights.
Apreciate any help!
BIC/BS

[felix]

What is the intended range with the 600 grainers? ... felix

[swheeler]

James West- Wild West Guns- Old Seward Hi-Way, Los Anchorage

[Bass Ackward]

I would be shooting only cast but boolit weight will go up to almost 600gn.
The 1/14" is pretty steep and I never understood why they went that with the 458 win.
BIC/BS


Dan,

You know what you need. The problem is that 18 isn't going to permit the velocity that you speak of unless you pp.

Remember when the 458 was designed. The 14 twist on the 458 was designed to spin a solid for extreme stabilization at low velocities because a bullet on big game, slows quickly and this directly affects penetration. At the time, the 458 was considered a small bore for what it was designed to do.

[Bullshop]

Felix
For hunting as far as 200 yards. For fun as far as circling the earth. I had the pleasure of meating a fella at the Quiggley that had made up a 50 Ak on a P 17 enfield. He had made an extra long staff for his Redfield receiver sight and we were hitting the 800 yard buffalo with little trouble. Now that was fun! Course a bolt gun wasnt allowed to compete but after the match we just had fun.

Sweeler
Thanks I hadnt thought of them.

Bass
In reading an old Handloader article by Gil Sengle he had built a 450 Ackley mag on a P 17 with a 1/14" twist. He was shooting the Lyman # 462560 and shows excellent accuracy at 2118 fps from 68gn 3031. He shows a max velocity of 2334 fps with 84gn of IMR 4320 but does not mention accuracy with this load. He was casting of straight linotype. I know my Marlin will shoot well the same boolit at 100 yards but I am not shure of the twist in the marlin 1/20" or 1/22" ?
If I do go 45 cal for this I am leaning toward the available 1/22" twist.
Would still rather it be a 50 cal.
BIC/BS

[Bass Ackward]

He shows a max velocity of 2334 fps with 84gn of IMR 4320 but does not mention accuracy with this load. He was casting of straight linotype.


Dan,

Lino in a 45?

Well I shoot a lot of high velocity in 45. I had a 14 twist and I decided to build a 20 twist. Now the 14 twist was accurate with jacketed. That fast twist aided ignition from a straight case. Many sub 1/2 MOA groups. But the 20 twist shoots rings around it with lead and the key here, softer lead.

Lino? In a 45? Is that possible? :grin:

[Bullshop]

BA
Thanks thats what I wanted to hear. That was a realy early article so lino was proly easy to find. I would not be shooting any lino myself but would likely be putting some quenched WW through it. A hard nonexpanding boolit with a large meplate and heavy enough to penitrate without loosing velocity so quickly does make a long wide hole through game. But I dont like lino for the way it will sometimes shatter into dust when it hits something hard like a big thick bone. Ever see a moose bone? There is some big heavy bone in there and same for bison.
BIC/BS

[swheeler]

Dan; I assume this is from the same article. Gil talks about shooting the 462560 cast of linotype weighing 520 grs. " Accuracy is not all that bad, running three to three and a half inches at one hundred yards with velocities of twenty-three-hundred feet per second, but the rifle does much better with the five-hundred grain jacketed bullets."

If you are in Anchorage at Wild West Guns, walk across the street to Great Guns, ask if they remember accidently shooting thru the bathroom wall when a customer was in the store in 1994- I was the customer, and it didn't take me long to get out of there!
Scot

[Blackwater]

Bullshop, this isn't an answer to your question, but now that Starline is making new brass for the .50/110 and recently, the .50/90 Sharps 2.5", do you or anyone know if that somewhat larger rim of the .50's can be made to work in a P14? I know a gunsmith buddy made up a Mauser 98 in .45/70, just to see if he could make it feed, and after much ado, he found it CAN be done. If it's workable, a P14 in .50/90 2.5" would be a REAL playpurdy, wouldn't it??? I'm sure it'd be a patience tester, but .... maybe????

[charger 1]

Can I step in here and reveal my ignorance?
If the 500+ grain lead projectiles dont work so well in a quick twist (1/14") why does everybody jump up and down about lead in a 458 lott? Its a 1/14