1917 Eddystone (Sporterized)

[Jungle Jim]

Does anyone know of an old time gunsmith who is an expert at rebuilding, removing the barrel and headspacing a 1917 Eddystone? It was sporterized sometime proir to 1956. Appears to have original barrel, but excessive headspace.
Thanks, Jim

[Multigunner]

Does anyone know of an old time gunsmith who is an expert at rebuilding, removing the barrel and headspacing a 1917 Eddystone? It was sporterized sometime proir to 1956. Appears to have original barrel, but excessive headspace.
Thanks, Jim

A trick you might try, loosen the barrel then crank it tight again several times.
A small advancement in degrees past top dead center clock in results in several thousands reduction in heads[pace.
This generally works if the shoulder of the shank is at all maleable, if not remove the barrel and trim a few thousandths off the face of the shoulder.

The M1917 shank has Ten TPI square cut threads, only a tiny amount of over clocking would do the trick. It may have been underclocked at the factory, or during a rebarrel after WW1, which would result in excessive headspace.

Should the extractor then bind a bit can be ground off to fit.

This method has been used sucessfully in the past, with barrels that allow the sights to be shifted to compensate.
When the front sight uses a key and slot to stay centered an offset key can be filed to fit.

The M1917 Barrels were cranked on hydraulically, and many have microscopic cracks in the receiver ring, some break when the barrel is removed.

A replacement bolt might be the better way to go.

Check for lug setback first, or set back in the locking recesses.

[hickstick_10]

how much excessive headspace?

[Jungle Jim]

So much that a cartridge vented and sent me to the hospital several years ago. I finally decided that I wanted to rebuild, reheadspace and restock the rifle!

[Multigunner]

So much that a cartridge vented and sent me to the hospital several years ago. I finally decided that I wanted to rebuild, reheadspace and restock the rifle!

Wow, I hope no permanent damage.
Usually if a .30-06 case splits its from a chamber worn out of the round. If the rifle was one of those sent to Britian it may have been cleaned with the pull through and wire gauze method, which if not done properly results in a "cord worn" chamber. Cord wear at the muzzle is easier to spot and only affects accuracy, but cord wear to the chamber has caused fatal blow outs in the past.

I'd consider a new barrel, but if a qualified gunsmith can save the old one by setting it back one thread and rechambering that might be okay.

I have a No.1 action I'm fitting with a No.4 barrel set back aprox 1/2 thread.

[hickstick_10]

I hope that caused no permanent damage, and glad to see your still kicking.

But a failed case can be attributed to several factors, not just excessive headspace alone, so in the interest of saving you the greif and cost of a new barrel, chambering reamer and so forth and so on. How much is the headspace out?

Just trying to cover all bases :)

[Doc Highwall]

Jungle Jim, have you taken the rifle to a gunsmith that has head space gages and the round that separated was is a hand-load or a factory round?

[Multigunner]

I can add that several boxes of Winchester .303 ammo sold here in the late nineties gave a half dozen incidents of lengthwise splits from each box when fired in five different Enfields which had better than average headspace and good chambers.
The splits never came near the casehead so no damage was done.

On examing the fired cases I found the case wall at the splits so thin I could cave it in with my thumb nail.

Mil spec .30-06 cases were found to hold up even if headspace was several hundreths greater than maximum, but of course commercial cases were built that tough, since sporting ammo isn't likely to be used in MGs.

A common conversion of the M1917 is rechambering to .300 magnum, and recutting a chamber to .30-06 improved is not uncommon.
Fired cases should be examined in any case.

If the chamber is worn but the bore good , the rifle can be rechambered to the magnum, with proper bolt face modifications. Otherwise setting it back a thread and recutting the 06 chamber is about all I can suggest.

The bolt lugs and lug recesses should be examined for set back before anything else is done.

If the barrel can be removed without damaging the receiver ring, it would make further inspections easier.

A frien blue printed old Mauser actions using a diamond wheel to true up the lug recesses before rebarreling, only a couple of thousandths removal of the surface is allowable. Don't know if the metalurgy of the M1917 allows this or not.

The M1917 is a great design, the metal very strong, but the rifles were subject to wartime production short cuts, such as the method of barrel installation which over torqued and often caused micro fractures.

PS
Heating the receiver ring till just hot to the touch has worked on several actions of various types my friend re barreled, no damage to barrel or receiver this way. It doesn't take much heat to expand a receiver ring enough to allow easier removal, about as much as a rifle would be subjected to in firing several dozen rounds in rapid succession on a hot day.
I've gotten my enfields as hot doing the Mad Minute in 90 degree weather, so hot the receiver felt like a coffee pot and oil smoked and burned off the barrel like a full auto burst from an FAL.

It amazing how much old oil and solvent residue boils out of the receiver rings.

[mroliver77]

I had never thought about it before but with ten TPI the camber would be shortened .100" by setting barrel back one turn. Not a big deal on a sporter but would prolly mess with a military configuration.
Jay

[Jungle Jim]

Thanks
Jim

[KCSO]

Here's the skinny on the Enfields...
They are an absolute BEAR to take a barrel off of, they were fitted TIGHT and the square threads and the age and rusting make them about impossible to get off. I have jumped on a 2 foot cheater on my action wrench and just bounced. I mostly have to chuck them in the lather and turn a relief ring out in front of the action to get them off. IF you can get the barrel off in one piece you just turn off a thread and re headspace, but I would't bet money on getting it off in one piece. It's almost cheaper to just rebarrel the darn things.

[flounderman]

you have not said you had the chamber checked with a headspace guage. if you haven't done that, that should be your first step. don't assume anything.

[509thsfs]

Yep, have the headspace checked. A new bolt body (pretty cheap) can also help a lot if pretty close to at least field gage specs

[GOPHER SLAYER]

An older friend who had been in the gun/machine shop / foundry business for many years told me that Eddystone was the first place impact tools were used to install barrels and that accounted for the difficulty in removing them. He said that also caused some receivers to crack.

[giz189]

An older friend who had been in the gun/machine shop / foundry business for many years told me that Eddystone was the first place impact tools were used to install barrels and that accounted for the difficulty in removing them. He said that also caused some receivers to crack. I have always been advised that the Eddystones should not be shot. I might do some investigating about this if it were my rifle. Just my thoughts.

[Buckshot]

.............They must have been talking guns where my daughter works as she called and asked if I could take a look at a rifle one of her co-workers had aquired. It was an Eddystone M1917 barreled to 340 Weatherby, and had a Leupold scope. It was a nicely and carefully done conversion with very nice wood. The guy had also sent a box of factory Weatherby ammo he'd bought for it (and paid like $60).

It only took about 20 seconds of looking it over to see a 3/4" long crack on the left of the reciever ring just above the wood line. At first I thought it was a hair stuck to it. All he wanted back was the ammo and the scope and mount. I stripped the action and gave the barrel & stripped action to 45Nut on a trip to NCBS. After taking the mounts off I found out it was an Eddystone. I don't know if it'd been shot or not with that crack, but it was a real shame as it was a nicely done rifle.

................Buckshot

[Multigunner]

I think that having any M1917 or P-14 checked for cracks before shooting is a good idea. Probably any rifle manufactured that long ago should be crack tested, I'm considering having my Enfields magnafluxed.

Awhile back on a different board I'd suggested remote test firing older Enfield rifles and the response there was ridiculous. One collector said he still fired one of his rifles though it had visible cracks, claiming the cracks had not spread. The surface visible crack isn't what does the deed, its the subsurface spreading and intersecting of the cracks that brings on failures. They didn't seem capable of grasping the concept of metal fatigue.
These were the same sorts that went off the deep end when the NRA UK issued warnings on bullet diameter and pressure levels of 7.62 and .308 if used in a converted No.4 rifle.

One thing to take into consideration is whether the rifle has a WW1 manufacture barrel or a WW2 era replacement.
Some WW1 era barrels were made from blanks that developed radial cracks during the bumping up process to increase diameter at the reinforce. If one of these cracks spreads it can split the receiver ring when the barrel fails at the chamber.
As for WW2 era barrels, the barrel itself should be fine, but a receiver ring may have been cracked while removing the original barrel

[MtGun44]

My understanding is that they often crack when the old barrel is removed due to the
really locked in barrel.

I knew of gunsmith in South Africa that used a LOT of these to make hunting rifles and
he always turned off the barrel shoulder with a lathe to relieve the stress. He said he
could almost never get a barrel out without cracking the very valuable receiver. They
were/are very popular for the basis of a custom rifle in SA. He preferred the Eddystones
for some reason even tho the others were easier to get the bbl out of. He was using
them for magnum rifles for dangerous game, too. I don't think there is anything wrong
with the action strength at all.

Bill

[quasi]

MTGN has it correct. If you have it rebarreled, have it "safety breached". This means not coning the barrel.