lowest CB .30 vel. for hunting?

[africa]

Good day, gentlemen.

Couple o' buddies and myself have been talking about minimum muzzle vel. in a .30 cal rifle acceptable for hunting game up to whitetails, cast, of course, shots up to 100 yds. One says nothing short of 2000 fps is usable, other argues that 'a hole is a hole', and 1500 fps would be enough. We are assuming no bullet fragmentation should occur.
Your opinions will be much appreciated.

[Bass Ackward]

Africa,

Too wide of a subject. Using what hardness? What bullet design? Round nose, spitzer, or flat? What weight?

But since you can kill a deer with a 22LR, a hole is a hole is a hole. But is there a humanity factor involved?

[waksupi]

I've killed several whitetail bucks with 6.5 cast bullets. Maybe doing 1400-1500 when they hit. Sail right on through. I imagine the .30 will do the same!

[45 2.1]

I've killed lots of small game with a very soft 30 caliber boolit at 1500 fps. It kills very well provided it is put in the right place.

[redbear705]

I've killed several whitetail bucks with 6.5 cast bullets. Maybe doing 1400-1500 when they hit. Sail right on through. I imagine the .30 will do the same!



I have shot a young deer at 25 yds with my 45acp colt government using federal hydra shok 230gr bullets.(less then 850fps)....I wanted to see how the bullet performed on live flesh but the darned bullet went through the rib,through the lungs nicked the heart hit another rib on the way out and just kept on going.....Dang it...I wanted to see what it would do!

:)

JR

[redbear705]

Actually I guess I did see! Over penetration!

:)

JR

[heathydee]

I have shot several feral goats and a smallish pig recently using a 160 gn boolit at about 1700 fps out of a Brno Fox re-barrelled to .30 Carbine. One pill was recovered having travelled through about 18" of goat from the neck to the haunch.It still weighed 150 gns. The gas check was lost. All animals shot dropped on the spot apart from the pig which was anchored with a head shot which missed the brain and then required a finisher. No shot was taken at more than about 90 yards.
Heath

[6pt-sika]

This past hunting season I used a Marlin 1893 in 32-40 to take a small buck . I used the RCBS 32-170GC mould cast from WW"S . My load might have been doing about 1300FPS .
And I had no problem killing that deer :drinks:

[Junior1942]

I've probably killed 30 wild hogs with the Lee 358-140-SWC cast in ww alloy and going about 1400 fps from a Rossi Model 92.

[africa]

Next Sunday I have a meeting with some feral goats. If they show themselves, I intend to greet one of them with a 170 gr. Lyman#31141 cast with n. 2 alloy fired from a nice BRNO .308 at a muzzle vel. of 1700 fps, and will post about.

[rbstern]

I've probably killed 30 wild hogs with the Lee 358-140-SWC cast in ww alloy and going about 1400 fps from a Rossi Model 92.

Junior, did they go right through? Any recovered bullets? How'd they look?

I'm interested to know more about how wheel weight cast from 357 mag lever guns do with game.

[africa]

Rbstern, I've been shooting/hunting with Rossi 92 .357 mag. carbines along 20 years. Never used nothing lighter than 158 gr. casts on them. Those 158s at 1800 fps. are accurate in my carbines, and as far as game up to whitetails go, only recovered a couple of them from frontal shots. Used also some 180s. At 1550 fps are a bit less accurate (2 inches @ 50 yds, 5 shots) but penetrate like a drill. I used/use them in wildhogs. Never made a frontal shot at them pigs, or recovered any bullet. Fast killers, both weights. Those recovered (158s) showed incipient mushrooming. Alll cast from n. 2 alloy, sized .358, lubed with liquid Alox.
Use peep sights. Improovement in practical accuracy is remarkable, chiefly for 59 year old eyes.
Hope this helps.

[Junior1942]

Junior, did they go right through? Any recovered bullets? How'd they look?It's been 20 years, but as best I remember all the sideways head shots went through. A few were head-on shots but the bullets went with the gut pile. I don't remember a single hog running more than a few feet. Some of them were bayed with dogs, and even with adrenaline flowing they dropped where they stood.

[KCSO]

I will only comment that the 32-40 was considered one of the best deer rounds in the old days. A 32-40 shot a 175 to 220 grain bullet from 1700 to about 1450 fps. I shoot a 220 grain rnfp slug at 1950 and it has always gotten the job done. I can't see that losing 200 fps velocity would make a whole lot of difference as long as the hole is in the right spot.

[6pt-sika]

I will only comment that the 32-40 was considered one of the best deer rounds in the old days. A 32-40 shot a 175 to 220 grain bullet from 1700 to about 1450 fps. I shoot a 220 grain rnfp slug at 1950 and it has always gotten the job done. I can't see that losing 200 fps velocity would make a whole lot of difference as long as the hole is in the right spot.


I've had the same results with the 30-30 , 32 Speciel , 38-55 and 35 REM using cast and mild loads . As I did with the 32-40 [smilie=1:

I have three additional calibers in old levers I want to try this year on WT's ; 33WCF , 38-56 WCF and 40-65WCF . Luckily the moulds I use for the 38-55 will work in the 38-56 . I already had a mould for the 40-65 . And thanks to another poster here I was able to acquire a mould for the 33 . :drinks:


:castmine:

[KCSO]

Look in Shooting Times ? this month they had an article on the 32-40.

[6pt-sika]

Look in Shooting Times ? this month they had an article on the 32-40.


July 06 issue ?

[6pt-sika]

Just went out and bought the August 06 edition of ST . The 32-40 was not in that one although there is an article on the 25-35 .

[L Ross]

In .30 cal. I have used a RCBS 150 gc flat nose cast from ACWW with 13 gr. of Red Dot for a chrono'd 1630 fps in an 03 Springfield. Shot a average adult doe at 35 yds slightly quartering on. Broke upper leg bone just below the knuckle joint that connects to the shoulder blade, nicked a rib then got some lung, a wadcutter looking hole thru the heart with some bruising and radial splitting of the muscle, more lung and a small exit just in front of the diaphram. Doe was with a group of 5 more. They all wheeled an about face and made 4 bounds and stopped. The wounded doe's tail shivered and she fell over dead. THe other 5 looked down and her and then bounded away. Today distance traveled after the shot 32 paces. Blood trail started at the point of inpact and was adequate for trailing had any been needed. Recoil was so mild I saw the hair fluff on impact shooting both eyes open with a receiver sight and home made taller blade front.

L Ross

[Larry Gibson]

Good day, gentlemen.

Couple o' buddies and myself have been talking about minimum muzzle vel. in a .30 cal rifle acceptable for hunting game up to whitetails, cast, of course, shots up to 100 yds. One says nothing short of 2000 fps is usable, other argues that 'a hole is a hole', and 1500 fps would be enough. We are assuming no bullet fragmentation should occur.
Your opinions will be much appreciated.

Some years back I along with some friends drew emergency doe tags for Wallowa County in NE Oregon. I was familiar with the area and it wasn't far from home so I decided to use a sporterized Mex Mauser I had rebarreled to .308. The barrel was 18.5" and had a Sionics suppressor mounted. I used a 311041 HP cast of range 22LR lead and I believe it weighed around 165 gr. Over a small charge of Unique it ran just subsonic at 1050 fps. It is legal to have and hunt with a suppressor in Oregon BTW. I had it zeroed for 100 yards. I ended up shooting 3 does with it that day at 50-75 yards. Two were neck shots just behind the ear and they dropped at the shot as expected. I did not recover either bullet and don't know if they exited or what. The third doe was quartering away and I shot her behind the on side front leg as she stepped forward so the bullet would go through the heart. It slipped between two ribs going in, cut through the top of the heart, smashed through the side of a brisket rib and stopped under the hide. The bullet was pretty well mushroomed and some metal did slough off. At the shot the doe walk 10 or 15 steps and fell over dead.

That was the lowest velocity I've used a .30 cast bullet at. I've killed numerous blacktails and mule deer with the same 311041 HP (cast of magnum shot and water quenched) at 1800 to 2200 fps out of several different cartridges. I've also killed a couple deer and numerous goats with the 311410HP and 313631 SWC out of a .30 Carbine at 1800+ fps.

Larry Gibson

[jhalcott]

I've shot a few deer off a golf course That were causing damage. There were houses all thru the course so noise was a factor I used a 7T/CU carbine with 174flat nose cast to do the culling. Velocity was only about 1600 fps. Bullets were wheel weight air cooled gas checked and VERY effective. Only broadside shots were taken and the deer dropped or went less than 20 yards. I shot UNDER a pickup to get a deer that was eating the shrubs along the drive way!

[JudgeBAC]

I just acquired a double cavity Ideal mold #311466. Would this be a good whitetail deer bullet in a .300 Savage? What is the consensus of opinion between flat nose and round nose for hunting?

[JDL]

I used the 311466 in my .300 Savage for the first 2 deer I ever took with cast, about 30 years ago. I made a fixture that I could hollow point them using a regular hand drill so this, no doubt, had a positive effect. I switched to the 31141 and found it performs very much the same way as a .30-30 factory bullet, so now tend to load flat nose for hunting. The 311466 can be bumped to a FN using a flat punch while lubbing and putting a little extra pressure on the handle if the alloy is air cooled w/w. -JDL

[C1PNR]

What is the consensus of opinion between flat nose and round nose for hunting?
I don't know that you'll find many "consensus" opinions around here, but I THINK you will find MOST people here agree that, all other things being equal (diameter, velocity, weight, BHN, etc.), the flat nose is a better game design than round or pointed nose.

Buckshot may be able to help you if you decide to have one of the cavities made into a hollow point and/or flat nose. Or you may just do as suggested and use a flat nose top punch when lubing.