Discovered 303B Scout rifle build

[Canuck Bob]

See this link

http://www.wildbillcody.com/scout.htm

Interesting build of a scout rifle from a #4 Mk1Enfield.

[hickstick_10]

To each there own I suppose, beauty in the eye of the beholder and all.

BuT I'd like to add that someday then enfield supply will dry up, and they will be hard to find. Could you see someone doing that scout rifle conversion to a 30-40 krag?

Hacksawing the sights and rotary file in a hand drill for precision work.........and glued on scope base? At least when people were butchering the old winchester highwalls to make varmint rifles they were doing a good workmanlike job about it.

[leadman]

Well, this rifle had already been messed with and the barrel shortened. Don't see the harm in doing something like this to it.

That scope base is probably more solid than the one I bought for a Mosin that replaces the rear sight.

He may have problems making the 6" accuracy at 300 yards unless he spends some time handloading, but most game is shot much closer than that.

[mroliver77]

The militaries of the world should be ashamed for using up all them gorgeous guns.Can you imagine the took them out in all kinds of bad weather. Shot corrosive ammo in them and then cleaned from the muzzle with a STEEL rod and no rod guide! To top this all off, Bubba probably had the nerve to drop them when he was killed. These guns should have been shipped straight to a museum after being built! I get so tired of hearing about the "sin" of reworking a military rifle into a more useful arm by the owner of the piece.
I think the fellow made himself a darned good working rifle for a decent price. A shame to use a rotary file on a $35 plastic stock.I think I would like to have seen a couple screws helping hold the scope mount (but epoxy done right is some tough stuff!)and a better scope.
Jay

[Bloodman14]

I have no problem with it; as a matter of fact, I have a No. 4 Mk. 2 that is halfway to being a 'Scout Rifle'. I just might follow through.

[higgins]

If any of you No4 Scout builders are left with an unaltered forend or other pieces from a Canadian Long Branch rifle that you don't want to keep, please PM me. I could use a few parts.

[Tazman1602]

..........................and glued on scope base? At least when people were butchering the old winchester highwalls to make varmint rifles they were doing a good workmanlike job about it.

I got news on the "glued on sight base". If you've ever worked with Brownells acra-glas or steel bed products to bed a rifle action and didn't get the release agent proper and correct and ruined a $400 walnut stock blank you had about 100 hours in......................

...........you'd know that that scope base is now a PERMANENT part of that barrel!

Actually looks like a nice job to me, something I'd like to try!

JMHO

Art

[Four Fingers of Death]

It wold make an excellent rifle. i don't agree with chopping up pristine milsup rifles as there is plenty of sporters out there. I just picked up 2 the other day which look pretty good. One has a reasonable barrel and the other one has a fair barrel. They are SMLEs, which is what you moslty strike out here.

Woodleigh makes an excellent hunting bullet for the 303 which turns an old soldier into a serious deer rifle. They also have an awesome bullet in 8mm. But then again, cast boolits work well in these old girls.

I would have saved the singer sight and used a 2 peep battle sight with the first peep ground off to clear the scope. You would probably have to weld/solder up the remaining peep and drill a new peep hole because the second peep is the long distance one.

I also have an old Lyman peep sight for the SMLEs downstairs. I have had it for 20+ years, I knew I'd use it one day.

I did up a few 303 sporters and a K98 as a lad, I used matt black engine paint and used a couple of lights in a big wooden box to cure it. Looked pretty good I thought. My bro in law got one parkerised for me by the armourers at the air base at Richmond, it looked terrific!

I think I will rust blue the better of these two.

[madsenshooter]

To each there own I suppose, beauty in the eye of the beholder and all.

BuT I'd like to add that someday then enfield supply will dry up, and they will be hard to find. Could you see someone doing that scout rifle conversion to a 30-40 krag?

Hacksawing the sights and rotary file in a hand drill for precision work.........and glued on scope base? At least when people were butchering the old winchester highwalls to make varmint rifles they were doing a good workmanlike job about it.

Naw, I couldn't imagine anyone scoping a Krag! Why that'd be heresy, blasphemy, and probably a lot of fun too.

[KCSO]

No comments on the SCOUT rifle as I was never a fan of that anyway Jeff Cooper's only bad idea to me but... Acra glass is what we use to bond in relined barrels. I have never had one move in over 20 years of using this method and many of them are shooting competition with superb accuracy so I wouldn't knock the mount. It's there forever.

[BruceB]

Modern epoxies are incredible.

My occupation is that of hoistman, one who operates the machinery which gets everything an underground mine needs, up and down a vertical shaft. (No, Virginia, it is NOT an "elevator"!)

The scale of things has to be addressed. Our conveyance for moving men, equipment, explosives, etc weighs 18,000 pounds empty. The maximum load which can be put aboard is 40,000 pounds. The man-deck capacity is eighty people. The hoist rope is 1.75" in diameter, and breaking strength of a new rope is right at a million pounds. The weight of the hoist rope itself is over 20,000 pounds when the conveyance is at shaft bottom. The whole thing is run by a hoist with a 2,250-hp direct-current and direct-drive motor.

Why am I telling you this? Because, the rope is GLUED to the conveyance! That's right. Specially-trained and certified technicians follow a series of very careful steps to do the job, but at the end of it all, the rope is STILL glued to the conveyance. No bolts, no clamps, just a very specialized epoxy and technique. Up to EIGHTY PEOPLE riding up and down on a glue joint.

How about that?

[Four Fingers of Death]

Those big communication towers are now attached to the concrete foundations using a spray pack epoxy glue on the ancor bolts. They ain't going anywhere.

A lot of new technogy is slow to gain acceptance, especially with shooters, as most of our better guns aren't much different to stuff thats been around for 100years or more.

MIM parts are frowned on, but are invariably better than machined stuff, especially with intricate parts and investment cast rifles are mostly tougher than forgings. Go and try to engrave a Ruger some day.

The forward mounted scope doesn't press my buttons I must say, but I bouget a scope off a guy on this site which I can't mount on anything because of the ridiculous eye relief. It might end up on one of the SMLE sporters I have,

[mroliver77]

Wow Bruce! That is incredible!!
I worked on an old International dozer some years ago. It was comparable to a D8 Cat. in size. Fellow was pulling 100 foot cottonwood trees out of a creek bank with it when the winch drive shaft stripped. We could not find parts and fellow was too cheap to have it built up and resplined etc. He bought some glue a 2 part called (something) Molecular. We cleaned shaft (like a 2-3") and the inside of the coupling it fit into and glued it up and set everything back on the machine. Let it cure for a few days and fired the ole monster up. He pulled many more trees out an ruined 1.5" rope with it. Pulled 2" foundry rated (chain) chokers apart with it! I kept the leftover glue and used it to close up stripped holes in Harley cases and redrill/tap them with great success.
Funny how some love the Scout concept and others just hate it. Rarely find someone indifferent. Me, I like them although I have never handled one yet.
Jay

[Multigunner]

I'm not up on Mauser Sniper Rifles but i seem to remember that they did build a few with long eye relief scopes mounted to the stock rear sight base.
I've also seen similar mounts on 94 winchestrs. to allow for top ejection, long before Cooper began to promote the idea.

I never cared for the long eye relief scope idea, but some may find it more convenient.

[Artful]

My scouts are on Mini-14 and Mosin-Nagant M38
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/5726/dsc05652sw2.jpg
- I turned my bubba SMLE into a 45 ACP
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/6318/dsc06032.jpg

[Four Fingers of Death]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm! Now I have a nice looking SMLE sporter with an ordinary barrel, about 2000+ 45ACP cases, squillions of boolits at least two sets of dies and only one Ruger Blackhawk Convertible to shoot them through. This would make a nice little combo!

[303Guy]

- I turned my bubba SMLE into a 45 ACPUmmm.... that's not an SMLE. That's a No.4:Fire:

[Canuck Bob]

There are thousands of sporterized conversions that would make great conversion rifles. A clean original would be a mistake.

Personally, if I was a right hander I would search out one of the Canadian Ranger rifles.

[Multigunner]

There are thousands of sporterized conversions that would make great conversion rifles. A clean original would be a mistake.

Personally, if I was a right hander I would search out one of the Canadian Ranger rifles.

Bob
What have you heard of a Canadian government contract for a compact bolt action .308 carbine with folding synthetic stock?
Last I heard they planned to issue these to personnel servicing communications towers in wilderness regions as personal protection against bear attacks.
Can't remember if the action was a Ruger or a Savage, but it was all stainless steel and synthetics.
There was some concern about the synthetic stock holding up in sub zero arctic weather for extended periods.

[dualsport]

Great post! Thanks Bob. I learned something I will be able to use, namely the epoxy thing. Had no idea they could be that good. Funny I never made the connection, I've epoxied steel to concrete a zillion times and under serious structural requirements. Also, I confess I've called 'em all SMLEs many times too, just ignorant I guess, won't happen again though, I have a few of each. I like the scout rifle concept, but so far the scopes I've used drove me nuts, gotta line up behind it just so or no picture, and that's a expensive one too. Took it off. There's lots of bubba guns available cheap that are fine for re-bubbaing, I wouldn't cut up a original gun myself, to each his own though.

[35 Whelen]

No comments on the SCOUT rifle as I was never a fan of that anyway Jeff Cooper's only bad idea to me but...

I'm curious....What's "bad" about the Scout Rifle concept or design? Personally I think, like every other rifle design, it has its place. I've been an ardent hunter and gun **** since I was old enough to line up a set of sights. I've owned and hunted with rifles of every configuration except a double rifle. When I first saw Coopers idea for a Scout rifle, I decided I had to have one. I bought an FR-8 (at the time for $140!!) and went to work. When I was finished, I had this:
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/FR-8/FR-8-1.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/FR-8/FR8sight.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/FR-8/FR8groups1a-1.jpg

Although I own 15-20 rifles including single shots, levers, semi-autos and bolts chambered in everything from 22 Hornet to 358 Norma and 45-70, my Scout rifle is hands down THE most practical and THE most utilized rifle in this household:
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/Doewithcastbullet.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/GregsBuck-Dumont036cropped.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/FR8andhog-1.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/EmilysBuck11-035.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/Emilysdeer02-2.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/BuckScout1.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/Emilysbuck11-052a-1.jpg

I especially like the idea of back-up sights. I've had the experience of bunging up a scope while packed into the Rocky Mountains 4 hours ride from the nearest dirt road and it sucks.

Although not perfect for any one application, my Scout is capable of getting the job done in almost every application.

Regarding the forward scope mount, I bought mine when it was being nade in Ft. Worth by Ashley Industries. It's the same as those that Brownells sells, and I highly, highly recommend them.
If any of you plan on building a Scout, one last piece of advice: buy a good Scout scope. Either a Burris or a Leupold. I've seen the NC Stars and even tried a Nikon 2-7X LER. Don't waste your time and money. Burris and Leupold designed their scopes specifically for this type rifle and they are perfect in every way IMHO.

35W

[Bloodman14]

THAT'S IT!! I am 'scout'-ing my Mk 2!

[jh45gun]

I don't have a back up peep sight on my two scout rifles just because that was extra work and I went the scout method so I would not have to drill and tap the receiver. My K31 has a commercial made scope mount for it (Darrell's ) But for my Swede Mauser which I had cut down the barrel before to make it a sporter, I saw the old Ashley scout mount system and figured why not so I cut a short piece of pipe and cleaned it up, polished it, blued it and drilled and tapped it for a weaver once piece base and epoxied it onto the barrel where the original sight base was. It works fine and for those that wonder about epoxy that is what Ashley suggested ether that or solder it on. This mount works great and I have a 2.5x pistol scope mounted to it with illuminated crosshairs. The K31 wears a 4X with illuminated crosshairs. I would not want a scout mount on all my rifles but on these two the scout scope concept works well and I was able to scope the guns on a budget. Plus consider the fact that some guns have straight bolts and this allows you to scope with out going through the hassle of getting the bolt bent.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v454/jh45gun/KeepersCropped-1-1.jpg

[Brithunter]

Actually this idiot has destroyed an even more uncommon rifle. The rifle he butchered was a Parker-Hale Deluxe No4. There are collectors who collect the Parker-Hale rifles and the conversions that P-H did.

Oh well it seems there really is one born every minute :sad:

[jh45gun]

Your opinion guns are made to be used not objects of art.

[dualsport]

35; you're a lucky man. The smiles in those pictures says it all. Cool gun too. Thanks for sharing those pictures.--Brit, it's bad form to call people idiot on this forum.

[Multigunner]

Actually this idiot has destroyed an even more uncommon rifle. The rifle he butchered was a Parker-Hale Deluxe No4. There are collectors who collect the Parker-Hale rifles and the conversions that P-H did.

Oh well it seems there really is one born every minute :sad:

One should look into the various sporter conversions before assuming an Enfield has been Bubba'ed.
Not long ago I ran across a thread on a collectors site where many supposedly knowledgable types were urging a visitor to restore an Sporter to military trim, then one finally realized it was a rare Lee Speed.

Some of the authorized sporter like conversion were very simple, others radical reworks. Some reshaped the action body of the No.4 lowering the left wall and removing the mounting point of the rear peep sight and charger bridge entirely.

From a few odd photos and obscure anecdotal evidence its likely some SMLE rifles were altered by removing the wood beyond the lower band for use by sharpshooters.
Also some sporters and target rifles were used by the Royal Navy for blowing up mines.
So you may run into some altered Enfields that were meant to be that way, and may be rare variants.

Many Ross Rifles were also altered when used for sniping, the fore ends cut back to sporter configuration.

[Rio Grande]

I think the .303 before he 'scouted' it was much, much nicer (and certainly more elegant) than it became after.
What did he gain? A few inches off the barrel maybe was OK, but not really necessary. His scope won't really give him any more accuracy than the original peep sights and the scope won't be nearly as sturdy as that aperture. Not to mention ease of handling. And to discard that beautiful walnut English-style straight grip in favor of that ugly plastic thing!
I'm sad - I have been looking for just such a rifle as he butchered.
I'd have traded a $300 Smith and Wesson for it - now it's not worth $50.

[Multigunner]

Several years ago I saw a otherwise pretty decent 6mm Lee Straightpull offered at a very reasonable price, the fore end had been cut down above the lower band, so I hesitated about purchasing it thinking it a Bubba and suspecting other unseen alterations or abuse.
Later on I found this was a Range Rifle, one of a number of Lee Rifles altered in this way due to warpage of the slender fore wood, but kept in service as marksman's rifles and for simple target practice and training , the intention having been to restock them, but the rifle being withdrawn from service resulted in replacement stocks never being delivered.
Just as well since at about that time the fatal receiver ring failure of one of these rifles cooled my desire to own one.

[Four Fingers of Death]

The sporterised rifles are also a part of our hunting history and deserve to be kept, (especially when they are nicely done).

[Multigunner]

The sporterised rifles are also a part of our hunting history and deserve to be kept, (especially when they are nicely done).

Very true.
The Sedgley Springfields and Griffin and Howe rifles are a case in point.
Even the mass market minimally sporterized M1917 rifles once sold by mail order are a reminder of the old days. Many such rifles would have been difficult to restore at the time, with oil damaged or broken fore wood. When they had only shortened fore ends with the rest intact it at least gave them a place in the hunting grounds and civilian homes till restorations became economically feasible.

[dualsport]

I've read here about MN 91/30s being rechambered to 30-06 and sold mail order a long time ago, maybe Bannerman's? Anyone ever run across one or shot one?

[Multigunner]

I've read here about MN 91/30s being rechambered to 30-06 and sold mail order a long time ago, maybe Bannerman's? Anyone ever run across one or shot one?

There were some not very safe conversions, those where the barrel had not been set back before rechambering. There were also some safe and well done conversions with proper alterations to the magwell as well as barrels set back and rechambered properly.
A exiled White Russian Count had a small private army guarding his estates in the US. He commisioned the best of the .30-06 conversions using WW1 surplus Remington rifles that had been produced for the Czar but not delivered. Remington Mosin Nagants usually had a fairly tight bore as well, so were better suited to a .30 conversion.
When WW2 came along the old count gave the remaining rifles to a local National Guard or State Guard for use as training rifles, and some may have been used by armed guards at stategic industries in that state.