.455 Webley "manstopper"

[3006guns]

Has anyone ever made a mold that duplicates the .455 Webley "manstopper"? Being sort of a double ended wadcutter hollowpoint, I'm really curious as to how complicated the mold might have been. I'd really like to see an original to see how they accomplished that bullet shape!

I have a Webley in nice shape but cut for .45 acp/auto rim and thought it might be a fun project to duplicate the load (which was fairly moderate according to what I can find out).

O.K.....laughter can begin at this point.....................................:groner:

[dubber123]

IIRC they were a hollow base, hollow point boolit. I THINK they were swaged. It would be a bit of a project to replicate. Maybe cast the hollow base, and run it into a press to swage a HP into it?

[3006guns]

Well, after my post I went looking on Lee's site. They have a very, uhhh, "respectable" boolit mold for the .45 long Colt that's basically a huge wadcutter. Their boolit for the Casull is even bigger. Talk about smack!

Now, if a guy were to cast and size, but not lube.....then place each boolit in a simple drillpress alignment jig, an ordinary hemispherical cutter run at slow speed with a set depth would form the classic hollow of the Webley slug. Lube after the operation is finished. I think the cavity at the rear might not be necessary really, especially if the boolit is somewhat soft anyway. I'm not sure how much weight would be removed, but it might be an interesting experiment.

Even if not a true duplicate, it would give an opponent reason to ponder his future in this earthly existance when faced with six torpedo sized holes staring at him.

[45 2.1]

Has anyone ever made a mold that duplicates the .455 Webley "manstopper"? Being sort of a double ended wadcutter hollowpoint, I'm really curious as to how complicated the mold might have been. I'd really like to see an original to see how they accomplished that bullet shape! They were swaged. The BritishMilitaria forum has the original spec. dimensions which I sent to Buckshot so he could make me a swage some years ago. They work, shoot and expand quite well.

I have a Webley in nice shape but cut for .45 acp/auto rim and thought it might be a fun project to duplicate the load (which was fairly moderate according to what I can find out). Mk III loading I believe.

O.K.....laughter can begin at this point.....................................:groner: Its a good project, give it a try.

[3006guns]

Ah......swaged, of course. Makes sense and must have been "cutting edge" technology at the time.

[Wildcat]

I may be mistaken, but seems to me this was recently addressed in Handloader Magazine. Scovill mentioned RCBS made a hollow base mold for the .455. He added how impressive it would be to load the boolits, hollow base forward in a .45.

[Red River Rick]

Here's a link to some good reading: http://cartridgecollectors.org/455/introto455.htm

RRR

[scrapcan]

RRR,
Thanksf or that link. I had read that somewhere else and it matches with the info I have read in other places.

[9.3X62AL]

A few years ago, there was a Colt New Service in 455 getting sold by a dealer at the range Buckshot conducted the Burrito Shoot at. I came very close to buying that critter, until die pricing focused my attention onto reality. I selected a boat as a more reasonable outlay of cash for entertainment, which says volumes about semi-custom weird caliber tooling costs. Yeah, I know--kinda subversive and un-American, but at some point reason needs to enter the equation.

Boring, huh?

[45 2.1]

A few years ago, there was a Colt New Service in 455 getting sold by a dealer at the range Buckshot conducted the Burrito Shoot at. I came very close to buying that critter, until die pricing focused my attention onto reality. I selected a boat as a more reasonable outlay of cash for entertainment, which says volumes about semi-custom weird caliber tooling costs. Yeah, I know--kinda subversive and un-American, but at some point reason needs to enter the equation.

Boring, huh?

You need 45 Colt dies to load the 455................ Shorten the seater (Lee makes them now also) and find a mold that casts a minimum of 0.455" and you have all you need. For brass, thin the inside of the 45 Colt case rim and trim it to the proper cylinder chamber length. Pretty simple considering there are other calibers out there that are a lot harder to feed.

[NickSS]

I had one of the 455 webley revolvers a long time ago (to show how long it cost me $25) It had been converted to take the ACP round in half moon clips or the auto rim round. I loved that revolver. At the same time I had a 1917 S&W and Colt revolvers and the Webley out shot both of them. Today that revolver is owned by my Brother in law.

[Throwback]

I may be mistaken, but seems to me this was recently addressed in Handloader Magazine. Scovill mentioned RCBS made a hollow base mold for the .455. He added how impressive it would be to load the boolits, hollow base forward in a .45.

Wildcat is right - very interesting wadcutter with a dome point - RCBS special offering listed by Huntington's especially for the .455and ilk.

[The Virginian]

Does NEI make a mold like this?

[john@CMA]

Hey Guys, I have also been fascinated about the old Webley MK III and Mk IV Manstoppers since my days as a Gunny at TSJC where out Instructor Leonard Bull used to tell tales about that old cartridge. I took it a step further and had Dave Corbin make me up dies and punches to make the old bullet in .452. This works great in .45 Colt, AutoRim and about any revolver you would every want to shoot it in. The hollow base upsets enough to fill any bore including the old Webley’s as I had Bob Shell test some for me in his. It is a low velocity round with it being made of pure lead for the MK III and I make the MK IV a little harder like the original. I know there is a custom mold from RCBS to make ones similar to the original MK IV which is nicked name the Flying Trash Can Lid. If you have an interest and want to try, I am happy to send a few samples or sell you some if you truly want to shoot the grand old round. It is a lot of fun and is about the only low velocity bullet I have tested that will not clog on clothing and expands no matter what you shoot it through.
john@cma

[cloakndagger]

Pm inbound john@cma

[cloakndagger]

No response from john, anyone else interested in selling a few of these?

[Ragnarok]

Buffalo Arms had/has the Webley style and diameter bullets in stock.

I bought a Webely MkVI that's been cut for .45acp last summer..then discovered the normal .45acp ball ammo is on the ragged edge of what these are proofed for.

Not wanting to batter my old 1916 vintage revolver beyond it's designed limits...I've decided to load some lead bulleted lighter loads for it myself. However too many irons in the fire..and I really have not got the '.45acp for Webely revolver' project beyond the thinking about it stage

[KCSO]

I have a hollow pint jig for my millinmg machine with a collet and thats how I make all my expirimental hollow points. IIRR the manstopper was a 265 gr bullet at about 600 fps. I shot some back in the 70's and they were so slow you could folow the bullet if the sun was right, like a looping laser to the target.

[Operator119]

I know this is an old thread and I've been reloading for a while and casting for about a year but I'm considering buying a Webley .455 Mk III Manstopper bullet mold and was wondering what I should do for a seating die. I have 45 Colt dies from Hornady that would likely work for the wadcutter flat profile of the bullet nose but my Webley Mk II dies from Lee aren't going to cut it and I have 45ACP dies from Hornady as well and was wondering if anyone has tried using a flat nose seater from one of those to seat Mk III hollow point wadcutter bullets without causing deformation during seating. Anyone have a fix for this that doesn't require machining my own special bullet seater?

[Outpost75]

I know this is an old thread and I've been reloading for a while and casting for about a year but I'm considering buying a Webley .455 Mk III Manstopper bullet mold and was wondering what I should do for a seating die. I have 45 Colt dies from Hornady that would likely work for the wadcutter flat profile of the bullet nose but my Webley Mk II dies from Lee aren't going to cut it and I have 45ACP dies from Hornady as well and was wondering if anyone has tried using a flat nose seater from one of those to seat Mk III hollow point wadcutter bullets without causing deformation during seating. Anyone have a fix for this that doesn't require machining my own special bullet seater?

I use an old RCBS .45 Auto Rim roll crimp seater which has a wadcutter seating plug. I also use the longer 0.87" Mk1 cases from Reed's Custom Ammo, because they reduce bullet jump in the Webley chamber, compared to the shorter Starline, Hornady or Fiocchi Mk2 cases.

[Operator119]

I use an old RCBS .45 Auto Rim roll crimp seater which has a wadcutter seating plug. I also use the longer 0.87" Mk1 cases from Reed's Custom Ammo, because they reduce bullet jump in the Webley chamber, compared to the shorter Starline, Hornady or Fiocchi Mk2 cases.

Good to know that is an option. Currently I have 100 rounds of the Mk II brass so I was hoping to get something working with that but maybe I can pick up some of the longer Mk I brass to try with this. I'm guessing its gonna take some experimentation either way. I'm just trying to save a little coin by seeing who has the easiest setup and hopefully using some dies that I already have available to me without hardly any modification.

[Outpost75]

Good to know that is an option. Currently I have 100 rounds of the Mk II brass so I was hoping to get something working with that but maybe I can pick up some of the longer Mk I brass to try with this. I'm guessing its gonna take some experimentation either way. I'm just trying to save a little coin by seeing who has the easiest setup and hopefully using some dies that I already have available to me without hardly any modification.

.45 GAP dies will work with Mk2 cases, if you can live with a taper crimp.

[one-eyed fat man]

Ah......swaged, of course. Makes sense and must have been "cutting edge" technology at the time.

The Pritchett bullets for the P53 Enfield musket were swaged. One reason British cartridges were preferred by soldiers on both sides of the Civil War.

[Harry O]

I seem to remember reading in "Handloading" magazine some time ago that shooting the stock standard .45ACP in a Webley was the same as shooting a .455 proof load in it every time you pull the trigger. The .455 was loaded to lower pressures. I have seen a few .455's Webleys (very few), but there seem to be more Colt and S&W 1917's in that caliber, at least around here. At least I know that they could handle .45ACP's without any worry.

[Outpost75]

Rechambering the French Ordnance revolver to .45 ACP, as was sometimes done during WW2, does the same thing, can't upload picture of blown cylinder from my phone, but will try later.

233402


I seem to remember reading in "Handloading" magazine some time ago that shooting the stock standard .45ACP in a Webley was the same as shooting a .455 proof load in it every time you pull the trigger. The .455 was loaded to lower pressures. I have seen a few .455's Webleys (very few), but there seem to be more Colt and S&W 1917's in that caliber, at least around here. At least I know that they could handle .45ACP's without any worry.

233403 Safe .455 load data from Larry Gibson.

[Operator119]

I remember reading that as well. If I had one with a shaved cylinder I'd load it fairly light. But I have an unshaved .455 so I am gonna try an either modify my seating die or use the flat nosed seating die from either my 45LC or 45ACP die set to seat the bullets without deforming them.

[Firehand]

Matt's Bullets makes a hollow-base wadcutter for .45 Colt (https://www.mattsbullets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=68_82&products_id=272&zenid=7gaht9o06eji644vqrnhj1q0l4) that shoots quite well in .455. If you had the equipment would be fairly easy to mill a bit of a hollow in the nose.

[nhithaca]

I believe Matt's just says to turn their HBWC around and use a hollow points. They look deadly.

[PB234]

These are worth a look. www.buffaloarms.com/455-250-grain-rn-cupped-base-swaged-lead-bullets-box-of-100-455250hb

This too, an active buy now going on.http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?381328-ACTIVE-N-O-E-454-276-SWC-quot-Elmer-Keith-quot-Available-in-HP-Hollow-Base-and-Solid

[SwissShooter]

Lee makes a fine 3 die 445 Webley die set. If you wish to duplicate manstopper performance, just load a hollow base wadcutter backwards. The 455 is rather anemic in today's world. But fun to shoot as recoil is very low.

[photomicftn]

I had Dave Corbin make me an ‘ M’ die set to swage these; basically, it was a HB nose and base punch set, to which I added a 1-E point former to slightly close the resultant huge cup point. Pure lead of course, and tricky to seat without deformation. A fun project back in the day when I had a few Webley .455’s.

[Dutchman]

259957

[ddixie884]

I think Charter should chamber the Bulldog XL in .455. Maybe in .45 Cowboy. .45Colt seems like overkill in a pocket gun. JMHO-YMMV.......

[USSR]

259957

Miha did a group buy on the Webley Mk IV a couple of years ago. I got one and it is an awesome bullet.

Don