1917 US Enfield question

[218bee]

Looking for some advice on buying a 30/06 non-sporterized 1917 Enfield. I saw one recently that looked to be original military config. It was a Remington don't know s/n. Guy wanted $550 told him I'd think about it. When I got home I started looking through some books to find out more about these and read where the only serial numbers found on these would be on the action. I remembered when looking at the one I saw it had aome numbers on the bolt handle, they did not match the receiver serial number. Anyone know why the bolt handle would have serial numbers or any numbers on it? Maybe a rebuild? I don't know. Numbers were not "electro-penciled".
Any ideas would be helpful also any tips I may want to check before considering buying one of these would be appreciated.

[Multigunner]

Looking for some advice on buying a 30/06 non-sporterized 1917 Enfield. I saw one recently that looked to be original military config. It was a Remington don't know s/n. Guy wanted $550 told him I'd think about it. When I got home I started looking through some books to find out more about these and read where the only serial numbers found on these would be on the action. I remembered when looking at the one I saw it had aome numbers on the bolt handle, they did not match the receiver serial number. Anyone know why the bolt handle would have serial numbers or any numbers on it? Maybe a rebuild? I don't know. Numbers were not "electro-penciled".
Any ideas would be helpful also any tips I may want to check before considering buying one of these would be appreciated.

You never can tell about bolt handle serial numbers, its likely a swapped out bolt, some countries stored bolts separate from rifles to avoid usable rifles being seized by guerillas. Could also be a smple case of a lost or damaged bolt being replaced by a used one.

You should check headspace before shooting just to be on the safe side. Also check the seats for setback and how equally the lugs bear in their seats. A replacement bolt may show good headspace but be bearing on one lug only.

The British usually numbered a bolt to the action only after it was carefully hand fitted and lapped to the seats and testfired. A numbered bolt may indicate that the bolt at least was one used by Britian's homeguard in WW2.

I have seen it posted on another board that an entire complement of .22 British training rifles all had the same number stamped on the bolt handles for some unknown reason, all those rifles were used by the same training facility.

When I had to replace the bolt body of a No.1 MkIII recently I chose to use an un numbered 1950's production replacement bolt, always better to have an un numbered replacement part rather than a part with non matching number. I also paid a good bit extra for a un issued fore end rather than a used take off, to be sure it didn't have a non matching number there as well.

I can't tell you if the price is reasonable or not, seems a bit high to me for a non matching rifle, but prices have gone up in recent years and prime specimens are not that common.

You should be able to talk the owner down a few bucks , citing headsace and bearing concerns, and the non matching numbers.

[fourarmed]

If it is original and in NRA excellent shape, it is probably worth that. Look at the barrel marking. It should be marked RA if original. If it is marked JA or HS, it is a WWII rework by Johnson or High Standard, and is worth a bit less.

[NuJudge]

Original finish should be Blue. Parkerized is a re-work.

Some links:
http://www.odcmp.com/Forms/M1917.pdf
http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/ref/FM/PDFs/FM23-6.PDF
http://www.highspeedlane.net/m1917/
http://www.highspeedlane.net/m1917/m1917_dimensions.htm
http://m1903.com/m1917markings.htm

[218bee]

I'm still confused as to numbers on bolt as I can find nowhere that s/n's were put on bolt handle. Maybe not a big deal but wondering why. I realize the brits and germans and russians had s/n's on receivers, bolts, magazines, barrels etc...

[missionary5155]

Good morning
And other countries put serial #´s on firearms. My Winchester 1892 SRC has a serial # stamped on the lower tang that is the official serial # with the Peruvian Gov.

[mroliver77]

My Eddystone has no # on the bolt. Just the flaming bomb and some E's here and there.
Jay

[4570guy]

If there's a number on the bolt, it was not put there by a US company or arsenal. US arms do not have serialized bolts. As alluded to above, many thousands of these rifles were provided to allies overseas during WW2 and after. Chances are that's when the number was applied. $550 is a fair price for an unmodified 1917. If you watch gunbroker or the pawn shops, you might do better by $50-$100.

[m.chalmers]

$550 is to high.
Look here:
http://www.mdshooters.com/vbclassified.php?do=ad&id=2774

[Mike Venturino]

My question would be: Does the 1917 have blue finish or Parkerized? They were blue for WWI but Parkerized if refurbished for WWII.

If still blue I'd jump at it for $550. I gave $450 for my blued Remington around 2002.

MLV

[mroliver77]

I got one from CMP last year for I think $300. on sale. Barrel was kinda dark but gauged good. I think this was a Legion gun as it is polished very smooth on the outside (very little blue left) but cruddy on the inside. It took a lot of elbow grease to clean up the barrel and the more I shoot it the better it cleans up. It really wants to shoot the 311284 (imagine that). If you ever have occasion to get close to a CMP store it is worth the trip as they have stuff on the racks not advertised online.
Jay

[218bee]

I was thinking it may have been a lend lease with the # on bolt handle. It is blue not parkerized. I don't think $550 is too bad and can prolly get it for 5 with my expertise in bargaining. But we'll see.....next time I give her a better look and bring bore light and a little more knowledge

[Multigunner]

You might check to be certain the bolt isn't from a P-14 put in by mistake.

There are differences in the lugs which should make swapping them out difficult but I have heard of M1917 bolts being fitted to P-14 receivers when rebored or rebarreled to 8mm, and M1917 receivers being fitted with P-14 bolts when rechambered for magnum or rimmed cartridges. So it can be done, though may take modifications to the bolt.

There are also old reports of .303 cartridges being fired in M1917 rifles by the homeguard, with disasterous results, the rim of the .303 shouldn't fit in an unmodified M1917 ,so some inadvertant bolt swapping may have occurred since the P-14 was also used by the homeguard.

I'd expect a P-14 to have a numbered bolt handle.

Also P-14 rifles were occasionally rebuilt using M1917 stocks.

PS
Just found a good PDF on the M1917 and P-14 history.
It states that the longer left locking lug of some P-14 bolts was not part of the bolt design till 1916, so bolts made before that may interchange with the later M1917 bolt, though I think the extractor must also be different.
So if a pre 1916 P-14 bolt ended up in an armorers shop it may have been substituted for a damaged or lost 1917 bolt.

[Mark Daiute]

IIRC the Danes put their own serial numbers on the bolts and maybe on the receivers as well but certainly on the bolts.

around here 550± is a pretty fair price for a decent WWII rebuilt Model 1917.

Keep us informed. I have a Remington and it's not pretty but it's a terrific rifle.