Dating a T/C rifle

[Greg in Malad]

No I don't mean a night on the town.
When did T/C start stamping model names on muzzleloader barrels. Also I've read that at one time a company in montana was making barrels and stocks for T/C.

[pietro]

[No I don't mean a night on the town.]

Spoil sport. :kidding:


[When did T/C start stamping model names on muzzleloader barrels.]

Early 1990's, AFAIK


[ Also I've read that at one time a company in montana was making barrels and stocks for T/C.]

IIRC, Douglas & Sharon both made barrels for T/C, when T/C started making Hawken rifles ca. 1970.

.

[DwarvenChef]

The model names went on when the Bbls where made by TC IIRC. Early to mid 90's would be my guess but I don't recall off hand.

I've been trying to gather Date material for TC's but not being able to get in touch with TCA has slowed me down greatly ... Oh Well...

[Greg in Malad]

I bought a .36 seneca barrel last week, it doesn't have "seneca" stamped on it, instead it has a cross stamped on the bottom of the barrel. It also has the smoothest bore i've ever seen in a T/C barrel.
I bought a .54 hawken in '87 and it has HAWKEN stamped on the barrel.

[DwarvenChef]

Did it have the QLA as well on the 54?

Seneca's are very much saught after... unfortunatly :( still too much for me but I want one :p

[Geraldo]

TC put model names on barrels at least in the early 1980s, probably back into the 1970s. The location of barrel markings has changed over the years. Also, don't get the idea that they have consistently added to the barrel stamp. I've had barrels in the same serial number range with and without model names. TC can't help even with serial numbers. The best you can get is a general idea based on known dates of purchase.

Early CVA Mountain rifles had Douglas barrels. Sharon is supposed to have made barrels for TC, but I think that goes back to very early production.

[Greg in Malad]

Dwarven,
The .54 doesn't have the QLA and I think I bought it the first year T/C blued the kit barrels. You're right about seneca prices, I paid as much for the barrel as the rifle cost new.

Geraldo,
Thanks for the info, It sounds like T/C made rifles like International Harvester made vehicles. When you go to NAPA for parts you need to know paint color, size of lugnuts, type of seat, and gear ratio, just to get the right spark plugs.

[dualsport]

If you run across one of those old CVAs with the Douglas barrel grab it. Mine was one of my first muzzle loaders and it is match grade quality.

[lonewolf5347]

barrel with the models stamped in them are made by t/c
barrels with out models stamped into them are made by other companys
The thompson center first m/l barrel were made by sharon barrel company barrels made by sharon have a spade stamped into them on the underside of the barrel behind the wedge pin slot.The next company after Sharon was Douglas barrels most of then runnning from the mid 70's to early 80's.

[DwarvenChef]

Mine has a <> / back by the breach pluggoing tward the barrel lug. No QLA :) Still haven't been able to get ahold of the TCA though... would be interesting to see what they are doing lately.

[Greg in Malad]

http://i818.photobucket.com/albums/zz110/greginmalad/100_0548.jpg

Dwarvenchef,
Here she is, with the new(used) .36 barrel. the stock was half sapwood half heartwood. So I used walnut analine dye to darken it evenly then sprayed on 4 coats of satin epoxy, not a traditional finish but it sure works good.
I went shooting today in a snow storm, I shot 2 groups at 50 yds with 30 gr pyrodex P and t/c maxi's, one went 1.5" the other 1.125". I cant wait to see what it will do on a calm day.

[Tom W.]

Mine is a mid 70's Hawken and has the T/C address and caliber stamped in the barrel, but no model name...

[Geraldo]

Greg, that looks really nice.

I think Lonewolf's statements might apply to early barrels, but not later ones. As an example, I have two custom shop 1:66" roundball barrels. The older one has no model name, which makes sense given that it's a custom barrel, the newer one is marked "Renegade" which makes no sense at all. Both of these would have been made well after TC began making their own barrels.

At this point all I worry about is the condition. If the barrel is good and the price is right, I'll buy it without worrying about how old it might be.

Enjoy that .36!

[DwarvenChef]

Looks like a real nice one :)

I just broke off a cleaning brush in a Bbl that has been sitting idle for 20 years... Seems the new bore brushes are pressure fit into a screw housing... It want down and not so much as a pop the rod came out ... sans brush part... Bugger... Up to the ranch to get the tubing again :p

[Greg in Malad]

Thanks for the idea, I've never stuck a brush in the barrel, yet, but now I know how to remove it.

[HORNET]

Greg, one problem that I found with my Seneca was that, if I squeezed the trigger guard, it would cause the rear trigger to bind and not kick forward to trip the sear. Very annoying. I squished a .32 Auto case (IIRC) and slipped it onto the brass riser section behind the rear trigger as a temporary block to keep it from moving. that was 20 years ago and it's still there. Really need to do something that looks better some day...
Mine likes a .358 RB, .015 patch, and 27 gr FFFg. Makes small ragged groups at 25 yards, good for tree rats.

[Greg in Malad]

Hornet,
I'm hoping to get the round balls shooting good this weekend. Does your seneca hammer have 3 clicks? On my rifle the first click is half cock, after the second click the hammer can be lowered to the fired position, and the third click is full cock. This is the only rifle I have ever seen that does this.

[StarMetal]

In the seventies when I had a 50 Hawkens I built from TC's kit the barrel had a normal rifle crown. That is flat muzzle with the angled crown right at the edge of the bore. Then in the 80's I noticed the crown was really radiused. Then of course they finally went to the QL type muzzle. I found the first ones shot the best for me.

[dualsport]

I have an old TC Hawken that came with two locks, percussion and flintlock. It's interchangeable. A .50 cal. Anyone else seen one of these? I've never heard them mentioned anywhere.

[Geraldo]

Greg,

TC made two lock sizes. The large was used on Hawkens, Renegades, New Englanders, etc. The smaller lock was used on Senecas, Cherokees, and Patriot pistols. The lock on my Patriot works exactly like yours. Honestly I really hadn't noticed it before, but it is something to be aware of as a slip at click number two could result in a 'boom' with a cap in place.

Dualsport,

I'm confused by your description. Large flint or percussion locks fit the same mortice, but you can't use a TC flint lock with a TC percussion barrel because the drum is part of the breechplug. If you have a drum that can be screwed out of the barrel and replaced with a touchhole liner you have an aftermarket barrel.

[dualsport]

Your description is dead on, the drum comes off and a touchhole liner goes in, then just switch the lock to the flintlock. But it is a factory barrel, marked "Thompson/Center Arms, Rochester, New Hampshire, CAL50. The serial number is K171XXX. Maybe I have the only one they made or maybe it was a factory custom/option, I don't know. I've never seen another TC with a drum&nipple. Now that I'm all curious I'll contact TC and see if they know anything. I'd like to know the story behind my gun. It has a beautiful walnut stock and nice brass patch box, but then all TCs I've seen have pretty nice wood. Can't fault their quality. Oh, mine has double set triggers and the barrel is brown. Took it on a cow elk hunt a few years back in Colorado, muffed my shot, almost straight down and shot over her back. I don't know how many times that steep downhill thing has got me, you'd think I'd remember to aim low!

[DwarvenChef]

I've only heard of a few of the convertables, very nice piece ya got there. T/C must have only made them a very short while. I see them mentioned now and again, mostly in old catologs and mags. If I see the articles again I'll let ya know.

[Geraldo]

Your description is dead on, the drum comes off and a touchhole liner goes in, then just switch the lock to the flintlock. But it is a factory barrel, marked "Thompson/Center Arms, Rochester, New Hampshire, CAL50. The serial number is K171XXX. Maybe I have the only one they made or maybe it was a factory custom/option, I don't know. I've never seen another TC with a drum&nipple. Now that I'm all curious I'll contact TC and see if they know anything. I'd like to know the story behind my gun. It has a beautiful walnut stock and nice brass patch box, but then all TCs I've seen have pretty nice wood. Can't fault their quality. Oh, mine has double set triggers and the barrel is brown. Took it on a cow elk hunt a few years back in Colorado, muffed my shot, almost straight down and shot over her back. I don't know how many times that steep downhill thing has got me, you'd think I'd remember to aim low!

The 'K' serial number of your rifle indicates it was originally a kit (as does the browned barrel). I've never heard of TC making a convertable, but I guess it's possible. Another possibility is that whoever built the kit bought a drum with the right threads and a percussion lock. My first long rifle had a Siler percussion lock and a drum, but I later converted it to flint by adding a touchhole liner and a Siler flint lock. In the end, converting back and forth didn't offer much so I left it flint and sold the percussion parts.

[mooman76]

I converted two guns. A CVA Kentucky to flint. I couldn't find a touch hole iner the right size si I had to make one but it worked. Most recently I converted a Dixie 32 cal from flint to cap lock. This time I bought a kit they sell so I had everything. It's real easy with the right parts.

[Swampman]

I just bought a .54 Hawken barrel but it isn't marked Hawken.

[DukeInFlorida]

I used to sell T/C Arms some of their trim parts. They started off as castings, and became forgings. The brass trim parts. As such, I spent a lot of time there (Rochester, NH), and had the occasion to know Warren Center. Fine gentleman!

It's been a while since I have had any inside contacts there, but I wouldn't think it dificult to get an official company explanation to the question posed. I know that my 1970's 56 caliber smooth bore Renegade has NO MARKINGS on it, either as to what model it is, or even as to what caliber it is bored out to. Last week, while trying to find a source for a mold (see Group Buy Interest Area, Miha has agreed to make a small lot of molds to produce .550" diameter balls), I had to reply on a 25 year old ball to remind myself as to what caliber the gun is. I have the original paperwork, and booklets for the gun, but that doesn't even specify what this exact gun is (the paperwork was generic, and distributed with all smoke poles that T/C sold during the 70's)

[Geraldo]

It's been a while since I have had any inside contacts there, but I wouldn't think it dificult to get an official company explanation to the question posed.

No, it isn't and it has been done on other forums. The official answer is that they lost most of their records in a plant fire some years ago, so they can't tell you much of anything.

As for what's stamped on the barrel, it's inconsistent. I've got a number of barrels, and newer ones (by serial number) sometimes have less than older ones. I have two custom shop barrels and both are marked differently. My guess is that the markings are a lot like Randall knife stamps. A friend who is a serious Randall nut, asked them how they determined which stamp got used on which blade. The answer: whichever of the three stamps the maker picks up is the one he puts on it.

[RayinNH]

You guys have me looking at my TC Hawken rifle. The barrel is marked

Thompson/Center
Rochester, New Hampshire CAL 45

This rifle was purchased in January of 1972, serial #88xx
The bottom of the barrel has an iron cross design.

[JonnyReb]

And just for the record, old thread and all..

My "1971" model Hawken has serial number 7,2xx and has double spades marked under the bottom flat. From what i've read that means a Sharon barrel.