45-70 starting load

[Tom-ADC]

I have Lymans Black Powder handbook, reading it, I'm going to try 60 grs of Goex FFg with a .062 veggie wad, Federal LRP, 500 gr cast bullet.
This is for my Pedersoli Sharps, I finally have all the components together to give these a try.

[Mike0904]

All I would suggest is some kind of compression device, compression die is best, dont use the boolit.

[Matt Muir]

I use 64g goex 2f compressed "I use my belling die " with the same veggie wad and seat my 535 gr to the top land with a slight roll crimp. This load shoots .75 inch @ 100.

Matt

[missionary5155]

Good evening
The compression of Black powder is necessary.. but you want to experiment how much you do compress. With my Rollers I find that they each shoot best with the boolit touching the lands with firmness. Thus I add or subtract powder looking for that best compression distance.

[John Boy]

Talking about compression, here's some useful information:
the Black Powder Cartridge News -2009 Fall - "Some Black Powder Compression Data" article by Bob Woodfill:
Caliber - 45-70
Lyman 457124
Constant volume of FFg powder used
Compression tested: 0" - 1/8" - 1/4" - 3/8" and 1/2"
Best 3 Shot Groups 100yds ... 5 shot groups were tested also, with the same compression values except for Goex (1/4") and Schuetzen (1/2")
Goex - 0.62" with 1/8" compression
Goex Express - 0.26" with 1/4" compression
Schuetzen - 0.61" with 1/4" compression
Swiss - 0.56" with 1/2" compression
KIK - 0.65" with 0" compression

And Tom, I would start with a powder charge of 65grs and work up to see what your rifle likes

[Don McDowell]

Worrying about compression amounts is somewhat silly. You'll need 65-70 grs of 2f to get that bullet up to a useful velocity if you're going to shoot past a couple hundred yards.
So dump the powder in compress it with what you have (the Lyman M die and Rcbs legacy expander die both work for this) seat your bullet to the depth the rifle wants it and go shoot.

[Gunlaker]

I have Lymans Black Powder handbook, reading it, I'm going to try 60 grs of Goex FFg with a .062 veggie wad, Federal LRP, 500 gr cast bullet.
This is for my Pedersoli Sharps, I finally have all the components together to give these a try.

I'm sure you'll find that BP is a blast. Just fill the case, I imagine 60gr might leave an air space between the powder and bullet. My lightest accurate load @ 200 yards is 64gr under a 525gr bullet. When I seat out to just off the lands I can easily fit 68gr with minimal compression in Starline brass, and better than 70gr in fire formed Winchester brass.

My Pedersoli shot well enough with the first loads I tried. My C. Sharps probably took a couple hundred rounds with a number of load combinations and it still needs work. Although it's plenty good for our 100m and 200m offhand shoots. The weak link there is me [smilie=b:

Chris.

[wills]

Goex is said to shoot better with compression, Swiss is reputed to shoot better without compression.

Scoop a case level full of black powder. Weigh it. That is your starting load. Droptube the powder into the case. Use your compression plug to compress the powder enough so your boolit seats at the desired depth.

[cajun shooter]

68 grs Goex Cartridge with .30 veggie wad and 535 Postell bullet. It does require a compression die. Buffalo Arms is a good source.

[Tom-ADC]

I should have added these are Starline cases and I tried 60 grs of FFg by weight comes to within .200 of the case mouth so with the veggie wad should see good compression. I do have both of the Wolf tools the case expander & the compression tool.
I'll bump up to 65 grs and see what happens. I tried the case expander out and I can seat the bullet almost by hand to what will be seating depth for the bullet, have a Lyman taper crimp die to finish.
Press is a Dillon 550 so I'll size & prime station 1, expand case station 2, remove case add powder, then station 3 compress powder, 4. seat bullet, then on my single stage press crimp.
The starting load of 60 grs is from Lymans Black Powder handbook their saying 1063 fps so the 65 grs may be closer to 1300 or so.

[Don McDowell]

If you get reall lucky in the velocity dept, 65 grs might make 1150 maybe 1200. 70 grs will get you 1200 maybe 1225.

[BPCR Bill]

Tom, I am assuming by your first post these are new and un-fired cases.. Just load them and shoot them for fire-forming. I'm guessing you have already F/L sized, trimmed, and expanded the case mouths. Most of us do not size cases after fire-forming to the chamber. You'll find you'll get more powder in them and you'll work the cases less, adding to case life. Starline has a bit of a reputation for having somewhat "Harder" brass, so I would recommend annealing the case necks. 700 degrees Farenheit for 4 seconds is sufficient. Once you have your cases fire-formed and annealed, then get down to the buisness of seeing what your rifle likes for loads and boolits. I'm not going to recommend how you load, I happen to be one of those heretics who does not compress my powder charge. (No matter what brand I happen to be shooting, though I shoot alot of Swiss)

Regards,
Bill

[Gunlaker]

Tom, sounds to me like you are ready for some fun :-P.

With those 60gr in the Starline cases, were the charges drop tubed or dumped in?

My first loads consisted of whatever charge fit in the biggest size Lee Dipper (IIRC ~ 63gr by weight of Goex Cartridge). They filled the cases to within around .4 or .5" to the top. I compressed to the seating depth (just shy of 0.6" with a 0.030 wad).

What sort of bullet lube are you using? I started with 50/50 bees wax and olive oil. I boiled the lube off of some commercial cast bullets and pan lubed to apply the new stuff. Now I use a lubriciser and SPG, but the home made stuff worked well enough for my shooting conditions (cool and damp).

Chris.

[Tom-ADC]

Gunlaker I upped the charge to 66.0, if is dropped straight out of my Lyman 55 with long tube maybe a little longer than 2" this comes right to the top of the case, I add my .062 veggie wad I'm already starting to compress the powder. I set the powder compressor die so I'm getting the top of the veggie wad .580 from the case mouth, then I seat the bullet for an OAL of 2.835.
When I go up to 70 grs I'm going to have to use my drop tube.
Going to load 20 with 66.0 grs and 20 at 70 grs and see what happens.
Lube appears to be bee wax and something I didn't cast these bought from Penn Bullets, BTW I checked a dozen for wt and they are all within .5 grs of 525 grs. I'm already wondering whats its going to be like on the other end of these as in buttplate.

[Gunlaker]

Gunlaker I upped the charge to 66.0, if is dropped straight out of my Lyman 55 with long tube maybe a little longer than 2" this comes right to the top of the case, I add my .062 veggie wad I'm already starting to compress the powder. I set the powder compressor die so I'm getting the top of the veggie wad .580 from the case mouth, then I seat the bullet for an OAL of 2.835.
When I go up to 70 grs I'm going to have to use my drop tube.
Going to load 20 with 66.0 grs and 20 at 70 grs and see what happens.

Don't worry too much about the numbers we are all tossing around here. I'd start with what fits in the case with only a small amount of compression, and then just work up slowly from there. If you put in too much and can't compress it enough, it takes some digging to get the powder back out :razz:

Chris.

[Don McDowell]

If when you crank the handle down to dump the powder in the case you do it s l o w l y, you can get well over 70 grs of 2f powder in a 45-70 case , especially if you use the drop tube attached to the lyman.

[Tom-ADC]

I just loaded 25 up later I'll try 70 grs I put the drop tube on the Lyman, I'll try the slow movement on the handle.
I did have to adjust the case expander die down a little I was getting a little bullet shaving, These are sized to .459 maybe I should have ordered .458?
This is the bullet btw.
http://www.pennbullets.com/4570/images/4570500rnpb.jpg

[Kenny Wasserburger]

The Wolf tools are an excellent starter way to get up and running with the 45-70. As others have mentioned 67-70 grs of FFg is a great place to start. BP Lube is a must though, anything else you will get less then good results.

KW
The Lunger

[Mike0904]

Stick with the .459's my Pedersoli RB likes .460 dunno bout the "red"lube on them boolits.
If ya dont get some kinda groups I'd check that out.

[Tom-ADC]

Stick with the .459's my Pedersoli RB likes .460 dunno bout the "red"lube on them boolits.
If ya dont get some kinda groups I'd check that out.

The actual bullets have a yellow bee wax type of lube, I think the red was for his early stuff. He could have done a better job of packing them a lot of the lube is all over the bullets so I've been wiping the noses off with a old towel before loading them. He did state this was BP lube.

[RMulhern]

60 grs 2F is a 'tat' weak!!

Try 78 grs. Goex 3F with a Postell and you'll grin!!