Casting .224 Bullets sure was hard.

[340six]

Well up untill yesterday was casting with used lyman and one RCBS moulds.
Tried the new Lyman 415 mould 50/50 WW and Lino
Would a differant combo of lead have filled out better
WOW it was a learning curve I also tried the 358091 full wad that was brand new as well and went way better after was realy hot.
Was it that way since I still had some lino in the WW Lead?
I used the lino/ww mix on a 38rn single cavity lyman well used but mint. Why? it was in the pot and will shoot some in the S&W .357
So leads me to ask
1) Do the moulds need broken in?
2) Is it the alloy combo I used as up till now just used straight WW?
3) Will the 38/.357RN be ok for .357 lead "starting loads" with no gas check as it has no provsion for one?
If not they will get remelted and the lino/ww combo will be reused

[Hickory]

1) Moulds do not need to be "broke in". Just clean out all oil and grease from the cavity(s)
2)W-W with about 2-3% tin is about all you'll need for handgun velocities.
3)If you have a good fit with your RN boolit you can push the up 1200-1400 fps with no problem

[DLCTEX]

I cast .224 boolits from WW and have no problems after getting the mould really hot. The mould needs to be preheated due to the small amount of lead used. I have a Lyman 2 ca. and a Lee Bator moulds and preheat them by dipping them in the melt. I would think the lino would be an aid rather than a detriment. Both moulds drop at .225 and I water drop and size .225.

[35remington]

It depends upon the mould you're using in 22.

The Bator mould, on a reasonably warm day, will cast perfectly filled out bullets with just wheelweight metal.

The Lyman designs, with their fine, small bands and tinier nooks and cranniesl, tend to give better fillout cast outside when using straight Linotype. Since these bullets are so small using straight Lino isn't a wasteful as it would be with a larger, more easily cast bullet.

[Jack Stanley]

I recently used some .224 molds including an RCBS and a Bator using lino/lead . I think it worked pretty well , though the next time I try it I might change the mix from fifty/fifty to something like two lino to one lead . The RCBS mold was easy to use and fillout was great the Lymans were just a little more tempermental . It may have just been a matter of temperature , I was casting at seven hundred and thirty perhaps another fifty degrees would have worked better .

It is a learning curve , ain't it ?

Jack

[mooman76]

Typically smaller bullets are harder to cast than larger ones. At least they are for me. Each mould has to have some adjustments to your casting. I turn the heat up a little more for smaller bullets because they don't have as much lead to heat and keep the mould hot. Also you did not say if you were top pouring or bottom. I can't say for bottom but for top make sure you have a good puddle of lead on top the sprue. It helps keep it hot and gives more pressure to fill out the base. Moulds do not need broken in but you will find they almost always do cast better after they get broken in from use.

[JeffinNZ]

I don't find casting .22's any more difficult than .30cal.

[AZ-Stew]

I don't often disagree with Hickory, but I will mention this. Call it disagreement or a difference in observations.

I recently bought two Lee moulds. One a 175 gr TC std lube groove for .40 cal., the other a 230 RN TL .45. Neither would cast unwrinkled boolits the first time I used them, but cast perfectly the second time around after a week or two sitting next to the casting pot at room temp. Both were prepped by a thorough scrubbing with dish washing soap, a toothbrush and hot water before the first casting session. No other changes were made in alloy poured (straight clip-on WW) or temperature for the second session. I've found a temp setting on my RCBS pot that works well for lead and WW. It's probably hotter than necessary for the WW, but it works. I don't mess with it.

I've had some moulds take off and cast good boolits right from the box after cleanup. Others required a casting session followed by a rest at room temp before they got with the program. Apparently, it depends on the mould. That's my experience.

Regards,

Stew

[2Tite]

I'm with JeffinNZ, I don't find the 22's hard to cast and use RCBS,Saeco and Lyman molds. I do find them tedious to check, lube and to load though.

[Charlie Sometimes]

The smaller boolit molds require a hotter mold, and those molds needs additional time preheating.

I let my small molds sit on the edge of the pot for an hour or more before I start casting with them, then it only takes 5 or 10 thrown to get to the keepers. If they frost you can back the temp down a little, if that bothers you. I don't worry about the frosting- they seem to retain lube better this way. I ladle pour too, so each mold has it's own unique way it throws the best boolits- a bigger sprue always helps force more alloy into the cavity while molten.

A hotter melt resolves many of the fill out problems- no matter the alloy.

[340six]

I cast some more 224's today and remelted the first ones and recast with them.
To get it to really fill out I had to coat the mould with Marvel Mystery Oil{so lead does not stick on it} and let it slightly sit in the pot with the hot lead prior to casting.
Had it so hot had to wait for the sprue to kool lol
I got a way better bullets thanks to the post on this thread.
I know it sounds funny to say broken in but it was a thought since other used but "like new" moulds I have drop fine from the get go.
The used Lyman 9mm TC mould I have drops perfect and makes me look like I know what I am doing.

[JIMinPHX]

I cast .22s out of an alloy that is very close to WW + 1% tin. I get good results as long as the mold is clean, the pot is good & hot, the mold is good & hot and I keep things moving quickly. I do get about a 10% reject rate with my .22's, which is higher than normal for me. I am very meticulous about inspecting my .22s. They seem a lot more sensitive to imperfections than the larger boolits when you are going for accuracy.

[twotrees]

My OLD Lyman 224450 cast fine with ww+ tin. Rejects are higher than with my bigger bullets. EXCEPT. Want to try a excersize in frustration?? Try casting 32 cal pistol boolits in a Lyman 4 cavity in a 10 Lb Lee bottom dripper. By the time the mold gets to casting temp (Preheated on the top of the pot) the danged lil pot is empty !!!!
By the time you refill, even with per-headed melt, the mold is too cold to cast with for a while.

I gotta get a New, bigger pot. Old one, 20 lb bit the dust big time, not repairable.

Keep trying it will get better.

[Greg in Malad]

340six,
You're on the right track. I use the Lyman 225415 with straight Lino and a Lee 20 lb. bottom pour with the flow rate turned way down. I run at 750* to 800*, use Bullplate and cast fast. Results speak for themself, my .223 will shoot sub 2MOA at 3000 fps and a friends .223 and 22/250 will do better.

[Marlin Hunter]

Wheel weights and Lino?

Are you sure you don't have any contamination in the lead?

The Chinese put lead in their paint, so who knows what they put in their lead. Just because it is a lead wheel weight does not mean it has a specific amount of any elements. Especially when the weights come from off shore.

If you are having problems, you should buy some lead alloy from Roto Metals (or other source). You will know the exact make-up of the alloy. It made a big difference to me and my casting when I finally used quality alloy. You do not need to buy a lot; just enough to test so you know whether it is the lead alloy or your procedure. Maybe 4 pounds. You don't even need to shoot the boolits. Just cast the boolits with the good alloy, measure them, weigh them, then keep them to melt down later to check another mold.

[HORNET]

1.)"Breaking-in" molds- There are cutting fluids in use now that are loaded with all kinds or corrosion inhibitors, biocides, and all kinds of other stuff that is not necessarily all soluble in hot soapy water. Some will also require a soak in something like mineral spirits to remove the oil-based components. A couple of heat and cool cycles can also allow these components to evaporate. It's a PITA either way....
2.) .22 cal molds have a lot of surface area compared to the amount of alloy going in on each pouring. You can get them to fill out casting with straight WW, but you have to run pretty hot and fast. Once you find a set of conditions that are working, it's a good idea to pour a BUNCH...they disappear fast anyways.

[kir_kenix]

I'm with everybody else on this one...hot hot hot, fast fast fast. I cast 3 different .22 boolits regularly, and generally hotter is better. I use a bottom pour, and a very generous sprue seems to keep the mold up to temp, and force material into the cavities.

[Jaybird62]

I have a real high reject rate with my .22 molds when I use my RCBS bottom pour. There seems to be too much variation in head pressure throughout the range of "fullness." I quit trying the bottom pour and use a dipper. Seems that the hotter the better with .22s, too. My favorite alloy is 50:50 WW and lino. Easily get 2 MOA from an AR with a 1:9 twist. I'm still looking for a powder that will work well without a case filler material, though. I'd like to get my progressive set up for .223 and raise the production rate.

[KennethF]

I use a RCBS bottom pour furnace when casting .22 boolits and only have a reject rate of 2%-3% after the mould gets up to temp. I set the temp. control knob to 775 degrees and adjust the metal flow rate at a fast dribble rather than a stream. I find that if the flow is too fast, the molten metal splashes out of the spru cutter before the cavity can completely fill and form a nice full spru on top for the boolit to draw enough metal from to finish forming the base of the boolit. This leaves a base that is not totally formed. Try more heat and reduce the rate of flow to a fast dribble rather than a good stream.

Ken

[340six]

I have a real high reject rate with my .22 molds when I use my RCBS bottom pour. There seems to be too much variation in head pressure throughout the range of "fullness." I quit trying the bottom pour and use a dipper. Seems that the hotter the better with .22s, too. My favorite alloy is 50:50 WW and lino. Easily get 2 MOA from an AR with a 1:9 twist. I'm still looking for a powder that will work well without a case filler material, though. I'd like to get my progressive set up for .223 and raise the production rate.

Whats MOA?
I ended up just weighing all the bullets that looked full as the ones that were not right were clearly not filled out in the base. I loaded up the sprue and this helped keep the mould hot some and they came out within .6 of a grain apart

[Charlie Sometimes]

.......came out within .6 of a grain apart

That's another problem with small boolits- even the slightest lack of fill out, etc. causes them to be outside tolerance. A half grain on these is like 5 on the big boolits. Casting technique means a lot, too- along with FAST and FURIOUS. These are not as forgiving.

[wistlepig1]

I tried the hotter is better today with the Lyman 438. Fewer rejects and better fill. I have not weighed them but will. Before i was getting .3-5gr, i would cull by wt .1+- eather side of the "common" bullit. If common is 45 grs, i would keep 44.9-45.1 grs, I dont know if thats right but I have been having enough trouble getting my Hornet to shot cast, I figured that is very close for that bullit wt. Does that sound right?

[HORNET]

You can't go from the manufacturer's nominal weight: too much variation from different alloys, actual cavity diameter variations as the cherry is resharpened, cavity depth variations from set-up to set-up, etc. Pick out a few samples from near the start of the casting run (as soon as things get consistent), a few more near mid-run, and a few from near the end of the run. weight them all and divide by the number of samples to get a nominal weight to use for the weight sort. This will also let you check to see if things are varying during the run so you can see if you need to make changes in technique or alloy. I usually do a quick sort on .22's of +/- 1 graduation on the approach-to-weight scale on my old Lyman scale. It's fairly close to +/- 0.1 grain and I can do a High/Low split sort from that batch's nominal if I want to refine it more.

[armyrat1970]

Whats MOA?
I ended up just weighing all the bullets that looked full as the ones that were not right were clearly not filled out in the base. I loaded up the sprue and this helped keep the mould hot some and they came out within .6 of a grain apart

Has nothing to do with casting. It is how accurate your weapon is. A rifle that will consistantly print 1" groups at 100yrds. is considered a MOA (Minute of Angle) weapon. 2" groups at 100yrds. a 2MOA weapon. Etc. Which has to do with ballistics and boolit trajectory. A .223 that consistantly will print 1/2" groups at 100yrds is considered a sub MOA weapon.
I use Lee molds and have found they really like to be run hot. The outside temperture determines how hot my melt needs to be. Colder outside, I run my temps higher because my mold tends to cool faster. Warmer temps, I can turn the heat down on the melt a little. Also larger cavity molds react different than smaller. Aluminum or cast iron or brass all react differently. It's all a learning process. Been thinking of cast for my Mini but know the .224 is harder to cast for. The smallest I am casting for now is the 30carbine.

[GabbyM]

Whats MOA?


Minute of angle is 1/60th of a degree. Doing a little math that comes out to 1.047197580733" at one hundred yards. Most just call that an inch. Moving that decimal point one space to the right takes you out to one thousand yards where one MOA is 10.47”.


For mil Dots on a scope reticle you are not using hours and minutes but radians to measure a circle. Spacing of mil dots on a scope are one milliradian center of dot to center of dot. One milliradian is just over 3.6 inches at 100 yards. Two milliradian equal about 6 feet at one-thousand yards. Size of the dot is determined by the scope manufacturer but are usually 1/4 milliradian.

[Charlie Sometimes]

I have not weighed them but will. Before i was getting .3-5gr, i would cull by wt .1+- eather side of the "common" bullit. If common is 45 grs, i would keep 44.9-45.1 grs, I dont know if thats right but I have been having enough trouble getting my Hornet to shot cast, I figured that is very close for that bullit wt. Does that sound right?


Find out what yours throws consistently, completely filled out, using the alloy of choice, and base it on that weight. Weight will change slightly with changes in alloy composition.

Secondly, I would do what the target shooters do- sort them into groups of similar weight. Use the weight with the most consistent grouping for your accurracy loads, and the others for plinking, and recycle the ones too far out side your specs back into the pot.