Paper Patching for .318 bore Mausers

[tater134]

Hi everyone I just stumbled across this forum today while browsing the net and decided to join up.I noticed a few threads about paper patching .308 bullets so they could be used in the older mausers and commission rifles with .318 bores and that got me interested.

Right now I own two Gew88s with .318 Czech barrels on them that are near mint but as you know finding .318 bullets can be very problematic so Im thinking about paper patching as an cheaper alternative since .308 bullets are more easily obtainable.

If anyone has any experience in paper patching for the older German rifles Id appreciate any tips anyone can give me.Ive never paper patched before and have only been reloading for about a year so Im still a bit of a noob but Im hoping to learn some things while Im here.Thanks ahead of time for any information you guys are willing to share.

[Beekeeper]

Tater134,
Welcome to the best forum on the internet!
There is more knowledge here than any other gun site I know of.
That said here is what I do for the 88's
I cast .312 lee C312-185-1R or C329-205-1R boolits and size them to .309.
The .329 is a pretty good stretch so I do it in 2 steps.
Helps to have all of the Lee sizing dies.
You will need to slug your bores to find out what to have for a final sizing die.


I took a Lee .314 sizing die and opened it up to .318 for final sizing There are several posts here on how to open one up so search and see.
I patch with printer paper that I wet with plain tap water and twist the tails
2 wraps of printer paper will take a .309 boolit to .319 and you can size down to .318.using a little Johnsons paste wax on your fingers to lube the patch. It also helps to shine the bore
load them and shoot them
The best load I have found yet is just what I have used to proof fire my 88's. Nothing hot just enough to fire them to ensure no set back or blow out.
I use IMR 4895 26.1 grains.
My guns were basket cases out of South America and were more rust than gun so I am taking it as easy as possible with the firing.
Hope this helps in some way.Let me know by PM if I can help


Jim

[303Guy]

Welcome aboard, tater134.:drinks:

You'll find yourself in good company here. I have just this past week-end finally harvested a turkey with my very own paper patched boolit and is very satisfying indeed! The whole process has been great fun (even to the extent of aquiring a bunch of old rifles to 'play' with). [smilie=1:

Some folks have been known to paper patch 308 j-words (bullets) to .318 for those 88's. Just knurl them first so the patch adheres. WHAT AM I SAYING! Heaven forbid! Cast 'em and patch 'em!:mrgreen:

I've learned a few tricks to make things easier for myself. Like shaping the patch to suite my particular casting, making it heaps easier to roll the patch on straight.

[pdawg_shooter]

I started PPing back in the 70s for just that reason. A friend had a beautiful pre war Mauser with a .318 bore he couldn't find bullets for. Using easy to find .308 jacketed, rolled them under a file, and wrapped with 16# paper got a fine old rifle back into the game fields!

[tater134]

Thanks for the responses everyone!Since Im not set up to do any casting yet I got ahold of some .308 jacketed bullets and used the file method to get the paper to stick.I think they turned out pretty good.Hopefully Ill get some time to shoot them out of my Gew88 tomorrow afternoon.

Is there anything I need to do differently as far as loading them? Seating depth? Crimp? Velocity?

I read a few posts saying not to crimp too much because it will cut the paper but with the en bloc clips Ill need to put a little bit of crimp on the rounds to make sure they stay together.

[303Guy]

Is there anything I need to do differently as far as loading them? Seating depth? Crimp? Velocity?Might I suggest minimal sizing of the neck and case mouth flair so's to seat the bullet with press pressure without tearing the paper? Lube the inside of the case mouth. You will be able to measure the slight expansion after seating. This grips the patched boolit pretty firmly. Hard to do if you don't have a lathe at hand.[smilie=1: Otherwise, single feed your rifle. I would use a mild primer and starting J-word loads.

I'll be watching this thread for your results!:mrgreen: Good luck. :Fire:

[tater134]

Finally got a chance to shoot the other day and the results were better than I expected.I loaded up 3 paper patched rounds to try out and all three shots were around or in the 1.5x1.5" square in the center of my target.Not bad for my first try IMO.Ill definitely be doing more testing as soon as I get a chance.

[303Guy]

.... all three shots were around or in the 1.5x1.5" square ...[smilie=w: :drinks:

Keep us informed!:D

[pdawg_shooter]

Paper gives you the full array of .308 jacketed and all the cast bullets out there. Makes the old 8mm very easy to load for.

[eagleotto]

Resurrecting here, but is there anything wrong with trying this same process for an enfield? I would like to turn .308 into .314 by patching then running through the .314 lee sizer die. Anyone done this? If so, any Suggestions on boolit styles and weights (even j-words)?

[nanuk]

From what I've been reading, as long as the Jboo is at least .001 over bore size, and you can seat the PPJboo in a fired case with little resistance, then it should be good to go.

same as for the PPCB

the variety of Jboo's give those .318's a versatility many cannot match.

What is the twist of a '88?

[pdawg_shooter]

I bought some "factory seconds" 30cals a few years back. There were a couple hundred 155gr BTHP that I patched up an shot in my SMLE. Worked fine.

[nanuk]

pdawg: did you find the same rules apply to CP as they do to PP?

[eagleotto]

Pdawg, might I ask what type of load you put behind that? Did you use lead or jacketed data?

[pdawg_shooter]

When paper patching, lead or jacketed, I start with loads listed in a guide for jacketed and work up. If you match your BHN to the velocity they will shoot right along with jacketed of the correct size. A BHN of 18+ can hit 3000fps+ with accuracy. Pure lead will handle around 220/2250pfs. I load a 311466 sized .304 and patched to .314 to a little over 2700fps in my SMLE using AA2495. The BHN on this alloy runs 15/15.5. This is my primary coyote calling arm.

[eagleotto]

Curiousity is making me ask: why did you size them to .304 instead of .308?

[nanuk]

pdawg: what is your advice on a hunting alloy hardness? I'm interested in a WhiteTail load.

I've got a couple Smelly's that I'd like to PP.

I've got a 8mm that may be used for moose. (or until I get something bigger)

[nanuk]

Curiousity is making me ask: why did you size them to .304 instead of .308?


the consensus is, for making PP work well, is to size the bare slug to .001-.002 over bore (land) diameter, and then PP it up enough to fill the throat, keeping in mind that it needs to be able to be seated in an unsized, fired case with little resistance. this is to make sure it can be released upon firing without undue pressure.

[eagleotto]

Ok, that raises another question for me, where do you find a .304 bullet sizing die? To the OP, have you slugged the bores on those Gew88s? Just curious what everyone thought about sizing boolits and bullets down from .323 to use instead of paper parching up? Just a thought.

[pdawg_shooter]

I size them .304 because my bore slugs .303. My .308 cals get sized .301/.3015 and my .458s get sized .450/.451. As for hardness it depends solely on the velocity you are using. I try for 9/12 bhn up to around 2400. 2400 to 2500 I like 15/16 bhn. I go hard for coyotes because I want NO expansion. Too hard can cause the bullet to shatter if it hits bone. As for dies I make my own using 4140 pre-threaded rod intended for truck u-bolts. You can also lap out a Lee die.

[nanuk]

As for dies I make my own using 4140 pre-threaded rod intended for truck u-bolts. You can also lap out a Lee die.


pdawg: are those U-bolts the standard 7/8x14?

[Old Coot]

pdawg: are those U-bolts the standard 7/8x14?

If they fit in a reloading press they are.

[rhbrink]

Ok, that raises another question for me, where do you find a .304 bullet sizing die? To the OP, have you slugged the bores on those Gew88s? Just curious what everyone thought about sizing boolits and bullets down from .323 to use instead of paper parching up? Just a thought.

There is a guy named Buckshot that will make you a push through sizing die in the diameter that you want. Cheaper than Lee Custom and months faster too. Thinking the last one he made for it was about 7 or 8 days from order to receiving at my house.

[nanuk]

Hey, is Buckshot a sponsor? I can't find much on him

where can I look?

or do we just PM him with an order?