Ruger 45 COLT

[jtaylor1960]

I just shot my new Ruger Blackhawk in 45 Colt.I shot about three cylinders of a plain base 300gr. bullet.I am getting some leading.I checked the cylinder throats with a .452 slug.It was tight but passed through.The forcing cone allowed the same slug to go about half it's length in before getting tight.The leading was just after the forcing cone.I'm thinking either the cylinder throat and bullet need to be a shade bigger or maybe the load is too hot for a plain base.I'm using 10.0grs. of Unique. I have a 300gr. gas check mold I could try to see if the leading goes away.Any thoughts?

[hamour]

If you lead mix is to hard for the velocity it will cause problems as well.

[9.3X62AL]

I usually run 200-300 jacketed bullets through most of my new barrels before starting them out with lead boolits. Not sure if this does any good, but it doesn't seem to do any harm--and after a good de-coppering I don't get much leading if the boolits fit and the alloy is appropriate.

10.0 grains of Unique/300 grain cast boolit is more than I would give a Colt SAA, for sure--but is well within the safe range of a Ruger BLACKHAWK's design. I've run a whole lot of 250 grain cast boolits with 8.5-9.0 grains of Unique through several 45 Colts--Uberti, Ruger, S&W--no leading to speak of, using WW alloy. I usually choose another powder when I'm going to pour on the coal in 45 Colt, often 2400. The gas check boolit might make a difference in the lead left behind after each shot--but that doesn't mean that leading isn't occurring.

Any chance that an undersized expander stem is creating tight case necks that are reducing the diameter of seated bullets? Mic the expander stem, they are often .447"-.448". With .452" boolits, I want an expander NO SMALLER than .449", and .450" is better. One thing a gas check can also do is ameliorate the effect of undersized case mouths on boolit sidewalls--preventing some of the squeeze-down of seated bullets.

[jtaylor1960]

I forgot to mention is the bullet hardness is about 20 bhn or so.They are Beartooth sized to .452.The barrel before I shot it shined like a miror although it probably wouldn't hurt to run a few jacketed bullet through to catch any rough spots.I just cast some bullets out of an LBT mold I have.I will have to try them with a softer alloy to see what happens.The leading was not severe so I think I just need some minor changes to get rid of it.

[454PB]

To follow up on what 9.3X62AL said, you can check to see if you are sizing the boolit when seating in a too tight case by pulling one of the seated boolits and measuring.

Personally, I doubt that you are. I use an alloy of around 14 BHN in my .454's and .45 Colt, and my case expander mics .448"......boolits are sized .452". I have done the aforementioned test, and my boolits stay .452".

I agree with a "break-in" period. I usually use some straight linotype boolits for the first few hundred rounds, but jacketed bullets do the same job with less shots.

[Lloyd Smale]

sounds like you may need to lap out the constriction in your barrel.

[44man]

Yes, there might be a constriction. But the bore also needs slugged to see if the cylinder throats are really larger.
I am just the opposite of everyone else, I can only shoot hard lead and 10 gr of Unique is BRUTAL on a boolit. I had to get to almost 30 BHN with that load to cure accuracy and leading.
10 gr of Unique can turn a boolit into mush before it hits the forcing cone.
I never advocate softer lead, make sure the boolit and gun is right, then slow the initial push.

[bobke]

have followed 44man's advice in this regard as well, bypassing to H110, if that's the velocity range you're looking for. almost eliminated leading, whereas i had problems with many other powders prior to testing H110. i also had to lap out the constriction in forcing cone area and once complete, mitigated a lot of issues that even correct bullet fit and dimensions in the throats hadn't cured.

lloyd and james are dead nut. it's all about fit, not only in the throats, but barrel as well, regardless of hardness, though hard bullets seem to shoot better for me in my bisley 45 convertible.

[bigboredad]

I would try a different powder.As .44man said unique is brutal on a boolit I had the same experience as you with unique . I went to 2400 and 296 and had zero leading. I always try the cheap and easy things first before i jump into all the technical stuff. good luck and you will enjoy the caliber gun combo you have they are great.

[bowhunter]

My powder h4227-imr4227 17-18 gr. With mag primer 250 nei no lead with wheel weights to speek of.

[jtaylor1960]

I also thought that the hard commercial lube isn't doing a great job.I have some BAC and some Carnuba red and also some 50/50.I will use one of them on my own bullets.

[DanWalker]

Try 6.5 grains of Red Dot or 18 grains of 2400 under that 300 grainer.
The Red Dot load is a nice medium power load. The 2400 load is quite a bit snappier, but safe in a Blackhawk.

[jtaylor1960]

I have some H-110 and some LIL gun.I looked at some data and saw the pressures for these aren't much different than the same velocity with Unique.I could see where the slow steady pressure curve might work better with lead bullets especially with plain base.

[44man]

I have been shifting to PB boolits for quite a while and really like them. I hate buying gas checks with the prices.
Boolits really need to be recovered to see what is going on. Each weight of boolit can react differently too due to the inertia and resistance to turn. Rifling at the base must not exceed the width of the lands and grooves or you will lose seal and lead the bore. Some skidding at the front of a boolit is OK but it must turn before the base is reached. That is where a gas check helps by gripping the rifling at the critical spot.
By inspecting recovered boolits with too much skid I found the only cure is to start making them harder and the faster the powder, the harder they need to be. With a heavy dose of fast powder even a gas check can fail if the front of the boolit is too soft and skids too much.
My bench is always full of recovered boolits of every caliber.
Here are two boolits that show what I mean. The left one is a heavy .45 Colt that weighs 347 gr, shot at 1167 fps. Notice the gas check is not needed as there are no signs of skidding and the boolit is hard enough to grip and spin right away.
The right boolit is a 420 gr going 1329 fps. Notice the long skid but the base band has not had the rifling marks get too large, it does not lead the gun and is very accurate. I am going to make these even harder to reduce the skid.
Both of these were shot with 296 at the velocity where they are the most accurate.
I have some 245 gr .44 boolits somewhere that show they went several inches down the bore before taking the spin, shot with Unique. I could not get them to work until I got to 28 and 30 BHN. I have to find them.

[jtaylor1960]

That is interesting.I too am also fascinated by recovered bullets.Hopefully they can help us fix any problems and do what we want them to do.

[Rico1950]

jtaylor1960,
Measure those Beartooth boolits, i wouldn't be surprised if they measure .453".

[44man]

Call me crazy but I think perfect boolit fit to the throats is a little overblown.
Yes, the throats must be larger then the bore, that is a must. But I have shot thousands upon thousands of bore size boolits with super accuracy and no leading. I use hard boolits from 22 to 25 BHN.
My SBH has .4324" throats and a .430" bore and I shot it for years with .430" boolits. I have gone to .432" with the RD boolits and molds I made but I have to say it makes no difference. It seems boolit design makes a bigger difference with the Keith coming in last.
My feeling is that boolits too soft need to have more containment and must fit better to limit damage but even then, more damage is done in the forcing cone and rifling start to give more problems. Boolit slump, skidding, gas leakage, leading, poor accuracy, so I have to ask WHY?
I want to overlook something wrong like a constriction in the barrel, it can be fixed and should. But to make a boolit softer so it then again expands past the restriction is totally wrong, damage has been done. Use a pure round ball and it will do as well! :p Why buy special boolit shapes and molds, baby them in the sizing and loading steps just to turn them into something else when you shoot just does not make sense.
If I take, say a S&W and shoot 1/2" groups at 50 meters using jacketed, why and what thinking would ever make me use 12 BHN boolits and expect the same results?
I want hard and tough boolits. Too hard with lead can cause fractures and breakup in game so there is a limit with lead. It can't be made as hard as a jacket and can never be made to perform at jacketed velocities unless it is hard enough to withstand the pressure and that is kind of a pipe dream. It works fine at revolver velocities if you do some thinking and all of you know I get them to shoot as good as jacketed, most times much better.
I hope this gives you the reason that I will never tell anyone to use a softer boolit. If a hard boolit does not shoot, there is always another reason and to try and work around a problem by making the boolit softer will create more trouble.
NOTHING in over 54 years of shooting revolvers has caused me more trouble then soft boolits.