Hat's off to WW casters

[madsenshooter]

My hat's off to those of you who manage to get good bullets pouring WW metal into aluminum molds. Maybe my high tin alloys, iron and brass molds have spoiled me. I thought I'd give some straight WWs a try to reduce the nose of the NOE K31 boolit so I could use them in my .295 bored rifle. Couldn't get a one to come out worth squat! Well, ok, I did get 1 out of 100 maybe. I hate aluminum as a material for molds! I have my little pot over 900 degrees and the mold sitting on top warming up, but I'm still not really getting the fillout I like. I gave it up! The WWs are cooling in a ingot mold and I'll use them for making some decent alloy! The thermal conductivity of aluminum seems to be the problem, straight WWs just cool too fast in an Al mold, and this time I didn't get any contaminants either, close though, there was the biggest Zn WW I've seen to date lurking in my recently purchased box of WWs, a 3.5oz monster, luckily I noticed it wasn't melting when the one's around it were! Oh, it isn't Zn at all, it's Fe, no wonder it held the heat so long after I plucked it out of the pot! Anyway, I don't know how you guys do it, but I'm not messing with it anymore. If I'm using an Al mold, I'll be pouring a high Sn alloy. I get more velocity out it anyway, as for the K31 mold, I'll just use my Eagan MX3-30AR instead.

[Bret4207]

Got to have the mould clean and hot. After that it's just practice and finding your style.

[oldhickory]

Are you by chance using a LEE six-banger? I ladle pour and I'll admit, I'm too slow to get good fill-out with a LEE six-banger. The single cavity Rapines I have always given great boolits after just a few warm-ups, same with my single and double cavity LEES...No problem what so ever, but those six-bangers require "flying fingers" and probably a bottom pour furnace to keep them up tp temp!

I wish LEE would make a three or four cavity mold for old, slow guys like me!

[madsenshooter]

No, not a Lee at all, the NOE K31, a 3 cavity. It casts just fine with a high Sn alloy, it isn't the mold, except for the fact that it's made off Al. With my high Sn alloys however, the nose is too big for my .295 bored K31. I wind up seating it a lot deeper than others are able to seat theirs. Not a big deal, I have other bullets to use in it. The only problem with seating it deep is it causes the bullet tip to be shaved when feeding from the magazine, no rapid fire strings that way. Otherwise, accuracy is great. I know, I'll only use it in CBA matches where one has to single load! I still hate aluminum, it's a neurotoxin you know, they ought to ban it before lead.

[runfiverun]

i don't try to jeat up my aluminum molds i start them out so hot they won't let the alloy solidify.
wipe the whole mold down inside and out with a rag.
then start casting.
keeping it hot when starting out way too hot works for me.
nei 4 bangers, a bit harder to keep hot than a lyman 4 banger. unless i do it this way.

[Jon]

Smoking the mold helps quite a bit with the Lee 6 cavity molds. I usually toss the first 6 sets back into the pot to get the mold up to temp.

[ScottJ]

I've also found dipping the corner of the sprue plate that you whack with the stick into the melt until the lead won't stick to it helps a bunch.

[fredj338]

I prefer iron molds, but have no issues w/ the cheap Lee 6cavs in larger calibers with ww alloy. I run them about 750deg & just go. I rotate two molds to keep from getting too hot. I do cast w/ the spout tight against the sprue plate.

[Marlin Hunter]

CLEAN HOT lead and hot mold. About 730*F with my Lyman dial Thermometer.

[390ish]

I am able to get a good pour on a six banger lee 155 grainer 357 mould. I use a deep pot on big camp stove and dip the ladle from the bottom. If i am not really fast with it, the last hole is a loser.

[mpmarty]

I have a two cavity LEE 30cal mold that drops a nice .309 flat nose gas check normal lube groove boolit with a .295 bore riding nose. Shoots like a million bucks in my 7.5X55 I lube it with BAC in a Lyman #45 lube sizer with .309 dies to seat the check and put some grease in the grooves. I only cast with WW and air cool. I'm sure some of you guys have super better alloys that you carefully blend like a seventeenth century alchemist but I'm too lazy to go down that road. I do melt my stick on lead separately and have a separate pile of pure lead ingots on hand in case I find a use for them. Those stick on weights are a pure pain in the A$$ to smelt with all that goo coming off of them though.:holysheep

[GLL]

Why mess with the straight WW at all if it does not work for you ?

Add 2% Sn and the fill out is fine for me !

Jerry

[res45]

Well I've only been casting for about 5 months all I use is Lee molds,mainly because I'm trying to cut my cost and after a K of bullets there paid for. I start out by washing my mold block with a tooth brush and mineral spirit,then I apply a little Permatex Anti-Seize with a Q Tip to all the alignment points on top of the mold block.


Next I lightly smoke my mold with either a match or bic lighter and sit it on top of the pot to heat up. I run my Lee pot at 825 degrees usually thats what my molds seem to like and work the best at. When my melt is ready and fluxed I put the corner of my mold down in the melt to heat it up. My first couple of pours I let stay in the mold a bit longer than usual to get the heat in them. After about 10 pours sometime less I putting out good bullets from then on.

I'm using straight WW alloy with nothing added. All my molds are of the two cavity tumble lube design except for the Lee 150 gr. .309 mold which has the traditional grease grooves. Sounds like you just need to get your mold block hotter.

[sagacious]

I still hate aluminum, it's a neurotoxin you know, they ought to ban it before lead.
Aluminum is not a neurotoxin. This idea started quite a while ago when some preliminary research found concentrations of aluminum in brain-tissue plaques of certain Altzheimer's patients, and there was some question about whether the aluminum caused the plaques. The researchers had thought they might be onto something that would have a serious impact on the disease. Unfortunately for Alzheimer's patients and their families, the presence of aluminum was coincidental, and not the cause of the condition in any way. Aluminum is safe. My grandmother had Alzheimer's, so I'm up on this stuff. There is more info on the web if anyone is interested. Just thought you might want to know.

As to ww alloy, I use straight (no tin) clip-on ww alloy in quite a few LEE 6-cav mold without any problems at all. Perfect fill-out, very low to zero reject rate-- and I'm picky about fill-out and perfect bases, etc. So, it would seem to be the pouring technique, melt preparation and maintenance, or mold prep, that is the sticky wicket here.

In fact, until I learned that others had problems with ww alloy, I never even imagined that anyone would have a problem, since I never had any issues. I have taught several complete newbies to pour perfect bullets with straight ww alloy, and they pour like experts now with their LEE molds. Even using straight range scrap... no problems with LEE 6-cavs. If newbies can do it, it's the prep work and technique that makes the difference.

On occasion, or with a really stubborn mold, I'll add a 1/2% Sn to the melt. Even a little tin can make a huge difference in 'pourability' and fillout. If a properly fluxed ww melt and a properly pre-heated Al mold of known quality don't drop great bullets, the problem does not lie with the mold or the lead.

If you're only getting successful pours with a "high tin alloy" then that is a red-flag tip-off that all aspects of the pouring technique should perhaps be reviewed. It shouldn't take a lot of tin to make the mold work. This is one of those times when smoking the mold cavities really helps, as the soot forms an insulating and lubricating layer in the cavity, and that lets the cavity fill f-a-s-t, and before the metal solidifies. For this reason, those who advocate not smoking the cavities are doing a huge disservice to their fellow casters. Sometimes, it makes all the difference.

It sounds like you may have just given up entirely, but if you would detail your mold and melt preparation steps here, the problem may jump right out so it can be addressed. Otherwise, the problem will remain a mystery.

[buck1]

At first I couldnt cast with alum eaither. Now I start off hot and fast and slow to a smooth rythem and try hard to hold it.

[Jim Sheldon]

Total NOOB here, only been casting for a couple weeks, but I bought a bunch of WW ingots at a gun show for a real decent price. That's all the lead I have to cast with right now as I haven't been able to get any of the local tire stores to let go of any wheel weights.

Buddy of mine in the National Guard is on training for a month and he promised me 200 lbs of WW lead in 5 pound pigs when he gets back.

I have 4 Lee 2 cavity molds - .312-185, .395-205, .324-174 and the .358-158. I cleaned them with brake cleaner when I first got them, wiped them down with a soft cloth and smoked them with a bic lighter.

Following Lee's instructions, I let the corner of the block set in the 750-800 degree lead for about 10 seconds and start casting. So far I've only been losing an occasional one mainly due to me not getting the mold positioned right under the spout of the bottom pour furnace.

Had to recycle one batch because I got the wrinklies from getting impatient and started casting before the lead was really up to temp, but I've managed just over 500 of the 205 grain 8mm's , 300 of the .312's and a couple hundred of the 38's. All look good cosmetically and shoot well in a Mosin 91/30, a 98K Mauser and a Charter Undercover-2" bbl .38.

No complaints with Wheel Weight lead in the Lee aluminum molds at all on this end. Maybe being a noob I got beginner's luck? I just followed the directions and some of the techniques I learned from reading about others' problems here. Tried to avoid those and have been able to for the most part.

Don't give up on WW's in those AL molds, they do seem to work if you do your part.

Jim Sheldon

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

No problem with WW and aluminum molds here!!!!

Best mold I have and the best I have ever used is a LBT bold.

Had a new RCBS 405gr 45/70 mold which was not filling out very well, so added 1lb. of 50/50 solder to 20lbs of WW and everything went fine.[smilie=w:

Have a new LBT mold on the way from a group buy here at Cast Boolets, and expect great results from this new addition to my mold collection.

Saw one poster talk about cleaning a mold with mineral spirits, and that could be a problem. Better done with a much more aggressive solvent to avoid any oil film.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[tek4260]

Try a LBT and you will be singing the praises of aluminum!

[Cowboy T]

Here's what I recently did with a Lee six-cavity aluminum mould. It lets me do thousands of these in a few hours. The boolit style is Lee's 452-200-RF. Alloy is straight WW. Casting temperature is 750 deg. F.

Not sure about other guns, but Ruger Super Redhawk 454's seem to love this boolit at normal (i. e. Colt SAA-friendly) .45 Colt pressures.

It really isn't that hard. I just started casting maybe 7 months ago.

http://img155.imagevenue.com/loc455/th_68267_45ColtBoolits_WW_200grLRNFP_SideAndTop_12 2_455lo.jpg (http://img155.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=68267_45ColtBoolits_WW_200grLRNFP_Si deAndTop_122_455lo.jpg)http://img185.imagevenue.com/loc360/th_68267_45ColtBoolits_WW_200grLRNFP_SideView1_122 _360lo.jpg (http://img185.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=68267_45ColtBoolits_WW_200grLRNFP_Si deView1_122_360lo.jpg)http://img167.imagevenue.com/loc449/th_68270_45ColtBoolits_WW_200grLRNFP_TopView_122_4 49lo.jpg (http://img167.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=68270_45ColtBoolits_WW_200grLRNFP_To pView_122_449lo.jpg)

Given the mould with handles is $55 at Midway, I'd say I got a great deal. :cbpour:

[lwknight]

What is " high tin " alloy? Its generally excepted and expected that about 2 to 2.5% tin is the easiest way to go when casting in any mold.
Of course you can use 0% tin if you want to run the pot at 200 degrees over melting point but. Why do it ?
A little tin allows you to run the pot as low as just 100 degrees over melting point. The molds run cooler and cast faster with only ambient cooling.
I canot tell that 2% tin is enough to cause age softening either. And it really don't cost all that much. Some folks are so tight that they need oil just to walk.

[madsenshooter]

My high tin alloys are basically lead based babbitts. They're capable of 2450fps without leading, and pretty durned accurate at that velocity. There's as much as 6.5% Sn in them. The alloy is something I came up with after following some posts here about what it would take to get jacketed velocity with cast bullets. Sagacious, you're right, I have given up on WW casting in Al molds, don't intend to try it anymore. As to the toxicity of Al, we could ask my dad who spent 30 years in an Al factory, and ate Tums like candy, but he wouldn't be able to answer, not enough of him left. Safe, is just a part of a phrase used by the FDA, "Generally recognized as safe", for a lot of things that aren't good for you.

[armexman]

Would you be willing to part with that mold? PM me please. I too have bought that mold and when I cast and sized the bullets, I was a little worried that I would again fail in getting my K31 to shoot Pb boolits. Not happening, they came out of my particular NOE mold at .2955 and .311 and are seated out to 2.935. I was so happy that I could easily ram that cartridge into the chamber that I almost cried. I have slight engraving on the front band and a barely noticeable land marking. Saturdey I will again go to GMSC in Erie,CO and see how they do. I will post pictures and results for the forum. Please let me know if you really, really don't like that mold.

[bdutro]

A little shot of Frankford Arsenal Dropout made an impressive difference for me.

If the mold and alloy are hot enough that you can watch the sprue 'frost' after you pour, I think there's enough heat.

[madsenshooter]

No, I'll keep the mold, I found the problem, I wasn't getting up to the temp I normally was when setting the dial on my furnace to a particular spot. The heating element must be about fried. You can still get these molds via the small group buy.

[223tenx]

I sit my Lee 2 cavity on top of the pot when I turn it on and by the time the pot melts the mold is ready to go. I cast fast enough to maintain a hot mold and have no problems at all. I prefer the 2 cavity molds ( no flames, please) as I have trouble keeping a 6-C hot enough. and when you refill the pot, you have to start over with the cold mold and you really have to watch the sprue handle until the mold heats up. I have ~6 lbs. of Sn that I never use, just have it in case. YMMV.

[sargenv]

I initially had trouble with the 6 banger lee molds.. until I turned down the flow rate of the lead stream and made sure to pre-heat the molds. Instead of doing the dip into lead thing, I simply pour several casts without the sprue plate engaged.. and then I use the sprue plate to dislodge one half of the mold and I rap on the handles to get the now connected 6 boolits and sprue out of the mold. By the time I do this 4 or 5 times in about a minute or two, the mold is now up to temp and filling out bullets just fine. I keep my WW melt between 650 and 700 degrees. I don't seem to have the issues a lot of other people have. I do not smoke the mold as reccomended by Lee and I use Bull plate sprue lube once it heats up to operating temp. I've never used hot soapy water, brake cleaner, or any other solvent save the "kroil" method to prep a mold. Seems to work for me.

[Dale53]

I have iron, aluminum, and brass moulds. They all handle a bit different from on to another but I can get EXCELLENT results from any of them.

I clean all of my moulds, initially, with liquid hand soap and a toothbrush TWICE and rinse in hot water and dab dry.

Then I pre-heat on a hot plate while my bullet metal is heating. I pre-heat until they are just a bit under final casting temperature and bring the mould up to final heat by casting a couple of moulds full. I mostly use multi-cavity moulds.

I have moulds by all of the major manufacturers including our own MiHec and NOE (Lyman, Saeco, RCBS, Lee, NEI, H&G, and LBT). They all make good moulds but admittedly some are better than others. I can get good bullets from any of them.

My "normal" alloy is WW's + 2% tin. Tin DOES make a difference in ease of casting. I can get acceptable bullets from straight WW's but I MUCH prefer adding 2% tin.

My hollow point bullets may be as soft as WW/soft lead 50/50 + 2% tin. Again excellent bullets.

My casting temps run from 650-700 degrees (measured with a thermometer) except for hollow points - I cast these at 750 degrees to keep the hollow point pins hot.

FWIW
Dale53

[KCSO]

It isn't the aluminum as I have 3 Mountain Moulds from 30-45 and all cast excellent bullets first time every time. I was amazed when i poured my first bullets from these fine moulds. Even my Lee moulds will cast good slugs if prepped right although I do add a little lino to the wheel weighs even for my plinking slugs. Currently i have 3/4 1/4 mix for handgun plinking and 50/50 lino and w/w for rifles. But after having had to learn to make good minnie bullets in 58 from pure lead nothing after that has seemed quite as bad.

[pistolman44]

I use nothing but WW for casting for aluminum, Brass and steel mloulds and I have no trouble with fill out in any of these molds with WW. Standard calibers are air cooled and water droped for magnum GC calibers.