Trail Boss and the 7.62X54R out of an MN 91/30

[Jim Sheldon]

I've been playing with IMR Trail Boss powder lately, mostly in light loads, both CB and Jacketed bullets for the 8 X 57 Mauser, but I'd been using someone else's CB's for the 7.62X54R as well. I ran out of the ones I'd bought from other people, so started casting my own.

30-06guns asked me to provide my data on the 7.62X54R with Trail Boss as he's presently waiting on a couple of Mosins to arrive.

Monday, my Lee C185-312-1R mold arrived and after cleaning the oil off it, I fired up the relatively new casting pot. Made up 100 of them and since my scoped 91/30 Mosin has a real tight bore (slugs .3107), I used the lee .311 sizer and put gas checks on all 100. I loaded up fifty of them using IMR Trail Boss in varying loads. The boolits averaged 185-187 grains, so I made up some with 11.5, 12.0, 12.5, 13.0 and 14.0 grains of TB. Took 'em to the range this morning with the following results - 11.5 gr of TB gave me a 5 shot group of .855 inches at 50 yards, 12.0 gave me one a bit tighter at .502", 12.5 spread to .913" 13.0 stayed around .91 and 14.0 jumped to just over 1" at 50 yards. Looks like the 12.0 grain load for that bullet in my rifle is going to be the best one. Not wanting to take up too much bandwidth, I'm only posting the best target here. As usual, there's always one flyer that spreads the group a bit. No matter, I'm happy with it - Especially getting these results from the first boolits of my own casting that I've actually put downrange from one of my rifles.

Yup, I'm hooked!

:bigsmyl2:

[Maven]

Great target and results, Jim!

[Jim Sheldon]

Great target and results, Jim!

Thanks - not to mention it's fun doing the research. I've got some .323 GC's made up for the Mauser and it's up for the next range session with MY boolits, not some I bought from another person. I know that with Roy's 205 grain .323's and 11.5 grains of TB, the 98K Mauser produces groups just like the 91/30 Mosin did this morning. Hopefully it'll do the same with the ones I made myself. Another range session is in order for tomorrow.

:cbpour:

[Maineboy]

5 rounds in a .5" group with a 91/30? excellent! That's good with any rifle. Casting your own is rewarding isn't it?

[wellfedirishman]

Trailboss is surprisingly good with cast bullets. I just started using it for 30-30 using the same bullet as you (Lee 312) sized to 309, with and without GCs, and it works great.

[damron g]

See my post in "Need a 91/30 jacketed or cast load" I also settled on 12.0g of Trailboss.I fired a target a week ago at 100 that had a 5 shot group into1.4" and 10 shot group into 2" @100 (attached). I shot an LBT 200g Loverin looking thing for these groups with the issue sights.

George

[Jim Sheldon]

See my post in "Need a 91/30 jacketed or cast load" I also settled on 12.0g of Trailboss.I fired a target a week ago at 100 that had a 5 shot group into1.4" and 10 shot group into 2" @100 (attached). I shot an LBT 200g Loverin looking thing for these groups with the issue sights.

George

Nice shootin' George!

At 68 and with poor eyesight, I had to put a scope on my 91/30 and the 98K Mauser to even see 50 yards, let alone past that, but the rifles both shoot well with both cast and jacketed bullets.

For match shooting though, my bullet of choice in the 91/30 is the Sierra 174 grain .311 Match King BTHP with 42.0 grains of Hodgdon Varget, though that bullet shoots well with 13.5 grains of Trail Boss. I've gotten a 5 shot group at 100 yards with this particular 91/30 using the SMK/Varget load that you could cover with a dime - measured .393". Still too much slop in the trigger though. Might have to invest another 90 bucks in a Timney trigger for the 91/30 now that they've finally gotten one on the market. I did put a Timney "Sportsman" trigger on the 98K and it made a big difference over the slightly sloppy military one.

Jim

[3006guns]

Jim, thank you for the wonderful and precise information. Although more and more people are beginning to use TB for cast rifle loads, tests like yours are only just now beginning to surface with regularity.

I started with the 9 grain load as listed in the original milsurp article and found it to be so accurate I stopped at that point. This was in an 8mm Yugo that I was forced to shorten about 3" due to a counterbore. I think moving the front sight back that distance caused the gun to shoot to point of aim at 100 yds without having to set the sights at 600 yds....dumb luck! At any rate it's time to start playing with heavier loads. Edit: My birthday is coming up and I'm dropping hints for my wife at every chance...."chronograph, chronograph............"

Can't wait for those 91/30's to get here..................

[Cmasailor]

anyone see a problem with me trying to work up a load with trailboss in my 8x56R ? this sounds interesting... sorry if it's been done before and i didn't see it... been mostly hanging out on ammosmith.com lately, but I'm easing into the boolit world more and more... come to think of it, I'm going to work up a load with my mosin too, I have a lee311-155gr for x39 I could try in the mosin
Thanks :)

[3006guns]

Absolutely no problem at all....Trail Boss is designed for lead and really "fluffs up" in the case, making overcharging pretty hard to do. The 9 grn. load I started with doesn't even require gas checks, so a plain base mold would work very well. As you can tell from the above posts bigger charges are getting similar results. Trail Boss will not replace the current powders we all use, but it's one more tool at our disposal.

You should visit the Trail Boss website.....there's new info on how to calculate the amount of powder for bottle neck cases. Pretty easy!

[damron g]

jim,what system did you use to scope your Mosin,the ATI?

George

[Cmasailor]

Absolutely no problem at all....Trail Boss is designed for lead and really "fluffs up" in the case, making overcharging pretty hard to do. The 9 grn. load I started with doesn't even require gas checks, so a plain base mold would work very well. As you can tell from the above posts bigger charges are getting similar results. Trail Boss will not replace the current powders we all use, but it's one more tool at our disposal.

You should visit the Trail Boss website.....there's new info on how to calculate the amount of powder for bottle neck cases. Pretty easy!

Thanks for the heads up! man, looking at the info and articles I'm pulling up for trailboss is getting me exited, cant wait to hit the range and try these babies out!:bigsmyl2:

[Jim Sheldon]

jim,what system did you use to scope your Mosin,the ATI?

George

George,
Sorry, I missed this post yesterday as I got pretty busy getting a bunch of honey-do's done.

The mount is a somewhat obscure, "no gunsmithing" mount by a little company called Advanced Rifle Parts that seems to be a 1 or 2 person CNC machine shop. They do have a website - www.advancedrifleparts.com and he has pix of my 91/30 on the page. It ain't cheap at a hundred bux for the mount, I paid more for the mount than I did for the 91/30, but in this case it's been well worth it. I went a lilttle cheaper on the scope itself which is a BSA "Contender" 3.5-14 X 42 that cost me, I think, $127.95 from Midway. I do need to get me a good cheekpiece and a Timney trigger to round out the "Pseudo Sniper" I created out of the old Russki smokepole since it turned out to be such a good shooter.

The Advanced RP mount is nice in that it positively wont move once you get it on there. You DO need to get yourself a bent bolt body for sure as the straight handle won't clear the scope. Nice thing about Mosins though, they headspace on the bolt locking lugs and those are on the bolt head. You can change the body and all other bolt parts and not have to worry about re-headspacing the beasties. I've even swapped whole bolts, heads and all, between several of them and they still passed the SAAMI gauges. The rifles WERE all arsenal rebuilt though. I kept the best shooter of the bunch for the scoping project and passed the rest down the line.

I did the same when I saw the Russian capture 98K listed on another forum and nobody jumped on it right away. The guy selling it lived about a hundred miles from me and I went and got it. Advanced Rifle Parts only makes mounts for Mosins so I wound up having to put an ATI mount on the Mauser. It's a bit clunky, and you gotta inlet the stock for the front piece, but it turned out good and works well. Tried to talk the guy from ARP into making one for the Mauser and letting me field test it for free, but, of course, that fell on deaf ears :smile:

Jim

[beemer]

I use 13 grs. of Trail Boss with the Lee boolit in my 91/30. My rifle slugs out close to .312 and my mould pours about .313 so I lube and shoot without a gascheck.

Dave

[Jim Sheldon]

I use 13 grs. of Trail Boss with the Lee boolit in my 91/30. My rifle slugs out close to .312 and my mould pours about .313 so I lube and shoot without a gascheck.

Dave

My mold pours right at .312 and the rifle did really well with .311 sized GC's so next am going to try the .312's as cast without GC and see how they do. As I said in the previous post, haven't had time to take some to the range yet. Next week for sure and I'll post the results here when I get 'em.

All this research gives me a good excuse to shoot more (at least I've got the wife convinced anyway).

:redneck:

Jim

[Calamity Jake]

The latest issue of Handloader Mag has a artical on low recoil loads with Trail Boss and gives the info on how to develope loads.

[damron g]

[The mount is a somewhat obscure, "no gunsmithing" mount by a little company called Advanced Rifle Parts that seems to be a 1 or 2 person CNC machine shop. , QUOTE]

Thanks for the info.I like the way it looks.With not altering the gun and using another bent bolt a guy can keep the gun original.Not like they are worth a bunch of money though as you stated the mount is worth more than the rifle.Do you have to use extension rings to get the scope back far enough to see out of? The base looks short.

George

[Jim Sheldon]

[The mount is a somewhat obscure, "no gunsmithing" mount by a little company called Advanced Rifle Parts that seems to be a 1 or 2 person CNC machine shop. , QUOTE]

Thanks for the info.I like the way it looks.With not altering the gun and using another bent bolt a guy can keep the gun original.Not like they are worth a bunch of money though as you stated the mount is worth more than the rifle.Do you have to use extension rings to get the scope back far enough to see out of? The base looks short.

George

That will vary from scope to scope I'd think. The ones that I had for that BSA scope worked just right, but a shorter scope could possibly be a problem as there are only 2 locking notches in the rail. Also, the BSA scope has a spring cover plug at an angle off the left bottom and I had to notch the rail with a Dremel to get it to level out (not shown in the pix). Higher rings would have cured the problem, but the scope sits pretty high up as is and without a cheek pad (I need one) it's hard to keep steady without a heavy set of sandbags when shooting.

Jim

[Gaucho Gringo]

I have an idea and this thread seems about as good a place as any to post it. I am trying for reduced recoil 7.62x54r load using mostly what I already have paid for. I have some copper washed steel case surplus ammo. I was thinking of pulling the bullets and replacing the existing powder with Trail Boss and reseating the bullets. I realize that steel cases are generally not reloadable but do any of you think this would be possible to do? Comments either way are appreciated. Thank you.

[WILCO]

Comments either way are appreciated. Thank you.

I don't see the value in doing that unless it's corrosive ammo. Even then, you still have a corrosive primer I think.

[I'll Make Mine]

I don't see the value in doing that unless it's corrosive ammo. Even then, you still have a corrosive primer I think.

One value is that the complete (corrosive) surplus round costs less than a jacketed bullet -- comparable to a commercially cast boolit, in fact, if you buy enough of 'em at once. This method also doesn't require buying brass, powder, and primers, just powder.

That said, there may be issues with pulling bullets from surplus ammo; most if not all are sealed into the case neck in some manner, and the ones I've looked at closely (Bulgarian 1972 and Russian 1973, both silver tip 147 grain steel core/jacket) have a pretty heavy crimp, making it difficult to pull the bullets without marring them (may or may not matter for a plinking round). As noted, they're still corrosive primed, so you have to clean thoroughly after every shooting session, even a single round. Still, if you're after recoil reduction, there are some good things along this path; one to try is reloading the cases with the original powder, but use half to 2/3 as much with a little wad of polyfill (half a grain, maybe?) to hold the powder at the head end of the case to ensure good ignition (won't even use up your Trailboss, and you get a little Russian etc. military powder for other uses, if you can find data for it -- though you get two or three times as much with the Trailboss refill).

[res45]

I have an idea and this thread seems about as good a place as any to post it. I am trying for reduced recoil 7.62x54r load using mostly what I already have paid for. I have some copper washed steel case surplus ammo. I was thinking of pulling the bullets and replacing the existing powder with Trail Boss and reseating the bullets. I realize that steel cases are generally not reloadable but do any of you think this would be possible to do? Comments either way are appreciated. Thank you.

Shouldn't be a problem,I've pulled down 50's brass case Bulgarian and 70's Russian steel case ammo and never found any sealant. I used my bullet seater die to reseat the bullet down about 1/8 th inch deeper into to case to loosen the crimp on the bullet and them pulled it fairly easily. It'sa good idea to neck size the case before reseating the bullet.

I've never tried reduced loads using J bullets or used Trail Boss,I do all my reduced loads using Bullseye,2400 and Red Dot with 90 to 170 gr. cast bullets. I have Mexican Matched surplus FMJ's with SP bullets of equal or lesser weight using the original factory powder to make hunting ammo when boxer primed brass was not available or factory SP ammo cost about $1 per rd. locally.

[Ecramer]

I haven't worked up anything for my Mosin carbine yet, but I had a great experience with 12.4 grains of Trail Boss in 30-40 Krag. Next up is the 7.92 Mauser -- and then I'll get to the Mosin.

[Good Cheer]

Yall got me wondering if these Trail Boss loadings work with paper patched soft boolits.

[Tackleberry41]

Trail boss works, I worked up a subsonic load with solo 1000 as I had a big keg of it, looking for places to use it. Works in all my subsonic stuff.

The primer is the corrosive part of the ammo, so pulled steel stuff your still shooting corrosive ammo.

I have used the lyman 200gr in my mosin, shoots really well, as does the NOE 230gr for the blackout. Subsonic work great, cant push them hard tho.

[CSMR]

Very nice for a hand cast....I have the MN sniper bug...love these milsurps

[pakmc]

Hi Cmasailor, I have two of the 8x56R rifles and two carbines. I have scout mount scopes on both rifles and one on one carbine. so far my best load is about 16.5gr's of 2400. 10 gr's of Red dot is a little weak and 10 gr's of Trail boss is a little weak.I shot them last Sunday. my plan is to increase the red dot to 12-13 gr's and the trail boss about the same. "O" I pour the lee .338 bullets and after powder coating them resizing them to .334. they seem to be pretty accurate. but now that our summer is over I'll be working on uppering the powder charge on the RD and TB. with these bullets. ( I have a problem with heat!). i'd love to take one nurtra hunting down here in south east TExas. that would be fun!.

[pakmc]

if you live any where close to Houston Texas, I can show you how to pull the spent primers off of berdan cases.(it's a tool I make out of a "punch") I use to have berdan primers but they're gone now. but they are on the market once in a while. (I was only able to do rifle cases because they where large rifle primers.) I could load any large rifle cases that where berdan primed.

[Rubino1988]

Nice shooting!

[Dahonis]

Trail Boss, the magic powder that's now banned in the UK, god, my country sucks sometimes....