Not impressed Frozen Screw

[jh45gun]

Well went to scope my new Marlin Guide gun today and one plug screw was frozen. The front one in the back. Now what ticks me off is you can see the screw was put in and then machined down flush to the receiver so the screw slot was almost non-existent and you could see the edges of the screw had no gap the screw was machined right flat to the receiver. Needless to say that froze the screw into the hole. No I am not going to waste my time sending it back I mounted the base with three screws which will be enough and I used lock tight on the screws. Some day I will take it to a gunsmith and have him get the screw out. I even made a screwdriver to fit what slot was left but the screw was so soft that it just widened the slot. This kinda goof up should NOT be sent out of the factory! Considering that Marlin is moving and shutting down the plant in CT no way and I going to send the gun back and maybe play a waiting game. Like I said three screws should suffice and later I will have a gunsmith get the plug screw out at my cost. (:

[jh45gun]

Note I am talking about the factory Plug screws here. I know they do not have heads but the tops are rounded somewhat or call it concave and slotted anyway they are not flat. The three other screws heads were shiny with normal matching slots on the screw tops. the screw that was frozen was mat finished like the rest of the top of the receiver and the slot was thin and not deep. You could tell it had the same finish as the top of the receiver. I just looked at the other plug screws they were domed at the top with normal screw slots cut into them. The frozen screw in question was flat not domed and you could tell their was very little slot left and shallow which pretty much tells me that screw was put in and ground down to the receiver it looks like and then covered over with the same mat finish the tops of the receivers get.

[jh45gun]

Just talked to the local Smith and he said if the screw would not come out it would be 50 bucks to get it out. frown He did say like I figured three screws will hold the base on just fine so for now I will try out the 1.5x4.5 Weaver scope on it and see how I like it scoped.

[jh45gun]

Posted this at the Marlin site and some one there said he had the same exact issue with two of his Marlin guns. He also said he was a Mechanic and could not get the screw out of each gun he took his to a gunsmith to get the screws out. He got a better deal his gunsmith charged him 25 bucks to take the screw out of each gun.

[kingstrider]

Wow that sucks. Any chance of taking the bolt out and screwing it in through the reciever instead of out of it?

[milsurp mike]

3 screws should hold the Scope mount in place.I scoped my 450 marlin guide gun today.I didnt have any problem getting them out.I would try the 3 screws and see what happens before spending the $50.Mike

[jh45gun]

That's what the gunsmith has told me before Mike, that three screws should hold a once piece base. I used Blue Loctite on them so they should be fine. I did not have any problem getting the three out that I did either only that one is an issue. So what scope did you put on your 450? I put a older Weaver 1.5x4.5 variable on this 45/70.

[milsurp mike]

I put a Weaver k4 on my Marlin.I bought the Marlin Friday from a Guy at the Range.It is without a dought the hardest kicking rifle I have ever fired.The Leverevolution is pretty stout stuff.I got a 45-70 mold and I am going to cast some boolits for some Light loads.I hope I dont get cut by the scope I put on it.I have fired a Marlin in 45-70 and I wasnt nearly as hot as the 450 Marlin.I need to find some more brass as I only have 30 pcs once I fire all of the leverevolution Ammo:groner:It will take awhile to fire the 22 pcs I have left.No way I can do it in 1 Range session.I need to use my Arm and this stuff is a shoulder killer.Mike

[jh45gun]

Well they claim that the factory 450 is like a really HOT loaded 45/70 and it sounds like it but you should be able to tame it down with reloads.

[6pt-sika]

Hmmmm all the standard Leupold one piece bases for Marlin 336/444/1895 are only 3 screw !

I've been mounting those for years with NO PROBLEM and WITHOUT LockTite !

Mounted a couple Weaver 63B bases with only 3 screws as well and again NO LockTite !

Followed this practice with ALL of the present Marlin leveraction chamberings .

[6pt-sika]

I dunno , have had all 3 variations of the 450 Marlin that Marlin made and none was overly bad recoil wise with factory loads or my heavy hadnloads .

Same can be said for the 444 and 45-70 !

Matter of fact the FIRST Marlin I ever purchased was the then new that year 1895M in 450 Marlin !

[shotman]

I got to go with 6pt mine only has 3 screws and base has place for 5. that may be one that was drilled wrong and they just "plugged" it

[JIMinPHX]

3 screws to hold a scope????

I don't think that would pass mustard on any gun that I owned.

I think that $50 is a little steep to remove a screw from any piece of metal. I can drill & tap an accurate location for a whole lot less than that.

[hiram]

Did you try trying to loosen the screw by tapping it with a center punch and small hammer?

[jh45gun]

Hmmmm all the standard Leupold one piece bases for Marlin 336/444/1895 are only 3 screw !

I've been mounting those for years with NO PROBLEM and WITHOUT LockTite !

Mounted a couple Weaver 63B bases with only 3 screws as well and again NO LockTite !

Followed this practice with ALL of the present Marlin leveraction chamberings .

Good to know thanks much.

I have the Weaver 63B base on there. Glad to hear that three screws are not an issue I figured it would not be.

[jh45gun]

Did you try trying to loosen the screw by tapping it with a center punch and small hammer?


I did not use a center punch but I did tap the screwdriver lightly. I did not want to mar the screw anymore then what I already did making the slot wider. As long as three screws will hold the base on secure I will leave the base on.

[JIMinPHX]

Another good method for removing a screw like that, is to center punch a dimple in the center of the screw & then have at it with a LEFT handed drill bit that is below the pilot diameter of the tap size. Often, the drill bit will dig in & the screw will turn out. If not, then you can drill the proper size pilot hole & run a tap back through it. I used to use that trick a lot when people would break off the little screw that holds the ignition advance gizmo on Nortons or Big Twin Harleys. On them it was like cheating though. You had case hardened steel around the broken off bolt, so there was a natural drill guide already there. In this situation, you need to get the dimple accurately located & then be careful not to slip.

[jh45gun]

Another good method for removing a screw like that, is to center punch a dimple in the center of the screw & then have at it with a LEFT handed drill bit that is below the pilot diameter of the tap size. Often, the drill bit will dig in & the screw will turn out. If not, then you can drill the proper size pilot hole & run a tap back through it. I used to use that trick a lot when people would break off the little screw that holds the ignition advance gizmo on Nortons or Big Twin Harleys. On them it was like cheating though. You had case hardened steel around the broken off bolt, so there was a natural drill guide already there. In this situation, you need to get the dimple accurately located & then be careful not to slip.


Your last sentence is the part that scares me which is why I did not get really aggressive with the screw. Since the general consensus is that three screws will hold fine and especially since Leupold's base only has three screws that's good enough for me at the moment. I do appreciate all the replies and hints offered.

[Three44s]

Left handed drill bits ......... have been the staple of mechanics for removing stuck screws and bolts for years.

The same is true of using a very sharp center punch to tap around the edge to spin the screw or bolt out.

**********************

The penetrant I pre-treat with is Kroil.

Three 44s

[jh45gun]

I have a friend who has a shop that said he would take it out if I want it out. Might do that just so I know its not in there but for now the scope base is mounted and the gun shoots great with the scope on it.

[lead4me]

I had great luck with tiny screws by using bees wax. I take a soldering gun and heat the screw when it good an hot a touch of bees wax on top then while hot just back it out. If you have anything to grab with the screwdriver it should back right out.

[twotoescharlie]

possible that the stuck screw might already have loctite on it? try a little heat on it.

TTC

[jh45gun]

Well like I said I now have the scope mounted with 3 screws so for now its good. Thanks to all for all the tips. If not me it might help some one else here with the same issue.

[Dave Bulla]

I'm not a professional gunsmith but I have been a mechanic for 26 years in both aviation and industrial work. Until just recently, a drill and easy out was the normal process for a stuck screw. The left hand drill bits method is a BETTER way but most places I've worked did not stock them in their parts department. The punch and hammer works in some situations depending on the size of the screw and the punch.

HOWEVER, I just recently found one of the slickest ways I've ever seen. At my current job, we have a LOT of broken screws and bolts but most of them are larger than your average gun screw. Some are getting down in the same size range though. Anyway, one of the other mechanics has a Chicago Pneumatic "air scribe" engraver tool which is sort of like a dremel in looks but is really an air powered vibratory engraver. Turns out, them things are AMAZING for removing broken bolts. Simply make a divot with a punch or use an existing bump or dip if dealing with a broken screw and put the tip of the engraver against it and press and turn. It backs a screw right out! You have to keep a good angle like if you were using a punch and hammer but it's amazingly easy and fast.

What I'm thinking is that for gunsmith work, one of the cheap wally world electric engravers would be just about perfect. The air scribes are expensive at about $250 to $450 a pop but the electrics can be had for cheap and they're handy to have around the house anyway. Before I spent $50 dollars on a gunsmith, I'd try the electric scribe and see if it works. Just be careful not to let it walk off the screw head as it IS meant to mark metal.... A little patience, pressure and persistence should do the trick.

[jh45gun]

With my luck it would mark the metal. I have found with Dremel tools too to be darn careful as they can get away from you. Like I said for now the three screws will work fine to keep the base on. And I have a guy who will take it out for free if I ever decide to get that screw out which I probably will do at some time.