7.65 Braziltine

[StarMetal]

Yes y'all read that correctly. Unknown to all members except one I've been fooling around with a rifle I built from parts. I had a 1908 Brazilian and it's stock, then I bought a pretty good condition 1909 Argentine barrel off the Gunboard Trader complete with sights. Just to show you how close the 1908 Brazilian and the 1909 Argentine are I screwed that Arggie barrel into that 1908 action and I snugged that barrel up very very firmly with my action wrench and believe it or not the sights were dead on 12 o'clock. Even more interesting is the headspace is dead on too. Sure surprise me. Anyways the action was D&T'ed long ago so I scoped. I've been fooling with lots of loads, which weren't bad, but to me not representative of what that scoped rifle should do. Well today I found the load and with a powder that is beginning to become my favorite and that is IMR 7828. First some details. The groove on this barrel is dead on .311. I was happy about that. I'm shooting the Lyman 314299 sized to .313 and using Winchester 06 brass. The load is 34.5 grains of IMR 7828 with buffer. I haven't chronographed it because frankly I didn't think the Braziltine was going to like it. Well it did!!! In fact the son of a gun shot a 3/8 inch group at 100 yards. Here's another interesting fact. My wife got new mini blinds for our French doors and I was about to throw the old ones out when a light went on in my head "Hey, these are aluminum". Well turns out that two strips of them together through my one step check dies made some very very nice gas checks that kind of made me laugh because the blinds were dark green. I told Patmarlin about this when we were discussing something else in pm's and he said "Hell, never throw out those aluminum mini blinds". By the way they were the Levilor brand.

All in all I'm very pleased with this Frankenstein rifle. Some of the other loads I had tried were shooting in the 2000 fps range so I suspect this 7828 load will be close to that. Been trying 4831, 7828, 4350, 860, and 5010. Some of the 860 loads shot pretty good. Speaking of that 4831 I'm beginning to suspect something not right about it in the tune that I believe it's much faster then it should be. So far I don't have one single load using it that shoots worth a hoot. In talking with 45 2.1 about it I was relating how I believe it's even faster then the Accurate 4350 I have. So I'm going to do a very crude test. I know a caseful of 4350 in my AR15 with my NEI 72 grain bullet shoots at about 2500 fps. I'm going to shoot some case fulls of the 4831 and see how close it is in velocity. If it's close or faster then I do believe I have a faster lot. This might explain why looking at the many different powder burn rate charts out there why 4831 holds different positions on them. 45 2.1 told me that he is very familiar with used a lot of the original Hodgdon surplus 4831 and it was indeed slow.

[Dutchman]

The first rifle powder I ever bought was surplus 4831 for $1.50/pound. 1968.

I like both the 1908 and 1909 Mausers. My 1909 seems to like .314" better but my cast bullet shooting in the 1909 is still in it's infancy. I've done next to none with the Brazilian.

I like your new word, Braziltine. It has a magical quality to it:).

Mini-blind gas checks. I laughed at that one. You have a good mind, Joe. You look in the dark corners and listen to the voices.


Dutch

[StarMetal]

The first rifle powder I ever bought was surplus 4831 for $1.50/pound. 1968.

I like both the 1908 and 1909 Mausers. My 1909 seems to like .314" better but my cast bullet shooting in the 1909 is still in it's infancy. I've done next to none with the Brazilian.

I like your new word, Braziltine. It has a magical quality to it:).

Mini-blind gas checks. I laughed at that one. You have a good mind, Joe. You look in the dark corners and listen to the voices.


Dutch

Well Dutch, the action and stock were like I said from the 1908 Brazilian and barrel and sights from the 1909 Argentine. I figured Braziltine had a good ring to it. First thing I did was slugged that bore. You I've told you before that I have a matching number minty 1891 Argentine Engineer's Carbine, but that son of a gun has a .313 groove. Well my Braziltine is .311 on the button. Boy was I happy and even happier now that I found the load for it.

You have to watch what you may throw out Dutch. Those mini blinds slats are aluminum and not the tempered stuff. To boot the are painted so for those that quit about aluminum forms oxide which can wear you bore (which I don't go along with) my mini blind checks don't oxidize.

Probably I'm more fascinated that the barrel indexed up with the sights correctly and head space on two different models and years of Mausers and they didn't have CNC machinery back then.

Glad I gave you a good chuckle Dutch.

Pics of the check:
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg51/starmetal47/MiniChecks1.jpg

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg51/starmetal47/MiniChecks.jpg

[Larry Gibson]

I find it absolutely amazing that the m1908 with a M1908 barrel on it is A ok, top drawer and just what the world of cast bullets needs to shoot 3/8" groups with. Then Joe and the Dutchman's opinion of my Mexican M98 SR with a M38 barrel on it was that is an abomination! Strange how some look at things......

However, from my outlook I'm glad the rifle is working out for Joe.....

Larry Gibson

[StarMetal]

I find it absolutely amazing that the m1908 with a M1908 barrel on it is A ok, top drawer and just what the world of cast bullets needs to shoot 3/8" groups with. Then Joe and the Dutchman's opinion of my Mexican M98 SR with a M38 barrel on it was that is an abomination! Strange how some look at things......

However, from my outlook I'm glad the rifle is working out for Joe.....

Larry Gibson

Larry,

Another one of your famous and on going misunderstandings. If I remember correctly there were some chambering differences and/or bullet seating differences with that barrel on you Mex action. I was trying to determine if the barrel was unusual as was Dutch. Sometime about a replacement Swede barrel??? Now as far as I'm concerned I'm fine with you using that rifle for your tests. I believe it was other members that said "It's not a Swede". No me.

You misquoted the firearm too, it's a M1908 with a M1909 barrel. No biggie, just want to clear that up.

If you can shoot the groups with you Mex/Swede I'm fine, but you and I know one member that it won't set well with.

Larry thanks for the comment on the rifle working out. I'll have to post a picture of it since it's really kind of "Frankenstein" looking. Also before I put this rifle together I had a problem with the stock in that it was really bowed. It caused the barrel to shoot wild. I've cured that now with a Sako technique they use on their carbines. Today's shooting showed me that the stock is stable now.

Capicse?

[Larry Gibson]

Joe

Actually I believe my rifle was referred to as an "abortion" in that thread. By the way there are no "chambering differences and/or bullet seating differences" with the Swede barrel on the Mex action. The headspace is minimal is all. It chambers and shoots factory, milsurp and reloads just fine. The only problems were those you and one or two others dreamed up without having seen the rifle at all.

All that is really beside the point which is different barrels made for different Mausers many times fit on different actions just fine. That is what you have found. Obviously no "misunderstanding" on my part just something new to you.

Please do post a picture, I am interested in it.

Larry Gibson

[StarMetal]

Joe

Actually I believe my rifle was referred to as an "abortion" in that thread. By the way there are no "chambering differences and/or bullet seating differences" with the Swede barrel on the Mex action. The headspace is minimal is all. It chambers and shoots factory, milsurp and reloads just fine. The only problems were those you and one or two others dreamed up without having seen the rifle at all.

All that is really beside the point which is different barrels made for different Mausers many times fit on different actions just fine. That is what you have found. Obviously no "misunderstanding" on my part just something new to you.

Please do post a picture, I am interested in it.

Larry Gibson

Larry,

In that case by all means use that Mex rifle if you feel more comfortable with it. I won't knock you if you do. I'm sure you heard me say one time or another that a car engine doesn't know what carburetor is on it. I say this about a rifle barrel, it doesn't know what action it's on. Now a barrel will know if the action is true inline with the barrel or visa versa and also if all the lugs don't bare evenly...shows in accuracy. That Swede barrel on your Mex still is a 6.5, still has the same twist, same deep rifling grooves, hell use it. Look at my 6.5x54MS, it's not even a MS barrel and to boot the barrel is on a Savage action.

One plus if you are correct about that barrel having minimal dimensions is the factory brass will be more usable in my opinion.

Soon as I snap some pics of the rifle I'll post them here.

[Larry Gibson]

Joe

I am absolutely dumb founded:-)

Larry Gibson

[StarMetal]

As requested by a few members on here pictures of the Braziltine:
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg51/starmetal47/BraziltineRight1.jpghttp://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg51/starmetal47/BraziltineLeft.jpghttp://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg51/starmetal47/BraziltineClose.jpghttp://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg51/starmetal47/BraziltineButt.jpg

[Buckshot]

.............Wassup with that stock :-) My M98/08 has a 29" bbl and stock to boot. Appears that stock has shrunk a bit?

..............Buckshot

[StarMetal]

.............Wassup with that stock :-) My M98/08 has a 29" bbl and stock to boot. Appears that stock has shrunk a bit?

..............Buckshot

Rick,

I had that stock on a 20 Mannlicher before. It is the only stock I have at the present for that actions. Sure shoots though!!!

[Larry Gibson]

I think it looks pretty decent at that length, I like it:-). I'm wondering if whoever D&T'd it spaced the holes correctly for a one piece Leupold/Burris/Redfield base? Those Weaver bases have the scope too far back for proper eye relief for me. Weaver extention rings would set the scope to high for the military stock. With a "low" Leupold rear extention ring the scope could be slid forward enough for proper eye relief for me. Joe, why don't you send it to me and I'll check it out for ya....get it back to you in a few years....I promiss;-)

Larry Gibson

[StarMetal]

I think it looks pretty decent at that length, I like it:-). I'm wondering if whoever D&T'd it spaced the holes correctly for a one piece Leupold/Burris/Redfield base? Those Weaver bases have the scope too far back for proper eye relief for me. Weaver extention rings would set the scope to high for the military stock. With a "low" Leupold rear extention ring the scope could be slid forward enough for proper eye relief for me. Joe, why don't you send it to me and I'll check it out for ya....get it back to you in a few years....I promiss;-)

Larry Gibson

Larry,

That's a B Square mount. I couldn't find the Weaver one. That's where the holes were drilled in the mount. That mount has a part that fits in the clip groove to locate the mount.

I already rung the rifle out using the IMR 7828 and buffer with the 314299. This is one of my better shooting rifles. Ugly is ugly does.
I don't think it look too awful bad, it does have a gorgeous piece of wood on it as I tried to show that in the buttstock picture...lots of tiger striping.

Thanks for the kind words and you're welcome to shoot it.

[MtGun44]

You sure that isn't a Argizilian? ;-)

I does look a like you steamed the stock a bit too much.

Pretty neat that the tolerances were so consistent that you could get the sights and
headspace to set up right on. That is a sign of real quality control, not file to fit.

Actually now that I think about it a bit, I think an argizilian is what Obama's
next budget number is going to be. . . . . . . after 10 trillion or whatever.

[runfiverun]

i think an argizillian comes after a brazillian.
that rifle looks pretty cool in an 03-a3 kinda way

[StarMetal]

You sure that isn't a Argizilian? ;-)

I does look a like you steamed the stock a bit too much.

Pretty neat that the tolerances were so consistent that you could get the sights and
headspace to set up right on. That is a sign of real quality control, not file to fit.

Actually now that I think about it a bit, I think an argizilian is what Obama's
next budget number is going to be. . . . . . . after 10 trillion or whatever.

Mt, my mouth flat out just flopped open when everything was dead on including the head space. I mean come on, a 1908 Brazilian action and a 1909 Argentine barrel. Who knows how many years really between them. To say I was happy would be an understatement.

Actually the stock was bent when I got the rifle when it was a 7x57 Brazilian. Just a few inches past the forearm band she went off to the left like a dogs back leg. I later cut her to carbine length and just a tad bend was left. It's bad habits only arose after shooting enough to heat of the barrel and wood and the curve put pressure on the barrel enough to make it throw shots. I forgot to mention it was bent downward too. Well I fixed it and was relieved to see the groups it shoots now. I would have preferred the full stock look, but hey...it shoots.

[StarMetal]

i think an argizillian comes after a brazillian.
that rifle looks pretty cool in an 03-a3 kinda way

I'm glad that you, Larry Gibson, and others like it because I was rather embarrassed by it.