Ruger Old Army locked up straight out of the box!

[Four Fingers of Death]

I bought a pair of these (clean up guns) SS, 5 1/2" Bbls, redwood grips. Nice looking guns. They were sent from a big dealer from interstate who imported them direct from Ruger) to our club armourer. He bought them to the range for me and I used one the first day and it worked fine. When I got the guns home I cleaned the one I was using and went to put them into the safe (too many guns to fit the boxes in, they go in loose). I put the used one away, then took the other one out of the box and pulled it out of the bag to have a look. I went to put it on half cock so that I could check the nipples (I know, it was new, but I check everything). The hammer started to move backwards and locked up hard about a quarter of an inch out. Nothing would budge it.

I pulled it out when I had time and gently removed the grip frame whilst supporting it. Once the frame and the cylinder were removed, the hammer freed up. I carefully reset the spring in the grip frame and re-assembled the gun, looking good so far. I then went to cock it and she locked up again. I can send iit back to the gunshop I bought it from, But I will have to pay a dealer here to post it and recieve it back once it is fixed as only dealers can ship firearms across state lines.

I feel that there has probably been some mistake made in initial assembly as they are pretty roughly thrown together. The clown that assembled them used the same sized screwdriver for all screws and the big one has been damaged where the too small screwdriver has bitten into it. The frame near the screw slot is also scratched badly. This is on the gun that works which hasn't been taken down by me, so it has obviously been done at the factory.

Has anyone got any ides what might be wrong?

Next time I pull it apart I will pull the good one down at the same time and compare them.

[singleshotman]

If it's percussion, YOU can ship it, even by the USPS. I am always amazed at the ignorance of gun owners.READ THE LAW, it's on the net.Heck you can even ship it to CA, for god's sake.I've bought guns by mail since 1969, and only modern guns need to go thru a dealer, post 1898, NOT PRE-1898 type.

[garandsrus]

singleshotman,

Ah.... Mick is in Australia so my guess is that you don't know the relevant shipping laws better than he does.

John

[Trey45]

Totally uncalled for singleshot, if you had bothered to read the mans location you'd see he's in Australia, your location says westminster, that narrows it down to around 32 states, and 3 different countries.

[Papa smurf]

Refering To post #2-----------------This is why I dont post or reply much anymore ----------Too many like this one! ---------------Sorry I cant help on the lockup thing , but I just had to speak up---------Papa Smurf

[9.3X62AL]

Hey, NEW GUY--FFoD is ANYTHING BUT ignorant of the laws concerning firearms in his nation and states, and is quite knowledgeable in the subject areas of firearms and their allied hobby fields that are discussed here. Your text is out of line.

[StarMetal]

I bought a pair of these (clean up guns) SS, 5 1/2" Bbls, redwood grips. Nice looking guns. They were sent from a big dealer from interstate who imported them direct from Ruger) to our club armourer. He bought them to the range for me and I used one the first day and it worked fine. When I got the guns home I cleaned the one I was using and went to put them into the safe (too many guns to fit the boxes in, they go in loose). I put the used one away, then took the other one out of the box and pulled it out of the bag to have a look. I went to put it on half cock so that I could check the nipples (I know, it was new, but I check everything). The hammer started to move backwards and locked up hard about a quarter of an inch out. Nothing would budge it.

I pulled it out when I had time and gently removed the grip frame whilst supporting it. Once the frame and the cylinder were removed, the hammer freed up. I carefully reset the spring in the grip frame and re-assembled the gun, looking good so far. I then went to cock it and she locked up again. I can send iit back to the gunshop I bought it from, But I will have to pay a dealer here to post it and recieve it back once it is fixed as only dealers can ship firearms across state lines.

I feel that there has probably been some mistake made in initial assembly as they are pretty roughly thrown together. The clown that assembled them used the same sized screwdriver for all screws and the big one has been damaged where the too small screwdriver has bitten into it. The frame near the screw slot is also scratched badly. This is on the gun that works which hasn't been taken down by me, so it has obviously been done at the factory.

Has anyone got any ides what might be wrong?

Next time I pull it apart I will pull the good one down at the same time and compare them.

Try this, take both revolvers apart and compare the internal pieces. Being the used one works, try find the difference between the parts and go from there. Perhaps you can correct the problem if it's not to severe.

[pdawg_shooter]

I bought a pair of these (clean up guns) SS, 5 1/2" Bbls, redwood grips. Nice looking guns. They were sent from a big dealer from interstate who imported them direct from Ruger) to our club armourer. He bought them to the range for me and I used one the first day and it worked fine. When I got the guns home I cleaned the one I was using and went to put them into the safe (too many guns to fit the boxes in, they go in loose). I put the used one away, then took the other one out of the box and pulled it out of the bag to have a look. I went to put it on half cock so that I could check the nipples (I know, it was new, but I check everything). The hammer started to move backwards and locked up hard about a quarter of an inch out. Nothing would budge it.

Ant this surprised you why? It IS a ruger you know.

[EMC45]

If it's percussion, YOU can ship it, even by the USPS. I am always amazed at the ignorance of gun owners.READ THE LAW, it's on the net.Heck you can even ship it to CA, for god's sake.I've bought guns by mail since 1969, and only modern guns need to go thru a dealer, post 1898, NOT PRE-1898 type.


This post was pretty lame. LIGHTEN UP!!!!

[44man]

Ruger's do NOT come with messed up screws or scratches. Someone has fooled with that gun.
The lock work is so simple that something drastic was done by someone that does not know anything at all.
I would bet it was returned to the dealer by someone and the dealer sold it as new.

[dubber123]

Ruger's do NOT come with messed up screws or scratches. Someone has fooled with that gun.
The lock work is so simple that something drastic was done by someone that does not know anything at all.
I would bet it was returned to the dealer by someone and the dealer sold it as new.

NOT true! I ordered a new Ruger Single Six Bisley years ago. It came in with the rear sight maxed out to one side, (this was to correct for the barrel not being threaded in far enough). I sent it back to Ruger. Remember, brand new gun, handled only by me. It came back with 3 boogered up screws, and a 1/4" patch of blueing missing off the barrel, and the front sight still leaning to the side, totally unfixed, and somewhat worse for wear.... :mad:

Don't assume everyone at Ruger knows what they are doing, it's pretty obvious some don't.

[hickstick_10]

theres a burr somewhere in that gun, strip her down (dont loose the little parts, as the gun is a little more complex than a SAA) and take a quick peak at all corners and edges.

I had the same problem as you, I had to pull out the hammer screw to unlock it.

[jhrosier]

One of the few things that can cause a Ruger single action to lock up is a damaged/broken hammer plunger.
The length of the plunger is fairly critical so if it breaks or somehow comes partially unseated it can hang up.
The plunger, BTW is what pulls the cylinder lock into the frame to allow cylinder rotation.
It is a tiny pin and half of it is cut away to allow the even smaller pin that retains it
Since you have two guns, take the hammers out of both and compare the plunger length closely.

I don't recall if it is possible to assemble the mainspring strut backwards, but that is another thing to check.

Jack

[jh45gun]

Ah yes more ruger love LOL.

[44man]

NOT true! I ordered a new Ruger Single Six Bisley years ago. It came in with the rear sight maxed out to one side, (this was to correct for the barrel not being threaded in far enough). I sent it back to Ruger. Remember, brand new gun, handled only by me. It came back with 3 boogered up screws, and a 1/4" patch of blueing missing off the barrel, and the front sight still leaning to the side, totally unfixed, and somewhat worse for wear.... :mad:

Don't assume everyone at Ruger knows what they are doing, it's pretty obvious some don't.
You have a point about them screwing up now and then, just like all other gun makers but a NEW gun will not have buggered screws. I will not speak for some of the jerks they hire to repair guns and they should be fired or retrained. NO gun should ever be returned without a thorough inspection.
Same as when I built a custom stock that a customer paid over $300 for, just for a blank. I would stare at it for weeks, knowing if I screwed it up I would have to buy another. Do you know the fear when putting the first checkering tools to a wonderful piece of wood after spending weeks fitting and finishing it?
This is what is lacking today with some people that are hired. They have no pride, just want a pay check.
With the time and labor of love I spent on a fine piece of wood, I would have gone broke doing it for a living.
I would not blame Ruger, just the jerk they hired but I would be on the phone right now if that happened to me and I would go all the way to the top man.

[Four Fingers of Death]

As to knowoing the laws I'm pretty much up on it thanks. I worked in the prison system from 1984 to 2008, so it takes a lot to excite me or get me riled up. I used to tell people that put their mouth (or fingers in this case) into gear before engaging their brain, that we thake these things in our stride, at least for the first couple of times, not the sort of thing we put up with if repeated too much. I was prone to run off at a tangent in school and I had an old Irish teacher that used to always say, read the question michael. That sunk in eventually.

I imagine singleshotman has similar restrictive laws in England (Westminster).

Thanks for the tips, flat out at the moment, I will get to it all when the dust settles.

[Papa smurf]

I think jhrosier may be on to something you can install the strut upsidedown and it will lockup when you try to go to full cock.-----------------------------Good Shooting Papa Smurf

[Four Fingers of Death]

Thats the strut that indexes the cylinder isn't it? That fell out as I pulled the gun apart. I may have put it back in upside down, but as it did the exact same thing as before, the minimum wage worker probably did the same thing.

This is unusual for me because I have owned a lot of Rugers over the years without a hitch (6 rifles, 2 auto pistols and 10 SA revolvers).

[MtGun44]

I think the snotty new guy is an American. As was pointed out, Westminster is a
pretty common town, county and city name.

On this site, we strive to be pleasant and helpful. Someone with 16 posts has no
business being that way, and on second thought no matter how many post you have
you have no business being that way.

Lighten up and be helpful, please.

[Papa smurf]

The hammer strut is the long metal stamping that is inside the main spring.

[jhrosier]

Thats the strut that indexes the cylinder isn't it? .....


http://www.milesfortis.com/mcump/images/mcump/20/rugeraction.jpg

The part to which I first refered is called the locking bolt plunger in this picture. The mainspring strut is the part that the mainspring is wound around.

Jack

[Papa smurf]

The main spring and strut can be installed upsidedown . And I may be wrong ,but I think it will only work one way. I hope I'm not making more of this than I should and not being of any help.------------------------Good luck and I,ll keep watching for some good news from Australia.

[StarMetal]

I'm not sure you can put that main spring strut in the wrong way.

http://www.urban-armory.com/diagrams/rugbhold.gif

[dualsport]

I don't know about the shipping thing, but I can vouch for Ruger's service department. I sent them a ROA I got cheap that had a trigger problem(return spring?). I did not claim it as a warranty item, offering to pay for repairs. They fixed it free, did a good job, and sent it back to me at my home. If I recall, they make no guarantees, they just fix broken Rugers for free, no questions asked. They make some very durable guns.

[Four Fingers of Death]

They are great guns and I have never had a problem before this, but warranty service in the States and overseas are two different animals. I usually find it easier to just fix problems myself, for the cost of getting a dealer to handle them twice and post back and forwards can buy a fair bit of repair gunsmithing..

[Southern Son]

Four Fingers, was that one of the guns that Cleaver has beeen advertising? I was thinking of buying one of them (but I don't know if I will if they are re-finished second hand).

[NickSS]

I have a couple of ruger old army revolvers that I bought in 1974 and have shot them a lot. The lock work is very similar to a colt SSA but not exactly. It uses a little wire spring for the locking bolt and a spring loaded plunger for the trigger return spring. The mainspring is a coil spring that rides around a strut and the hand spring is a spring loaded plunger. The hand itself attaches to the hammer. My guess is that your problem is one of three things. One there is a burr that is jaming the action of either the hand, or the hammer strut may be in backwards (rotated 180 degrees) and the last is that the cylinder gap is too tight or none existent. Being a new gun I would strip it down but removing first the hammer spring and strut then the five screws that hold the grip frame to the pistol. Pull the grip frame off to the rear. Do it slowly so that you can catch the hand plunger spring in the upper left side of the action. You can now examine the workings of the gun. If the hammer still locks up try to see where it is locking up. if you can not detect a problem with the action I would look carefully at the hanner strut and spring. Also look at the orientation of the part in the pistol that works well if it was in reversed that will lock your pistol up. You can pull out the rest of the parts by removing the hammer screw , trigger screw and the little wire spring that tensions the locking bolt (do not loose this little bugger as they are hard to get a replacement. You now have it all apart and can look for burrs etc that is causing the problem. Good luck I take mine completely apart once a year for cleaning the gunk out of the action and keep it free of rust and corrosion inbetween with liberal squirts of WD 40 into the lockwork. I love my OA and have litterally fired thousands of ball through them over the years.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Four Fingers, was that one of the guns that Cleaver has beeen advertising? I was thinking of buying one of them (but I don't know if I will if they are re-finished second hand).

Yep, I got them from Cleavers. They are not second hand, but are clean up guns, which is a gun industry term it seems, as in cleaning out the last of the frames, barrels, etc and making them up into complete guns. I decided to grab a pair as they are no longer available. They didn't hesitate to offer to fix it, but it will cost me a minimum of $60 + registered post to send it up and get it back. As such I'll try and fix it first.

I am as busy as all get out and didn't plan on doing anything to these for awhile, but the thread is drawing so much attention I'll have to drop everything shortly and have another go at it. :D

I don't know if they have any left, but I'd grab one if you want one, there ain't gonna be any more! Make sure they get you one without damaged screws, scratches, etc (Won't take long for me to scratch mine up, but the screws are a bit off, a couple of years down the track, there's no way I'll be able to convince folks that I didn't ding em' up. A set of non stainless screws, blued like the bright blue Beretta screws would look ok.

Thanks for the walk through Nickss, that will be a big help.

[cajun shooter]

Cast Boolits did not have the type of person that popped off at you Four fingers until just a while back. We were and why I signed on after looking was a group of (LET ME HELP YOU) guys. Just like when I made a few suggestions to you on CAS CITY (FAIRSHAKE HANDLE THERE) and had someone who probably had never been to any gun school tell me that I didn't know of what I was speaking. If you say something on that forum that a few who lurk there can't wait to jump and put you down instead of working together to help every one. PS hope you figure out your problem. I attended Ruger school but at the time we worked on the Security-Six and Speed -Six and the mini-14; cop guns as they called them at the time. Later David

[Dan Cash]

Four fingers,
I think your hammer strut is installed with the hump forward instead of to the rear. With the cylinder removed, does the hammer still bind? With the cylinder removed, try cocking the hammer and observe the cylinder bolt. The bolt should be fully withdrawn into the frame before the hammer reaches half cock.

If the hammer locks up with the cylinder removed, your problem is hammer strut. If hammer cocks but the bolt does not retract, the problem is part #23 shown in the schematic in an earlier post. Hope this helps.
Dan

[Southern Son]

Thanks for that clarification, Four Finger. I might give them a call tomorrow, just to see if they still have any. Looking at the blow apart of the SBH, and remembering a little mistake I made when pulling apart a SBH I owned (foolishly sold off about 10 years ago), I agree with those that have said the hammer strut might be backwards, if the OA has one that is similar to the SBH. Good luck fixing it, what ever the problem is.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I'lll go down and get the gun out of the safe in the morning and have a look at it. Thanks for the input.

[Geraldo]

FFoD, did these pistols come with manuals? If not I can scan the parts drawing from mine and email it to you.

I managed to lock mine up by not getting the hammer back to half-cock for removal of the cylinder. I took it apart down to the frame, but once reassembled it worked fine.

[44man]

I'm not sure you can put that main spring strut in the wrong way.

http://www.urban-armory.com/diagrams/rugbhold.gif
That picture is wrong. The pawl spring and plunger are shown reversed. The plunger should go in the hole first.
Much good advice given. The Ruger is like a bank vault and problems are usually so small they are easy to find.
My vote also goes for a reversed hammer strut.
Yes, it will go together backwards.

[StarMetal]

44man,

Jim, that's a sharp eye you have there. I put that up as a test to see who would catch it. :kidding: Hey, what did you expect for an Obama Administration sanctioned schematics? :redneck:

[WildShot]

I had a Bearcat that locked up to the point that the cylinder could not be removed. I returned it to Ruger and it came back in perfect condition. I assumed that the timing was so seriously off that it caused the lock up but don’t fully understand because I would not disassemble it because I expected Ruger to service it under warranty. I have a lot of confidence that Ruger will work with you and fix the problem. I would be surprised if they did not offer to share in the shipping expenses to return it to the factory. I would email their customer service people and explain the problem and the circumstances and see how they respond.

[Multigunner]

Well I'd like to join in on the Ruger bashing. These are some of the best designed but far too ofen poorly made guns in the world.
So far two out of four Ruger revolvers I've owned or had temporary possession of have been dogs. One was an early Bearcat, a beautiful and handy little .22. It spit lead in my face at every shot. I hated to return it but I could find no reason for it spitting lead so I couldn't correct it. Timing seemed perfect. In fact by every visible clue the little pistol should have been a fine shooter.
I found out a couple of years ago what the problem was with these. Some had come through without any forcing cone cut at all. If I'd known enough to look for that at the time I could have cut the cone myself in a few minutes and would still have the pistol.

I'm still not sure how this resulted in lead striking my face with the pistol held at arms length. I could not even spot where the bullets went for that matter, it was so inaccurate.

On another occasion my brother brought a .357 double action Ruger over for me to test fire. At 25 feet bullets could be seen spining through the air sideways and striking dirt with no more velocity than if thrown by hand.
On examining the bore I found that it had deep gouges across every land, some times deeper than the grooves. Bullets were being chewed to pieces on the way down bore.

This sort of Monday Morning lack of quality control turned me against Rugers altogether, which is a shame since the designs are top drawer.
I have owned a every nice Ruger .22 Auto, though it operated perfectly I didn't much like the balance and traded it off after a few months. It was extremely well made though. The gun had good accuracy potential but was not easy to shoot accurately.
A similar but more tricked out Ruger I once testfired, a stainless long barreled target model, was the least accurate .22 autoloader I've ever fired, less accurate than cheap Zamac framed pocket pistols I've fired. Again there was no visible reason for this, the gun was simply a lemon.

If visible or easily spotted defects were the only problems with Rugers it would not be a serious issue, but as it is a Ruger can look fine and seem to operate perfectly but be no more useful than a ball peen hammer should push come to shove.

[44man]

Well I'd like to join in on the Ruger bashing. These are some of the best designed but far too ofen poorly made guns in the world.
So far two out of four Ruger revolvers I've owned or had temporary possession of have been dogs. One was an early Bearcat, a beautiful and handy little .22. It spit lead in my face at every shot. I hated to return it but I could find no reason for it spitting lead so I couldn't correct it. Timing seemed perfect. In fact by every visible clue the little pistol should have been a fine shooter.
I found out a couple of years ago what the problem was with these. Some had come through without any forcing cone cut at all. If I'd known enough to look for that at the time I could have cut the cone myself in a few minutes and would still have the pistol.

I'm still not sure how this resulted in lead striking my face with the pistol held at arms length. I could not even spot where the bullets went for that matter, it was so inaccurate.

On another occasion my brother brought a .357 double action Ruger over for me to test fire. At 25 feet bullets could be seen spining through the air sideways and striking dirt with no more velocity than if thrown by hand.
On examining the bore I found that it had deep gouges across every land, some times deeper than the grooves. Bullets were being chewed to pieces on the way down bore.

This sort of Monday Morning lack of quality control turned me against Rugers altogether, which is a shame since the designs are top drawer.
I have owned a every nice Ruger .22 Auto, though it operated perfectly I didn't much like the balance and traded it off after a few months. It was extremely well made though. The gun had good accuracy potential but was not easy to shoot accurately.
A similar but more tricked out Ruger I once testfired, a stainless long barreled target model, was the least accurate .22 autoloader I've ever fired, less accurate than cheap Zamac framed pocket pistols I've fired. Again there was no visible reason for this, the gun was simply a lemon.

If visible or easily spotted defects were the only problems with Rugers it would not be a serious issue, but as it is a Ruger can look fine and seem to operate perfectly but be no more useful than a ball peen hammer should push come to shove.
Yes, it happens but you overlook too much. I have been a part time gunsmith and custom rifle builder most of my life. I have worked with some super gunsmiths as friends. I have seen junk from every maker, some so bad they can not be repaired and need melted down with old cars. S&W, Dan Wesson, Freedom, Ruger, Savage, Remington, Marlin and on and on, not even to mention some of the foreign junk. I have seen custom guns so bad they are not worth the price of the grips or wood in the stocks.
But when I think back about the real old guns, only wear was a problem after many years of hard use. Some defined accuracy. Military rifles of old like the Springfield, U.S. Enfield, etc were made to the highest standards of accuracy on a production standard that far surpasses any gun maker today.
The pre 64 Winchester was a marvel.
I blame the lack of pride on the average worker today that is waiting for Obama to support him. Nobody wants to work anymore and no good company can find good people to replace the old workers that took pride in what they did.
Then there is the board of directors that could care less about anything but money. Downsize, cut benefits, lay off and hire part time. Now would you do your best for these people? Or do you wait for Friday, watching the clock all day?
Too many that complain fit into this spot. How many auto workers drop a bolt and say, "the heck with it?" I would stop the line and put the bolt in.
My cousin bought a new Ford sports car, drove 1/4 mile from the dealer and the whole transmission fell out on the road.
Stop and think about what you do for a living and how concerned you are!
Most of us old timers that really cared about the customer are long gone. Where do you fit? If you think like I do, you are right and a person of integrity, angry about the lazy folks. But we can't do a thing about it except vote or not buy products, we can't get violent.
But in all these years, Ruger will take care of you as best they can. So will most all companies in the shooting sports that go much farther out of their way then a car maker or those that made the stupid washing machine or fridge that quit.
I have learned to accept things that are wrong as long as the company will help and fix the problem.
Once we spend money, we expect value. But what have we received from all the tax dollars we paid all of our lives? Many voted for liberals and work in factories. Scary, isn't it?

[Four Fingers of Death]

We are as much of a problem as anything else. Yonks ago if you wanted a gun you went down to the gunstore and bought it or ordered it in and paid the going rate. Now everyone is on the net, tracking down the best buy and then complain that the manafactures are cutting corners and are dollar driven. Of course they are, they are in business and they are there to make a profit for the owners/shareholders. We critise shoddy workmen who are not secure in their employment, don't know if they'll be working next, have their wages driven down to blazes, just so the profit margin can be made and the gun put on the shelf for the lowest price. Then somehow it's Obama's fault?

The world has changed, no longer can a business get by easily putting out the best quality product (most people are happy with an inferior product, because it's cheaper and will normally do the job. USAF get by, but they charge a premium for their excellent products and are selling to a select section of the market.

I thin k a lot of importers here operate like car dealers. A customer is unhappy and decides that he will never buy a GM product again. As he walks out the door he brushes past a car owner who just declared he will never buy a Ford again. The car sales guy knows it will generally balance out.

The people who imported this pistol offered to fix it, but it's up to me to get it there. Can't help bad luck as we used to say in the prison system.

[44man]

It is a little off topic so forgive me. I worked 42 years for UAL and we knew the customer paid our wages so we took great care with freight, mail and bags. We handled gun and bow cases, trophies, etc with kid gloves. We made sure a persons bag got on the flight if a connecting flight was late.
Then they hired part time with no benefits, and the government made the company hire ethnic people under that program. Can't remember what they called it. Hardly any would work or cared, they would throw bags, etc.
Then the on time stats from the government had supervisors tell us to lock up the plane for on time before we got all the bags on.
I watched a great, proud company spiral into a hole and am glad I retired when I did. Then the government took over my retirement with the PBGC and I lost $6600 a year.
Fare wars and hatchet CEO's finished it off while they ran away with fortunes. Our maintenance bases were closed, Mexico does a lot of it.
I no longer fly!
I did my taxes and the feds say I am only taxed on a little over $1800 but I still had to pay the feds and the state.
I often wonder why I worked so hard all of my life but it was PRIDE and self esteem.

[Four Fingers of Death]

It is a little off topic so forgive me. I worked 42 years for UAL and we knew the customer paid our wages so we took great care with freight, mail and bags. We handled gun and bow cases, trophies, etc with kid gloves. We made sure a persons bag got on the flight if a connecting flight was late.
Then they hired part time with no benefits, and the government made the company hire ethnic people under that program. Can't remember what they called it. Hardly any would work or cared, they would throw bags, etc.
Then the on time stats from the government had supervisors tell us to lock up the plane for on time before we got all the bags on.
I watched a great, proud company spiral into a hole and am glad I retired when I did. Then the government took over my retirement with the PBGC and I lost $6600 a year.
Fare wars and hatchet CEO's finished it off while they ran away with fortunes. Our maintenance bases were closed, Mexico does a lot of it.
I no longer fly!
I did my taxes and the feds say I am only taxed on a little over $1800 but I still had to pay the feds and the state.
I often wonder why I worked so hard all of my life but it was PRIDE and self esteem.

I can't imagine what it would be like being employed on a casual / temporary basis for the bulk of your working life, which seems to be the approach nowadays. How could you develop loyalty when the worker knows he's out the door if something goes wrong or a machine has any real downtime, etc. How could you commit to getting a loan for a car or house with the threat of unemployment hanging over your head all the time? How could you keep your nose out of the want ads until you found a better solution? Thats no way to run a business I reckon, but it is supposed to be financially better for the company. I'm just glad I never had to work that way.

The guys putting my ROAs together probably knew they would get the flick as soon as the parts were all converted into saleable guns. I'd be concentrating on what the heck I was going to do next week/month when I was no longer employed.

[jh45gun]

Well I'd like to join in on the Ruger bashing. These are some of the best designed but far too ofen poorly made guns in the world.
So far two out of four Ruger revolvers I've owned or had temporary possession of have been dogs. One was an early Bearcat, a beautiful and handy little .22. It spit lead in my face at every shot. I hated to return it but I could find no reason for it spitting lead so I couldn't correct it. Timing seemed perfect. In fact by every visible clue the little pistol should have been a fine shooter.
I found out a couple of years ago what the problem was with these. Some had come through without any forcing cone cut at all. If I'd known enough to look for that at the time I could have cut the cone myself in a few minutes and would still have the pistol.

I'm still not sure how this resulted in lead striking my face with the pistol held at arms length. I could not even spot where the bullets went for that matter, it was so inaccurate.

On another occasion my brother brought a .357 double action Ruger over for me to test fire. At 25 feet bullets could be seen spining through the air sideways and striking dirt with no more velocity than if thrown by hand.
On examining the bore I found that it had deep gouges across every land, some times deeper than the grooves. Bullets were being chewed to pieces on the way down bore.

This sort of Monday Morning lack of quality control turned me against Rugers altogether, which is a shame since the designs are top drawer.
I have owned a every nice Ruger .22 Auto, though it operated perfectly I didn't much like the balance and traded it off after a few months. It was extremely well made though. The gun had good accuracy potential but was not easy to shoot accurately.
A similar but more tricked out Ruger I once testfired, a stainless long barreled target model, was the least accurate .22 autoloader I've ever fired, less accurate than cheap Zamac framed pocket pistols I've fired. Again there was no visible reason for this, the gun was simply a lemon.

If visible or easily spotted defects were the only problems with Rugers it would not be a serious issue, but as it is a Ruger can look fine and seem to operate perfectly but be no more useful than a ball peen hammer should push come to shove.

Interesting that you should post this I too have had issues with several Ruger handguns and when I told of my experiences here it seemed I was almost labeled as a trouble maker just because I was bashing guns others own and love. In my earlier years I owned my fair share of Rugers so it is not that I was basing my issues with only one gun or two. I now would not buy one because of what I feel is a poor record with myself and others having issues with their guns.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Like I said, all of the many Rugers I have owned were spot on and never missed a beat. I only ever sold them to upgrade or because I was short of money when bringing up a family. I disposed of a Bisley Blackhawk which chopped my big hands up, the gun worked fine, but drew blood with full house loads. I never sold one because it was a bad gun.

[jh45gun]

Your lucky then others have not been so lucky. I am not saying ALL Ruger's are bad but enough have been that to me its an issue. I just bought a Marlin Guide gun that has a frozen plug screw for the scope mount. You can see where it was ground down flat and then finished with the flat mat finish the tops of the Marlin receivers get. Not worth it to send it back especially with Marlin closing down their plant. I figure 3 screws will hold the base for the scope mount so I will leave it for now and get it fixed if I ever want a peep sight on the gun. Still torks me off that they did this and sent it out the way they did. The offending plug screw had a flat top flush with the receiver and hardly any slot left to fit a screw driver. I tried to get it out but all it did was widen the slot and yes I had a bit to fit the head I made one narrow to fit the screw. The other screws that I took out had somewhat rounded tops so I know this plug screw was ground down flush with the receiver and finished in the same mat finish Marlin uses on the tops of their receivers. There just was not enough slot to get the screwdriver to bite. Needless to say I am not that impressed with Marlin at the moment because of an obvious error that they should know only them or a gunsmith is going to be able to fix.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I should have noted that I was lucky in that I have had no trouble so far, I wasn't trying to make out that others were exaggerating.

You think that each gun would be cycled to see that it worked. If they were quickly testing them, they would soon work out where they were going to strike trouble. Maybe they figure it they just rack em' and stack em' and ship em' out, only 1 in 250 comes back and fixing that one is cheaper then checking the rest. Who knows. I am going to visit my semi retired gunsmith friend tomorrow. I have done him a heap of favours recently and I will take both of the ROAs over and we sort it out over a cup of coffee and a few cookies.

Stand by for some serious smoke, flame and noise!

[jh45gun]

Good luck

[Four Fingers of Death]

I just checked in while I was waiting for my wife to get ready. I had completely forgotten about this. I will go get the guns out of the safe now, Phew!

[Four Fingers of Death]

I went to my mate's place today and about ten minutes after I arrived, he had a bunch of rellies turn up. he offered to fix it if I left the gun, but I have a Police safekeeping inspection coming up in the next week or so. I took the gun home, disassembled it again, the strut was right way up, but the trigger didn't seem 100%. It is difficult to re-set the hammer strut spring by your self, but I did it. With the cylinder removed and the grip frame off it seemed to be working alright. I replaced the grip frame, still going ok, popped the cylinder back in and it all jammed up again. :(

It is going back into the safe and I will have another go in a few days when I get more time.

[JIMinPHX]

I don't know Jack about the Ruger Old Army in particular, but I've messed with a few cap-n-balls. Jammed up guns of that type, usually come from either pieces of cap getting jammed up in the lock werks, or else from lead splatter in the forcing cone gap. I hope that this is useful information. Sorry if it's just more gibberish to confuse you.

Regards,
Jim

[44man]

I went to my mate's place today and about ten minutes after I arrived, he had a bunch of rellies turn up. he offered to fix it if I left the gun, but I have a Police safekeeping inspection coming up in the next week or so. I took the gun home, disassembled it again, the strut was right way up, but the trigger didn't seem 100%. It is difficult to re-set the hammer strut spring by your self, but I did it. With the cylinder removed and the grip frame off it seemed to be working alright. I replaced the grip frame, still going ok, popped the cylinder back in and it all jammed up again. :(

It is going back into the safe and I will have another go in a few days when I get more time.
See this hole when the hammer is cocked? Put a pin in it and let the hammer down. Then you can lift out the mainspring assembly.

[Four Fingers of Death]

See this hole when the hammer is cocked? Put a pin in it and let the hammer down. Then you can lift out the mainspring assembly.


JiMIN4HX, thanks for that but the gun has never been fired, it locked up as soon as I went to cock it.

Thats also the reason I', having trouble re-assembling it. I can only get it apart by removing the grip frame and then I have to get the pin in the hole in the strut why they are off the gun and loose.

Whhen I do manage to get the cylinder out, the pawl seems to be rising ok, but as soon as I get the cylinder in (which takes a while when you have to do it this way) she locks up again. It seems that the trouble is not in the grip frame, but inside the main frame.

[44man]

JiMIN4HX, thanks for that but the gun has never been fired, it locked up as soon as I went to cock it.

Thats also the reason I', having trouble re-assembling it. I can only get it apart by removing the grip frame and then I have to get the pin in the hole in the strut why they are off the gun and loose.

Whhen I do manage to get the cylinder out, the pawl seems to be rising ok, but as soon as I get the cylinder in (which takes a while when you have to do it this way) she locks up again. It seems that the trouble is not in the grip frame, but inside the main frame.
OK, I see what you had to do.
One more thing to check. Look at the pawl (hand) and see if it is the right one. The Old Army has a single point on the end unlike the BH that has a double point lift section. Someone might have put a BH or SBH pawl in the gun.
Compare it to your other gun and if it is the wrong one, remove the right one from the other gun and compare lengths and dimensions. You might be able to grind/ file the second lift point from the bad one as long as the thing is long enough overall.

[Four Fingers of Death]

OK, I see what you had to do.
One more thing to check. Look at the pawl (hand) and see if it is the right one. The Old Army has a single point on the end unlike the BH that has a double point lift section. Someone might have put a BH or SBH pawl in the gun.
Compare it to your other gun and if it is the wrong one, remove the right one from the other gun and compare lengths and dimensions. You might be able to grind/ file the second lift point from the bad one as long as the thing is long enough overall.

I didn't realise that there was a difference, but it is the single point one. Thanks.

[StarMetal]

Can you take the grip frame of and only have the barreled receiver with the hammer in it and just work the hammer, without the main spring and grip frame, to see if it jams then?

[44man]

Try something else too. Remove the cylinder and see if you can push the pawl in with your finger with the hammer back. It should move in easy with light spring pressure.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Can you take the grip frame of and only have the barreled receiver with the hammer in it and just work the hammer, without the main spring and grip frame, to see if it jams then?

When the cylinder and grip frame are removed it cycles perfectly (but not when it is upside down I noted.

[StarMetal]

When the cylinder and grip frame are removed it cycles perfectly (but not when it is upside down I noted.

Okay...that narrows it down to the grip frame, main spring, mainspring strut, and that little square washer the strut goes through. I would first check the strut for any irregularities and see if it slides through the slot in that square washer without binding. Check the rounded end where it goes into the hammer too for irregularities and also that the slot in the hammer has enough clearance when the strut pivots in it.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Okay...that narrows it down to the grip frame, main spring, mainspring strut, and that little square washer the strut goes through. I would first check the strut for any irregularities and see if it slides through the slot in that square washer without binding. Check the rounded end where it goes into the hammer too for irregularities and also that the slot in the hammer has enough clearance when the strut pivots in it.

The strut seems ok and it moved through the small hole easily as I had to assemble it a few times. I have three ROAs, I will put a pin in the leg of the strut off one of the guns that are working and swap the strut spring and washer assembly it into the non working gun. That should narrow it down (I don't know why I didn't think of that before).

[StarMetal]

The strut seems ok and it moved through the small hole easily as I had to assemble it a few times. I have three ROAs, I will put a pin in the leg of the strut off one of the guns that are working and swap the strut spring and washer assembly it into the non working gun. That should narrow it down (I don't know why I didn't think of that before).

Good strategy...work through each step. When you find swaping parts work, then example and compare the two parts, the one that works, and the original one that doesn't. It sounds like something simple and so minute that it's easily overlooked. Good luck.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Thanks for the ideas StarMetal, its 0119 hrs here, I'm off to bed.

[abunaitoo]

If it's percussion, YOU can ship it, even by the USPS. I am always amazed at the ignorance of gun owners.READ THE LAW, it's on the net.Heck you can even ship it to CA, for god's sake.I've bought guns by mail since 1969, and only modern guns need to go thru a dealer, post 1898, NOT PRE-1898 type.

I hope you read this post.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=80850
If not, maybe you should.
Have a nice day:)

[StarMetal]

Sir, have you ever resolved the problem with your Ruger? I'd like to hear if you did.....and I hope that you did.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Nope! Been laid up lately. Back on my feet again, so I'll get to it shortly. I will let you know, thanks.

[Southern Son]

Hope you have not been unwell Four Fingers.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Hope you have not been unwell Four Fingers.

Been a big strong giant and can't just stop lifting things, lower back is just plumb wore out and puts me out of action every couple of months.

Going ok now, but I am gonna be realllllllllllllllllllll careful (famous last words) :D

Thanks for asking.

[Bodydoc447]

Hope you are feeling more up to snuff these days. Just wandering by to see if you've managed to fix your Old Army revolver.

Best wishes,
Doc