.360-180-3 crimp grove GROUP BUY!!starts now

[jeff223]

this is for a Lee 6 holer mold thats going to drop a boolit out at or close to .360 and is going to weight in around 180gr.this boolit is going to have three crimp groves and is going to to be a flat based boolit

total cost to you shipped to your home will be $60.00.we will be getting our boolit designer a mold this time at no expence to him

this deal will run until Oct 1st and i would expect we would be getting our new molds somethime at the end of the year of maybe even into the new year


send your payments to

Jeff Bowne
1183 Haynor Rd
Ionia Michigan 48846

i also wondered if someone could post a picture of this 3 crimp boolit?i tried to but no luck for me.this picture is posted on the other thread about this boolit group buy but its an attachment rather than a picture.i cant figure it out??

thanks alot for any help given and thanks in advance for you orders

Jeff

[Johnch]

Jeff I will send a check out in a short while .
Boy are these group buys putting a hurt on my wallet :( :(

Looks like another good looking boolit

Johnch

[357maximum]

This is gonna be a great boolit,


http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1772&d=1151856343



Hope this works,

Thanks Jeff for being the honcho on this one

[45 2.1]

Here is the boolit. When i'm done fiting it, it will fit the 35 Rem and the various pistol calibers well.

[Dutch4122]

Thanks for putting this buy together, Jeff. And thanks for letting it ride a while so that some of us can have time to re-inflate our wallets a bit. I'll be mailing in a check to you in early September.

[jeff223]

this is going to be a great deal for us and im sure this boolit design will work out of many guns

thanks for posting the picture of the boolit guys.now that its posted here i can post this group buy on the other sites and put a direct link to this buy

have a good one,
jeff

[Keith429421]

After conferring with a couple of other members, put me down for one also.
I'm brand new to this forum, but have truly enjoyed reading and learning from this forum so far.
Danny

[steveb]

Welcome to the forum Danny:)

[Wildcat]

Sent a check this morning. Looks like a great design.

[jeff223]

i got my first mold payment today in the mail

[ironduke2]

Will these boolits work in 357 Max and 35 Whelen? If so I am in. Thanks. Bob:castmine:

[Bman]

OK sorry for the newbie Q. How fast can we run this boolit w/o a gas check. I know each gun is different but in general how fast 1200-1400 fps? I do have a .38 spl that could use a heavier boolit and am looking for a good slug for a .357. Aww crap looks like I might need to find some cash between now and Oct. 1!!

[45 2.1]

These boolits should get you to 1500 fps with little problem. Even being a plain base, there are several ways to get it going faster without leading. The mold should fit just about everything out there unless the cartridge is too small to handle a 180 gr. boolit.

[jeff223]

i plan on shooting these out of a brand new 16 inch Match Grade Machine custon 357max barrel.gas checked boolits will also be used used but at higher speeds.i thought it would be nice to have some of these plain base boolits around for some target and plinking work.im sure they could be used for hunting too but the 180s with gas checks will be my boolit for that

[jeff223]

!!ive been thinking about stopping this group buy!!

after dealing with Lee Precision with their screw up on the RANCH DOG boolit mold maybe we should call this off??or maybe we should look into another company to do buisness with??

on the last deal the molds were out of spec and all Lee did was HOG out the holes to make them bigger.sure they did something about their screw up but we ended up with a mold that makes a boolit that doesnt match the spec sheet that was sent to them.i feel its a crap shoot when dealing with them.

are there any other companies we could work with to do a group buy?

if i do end up calling this deal off any payments will be returned ASAP

any ideas??

[357maximum]

I am starting to lean towards the same thoughts you are having,

If they do not want our business, and are unwilling or incapable of doing what we paid for, well I say F%^K em...Harsh I know, but hey They obviously are done wanting to do the custom deals and are going to resign themselves to selling standardized undersized sh!T, why should we put up with their crap, the mountain man will be back soon, and I have been tickled with EVERTHING he has sent me...I thought lee was gonna fix their mess up, but obviously NOT. I really hope they get the 358-180 GB right if not, the Fat flat 44 WILL NOT HAPPEN

It is totally up to them...There are other options out there...

Michael

[KYCaster]

WHOOOOOAAaaaahhhh!!......Slow down there, Jeff!... Sit down a spell.... Take a deep breath.... Count to ten......There, feel a little better now?

I didn't get in on the Ranch Dog mold. It wasn't something I thought I needed. And I feel for you guys that paid your hard-earned bucks and got something you can't use, but you have just one report on Lee's hastey attempt at a fix. Maybe if they find that this fix isn't satisfactory, you can negotiate something different, who knows?

I haven't sent any dinero for your 360-180-PB yet either, but its on my gotta have list, and I'd hate to lose out on something that could possibly be the Holy Grail of .357 boolits. (I know, you thought the same thing about the Ranch Dog .44, and see what you got!)

There have been a bunch of group buy molds from Lee started on this board. Not all of them have been successful, but all of them I have are useable. (just call me Lucky) So far, I have ten of them and have paid for another four that are still in the works, and at least three others that I want bad. That's damn near a thousand dollars worth of *** Lee Al. six banger molds. They're comming faster than I can pay for them!

Maybe my opinion doesn't mean much, after all, I'm not willing to honcho one of these deals.(I can barely keep up with what I paid for, much less what thirty other guys paid for), but I'd hate to see this turn into a pissin' contest and lose out on a source for cheap custom molds. You gotta do what you gotta do. I hope everything turns out well.

Just my $.04
Take care
Jerry

[nighthunter]

357Max .... I finally got those bullets out to you. You should have them by Wednesday or Thursday. Once again ... I'm sorry for the delay. The mountain man makes the best molds I have used in 35 years of casting. You get exactly what you pay for with no BS. I'm sure you are gonna like them as much as I do.
Nighthunter

[357maximum]

nighthunter

P.M headed your way


Lee does know about these discussions I am sure, so maybe they will get their shi..stuff together and make it good..."CUSTOM" "CUSTOMER" "SERVICE" are not words that should have to be looked up in websters, but sadly it is fastly approaching that state with most conglomerrated companies, it is a pity...

[nighthunter]

I think with most large companies today it all comes down to dollars. Management loves to quote things like the "bottom line". They also look to boost productivity while at the same time reducing the hourly work force. Outsourcing is another game played more and more. Most of these "management tools" produce inferior products and create more problems than they solve. Long range plans fail quite often in the name of dividends for share holders. If managers can make numbers look good for today it is accepted that they have done their job.
There is a big write up about the successes of Lee and their products in the August issue of the American Rifleman. To me it reads more like a commercial. I have participated in 2 group buys here. One I have recieved and had to do some work on to get it to cast better and the other is the .358-180 GB that I am waiting for. I just hope it comes about .
Nighthunter

[357maximum]

I think with most large companies today it all comes down to dollars. Management loves to quote things like the "bottom line". They also look to boost productivity while at the same time reducing the hourly work force. Outsourcing is another game played more and more. Most of these "management tools" produce inferior products and create more problems than they solve. Long range plans fail quite often in the name of dividends for share holders. If managers can make numbers look good for today it is accepted that they have done their job.
There is a big write up about the successes of Lee and their products in the August issue of the American Rifleman. To me it reads more like a commercial. I have participated in 2 group buys here. One I have recieved and had to do some work on to get it to cast better and the other is the .358-180 GB that I am waiting for. I just hope it comes about .
Nighthunter


It all comes down to one simple word----GREED

They do not care who or what it costs to get them dollars, trouble is they are constantly tripping over dollars to pick up dimes. The company I work for is getting so good at it, I may no longer have a job, it ain't looking good for me...and about 200 others...

[steveb]

The company I work for is getting so good at it, I may no longer have a job, it ain't looking good for me...and about 200 others...


I hope it all works out for you Michael. I know whats its like losing a job you been at for a good long while.

[357maximum]

I have been at the same place for 12 years, the name has changed for the third time now, everytime it gets bigger and not better. These new fools won't buy us tools to work with, but they provide us with brand new purdy trucks, so at least we look good when we are doing nothing, waiting to borrow a tool from another crew. The trucks even have this little sticker in the cab "soap and water will not harm the finish on this vehicle" I am talking all trucks here dump trucks, line trucks and pickups. What the Hell we work with, in, and under DIRT

I say let me have the old trucks you gave away at auction. keep your 50 grand for the purdy dump truck, and let me buy some damn tools for my men. I have spoken up quite loudly and on many occasions, I will be one of the first to go, I cannot say "YES" like some of the rest of em. It is never easy to do the right thing, but it is always right..I was looking for a job when I found that one anyway, what you gonna do, the only thing you can find a new one..everything happens for a reason, even if I am still clueless to it..

[Johnch]

I droped a check in the mail tonight after work


Johnch

[jeff223]

i have two payments on this deal so far.i was thinking i would be getting alot more on this group buy.maybe once the weather cools down some people will start thinking about casting and shooting again?????

[jeff223]

i have two payments on this deal so far.i was thinking i would be getting alot more on this group buy.maybe once the weather cools down some people will start thinking about casting and shooting again?????

[jeff223]

i have two payments on this deal so far.i was thinking i would be getting alot more on this group buy.maybe once the weather cools down some people will start thinking about casting and shooting again?????

[Nrut]

i have two payments on this deal so far.i was thinking i would be getting alot more on this group buy.maybe once the weather cools down some people will start thinking about casting and shooting again?????
I will most likely will get in on this GB but won't be sending my payment until mid Sept.

[357maximum]

Jeff


Lees' recent "OOPS" may be affecting the group buys, time will tell. I am so very curious how this all shakes out. I hope like hell they get the .358-180 buy correct. A 60 mold order would be a fairly expensive thing to ship back to lee. This whole malfunction on lees part proably set all the delivery dates of other buys back as well, damn the bad luck...

Michael

[jeff223]

i hear you brother.i sure hope your group buy turns out good and you guys get the molds that make the right boolits that you want.i cant wait to get my barrel back from MGM so i can start hammering those nice 180gr boolits too.i have a bunch of them waiting and ready

[mattc]

I am planing to get in on this one also but I am waiting untill I get the money together (will probably be mid Aug) so dont give up on us yet

[Dutch4122]

i have two payments on this deal so far.i was thinking i would be getting alot more on this group buy.maybe once the weather cools down some people will start thinking about casting and shooting again?????

I'm going to send a check. It's just that money is tight right now. Been in on an awful lot of group buys since March and just need some time for my checkbook to recover.

[gregg]

i have two payments on this deal so far.i was thinking i would be getting alot more on this group buy.maybe once the weather cools down some people will start thinking about casting and shooting again?????

Do you have my payment??

Gregg

ZIP- 57317

[jeff223]

****DONT SEND PAYMENTS****

i would like you guys to hold off on sending your payments to me.on the RANCH DOG mold group buy LEE PRECISION made the molds out of spec and they are dragging their feet on correcting their screw up.if they dont correct their srewup this deal is off and payments will be returned to you

sorry about this guys but im not going to HONCHO another group buy when Lee cant even produce a mold that comes close to a spec sheet that i send in with the payment.this RANCH DOG mold was something they made in the past so i would of thought they could of made it again

i will keep you guys informed,
jeff

[jeff223]

THIS DEAL IS A GO

lets get this thing going again.maybe we can get 25 or more by the cutoff date

[Pepe Ray]

also a gambol:) and soooo--
I'm putting my check in the mail today. If my sweetheart looks down and sees what I'm doin' she'll shake her head and smile. "We wont live forever Ray."
Pepe Ray

[Little Doc]

have ben waiting to see if this get going. glad to see it materalize.
puting a check in the mail today.
thanks,
little doc:drinks:

[jeff223]

im glad to see we are starting to get interest in this deal again.i will post a zip code list here soon after i receive a few more payments.

[Bad luck Bill]

Hey Jeff,

Never owned a Six banger before and this design has my interests peeked. As long as it'll be a good bullet for the .357 I'm most likely in on the group buy. How long do i have to get the money to you? I looked at the bullet and it looks pretty sweet, three crimp grooves too! gives us a lot of different options on how to load it.

BLB.

[jeff223]

i would like to end this deal on Oct 1st.i only have three people in on this group buy now but i think there will be many more jumping in very soon.

[Poohgyrr]

This GB sounds good, I just need time for the money. Mid Sept. looks good.

:drinks:

[Dutch4122]

Jeff-

Thanks for extending the time to Oct. 1st. Should have enough time to scrape the cash together. Definately don't want to miss out on this one!

[Bodydoc447]

Jeff,

Thanks for extending the GB deadline until October 1st. That is going to let me get in on it.

I should get a check in the mail to you after the first of the month (September).

Doc

[jeff223]

if we dont start getting a few more in on this deal we will have to talk about extending the dead line date some more.i guess we must wait and see just how fast things go with this one.

[357maximum]

Jeff

I too am glad you went till oct 1 as my income has taken a hit, as you know. My 35 rem would never forgive me if I missed this one. Hopefully this bullet will like BL-C2 in my old marlin so I can use some of the many pounds up.

:-D Thank you MR HONCHO :-D

[Bad luck Bill]

Is this bullet more of a rifle bullet than it is a revolver bullet?

[Poohgyrr]

Is this bullet more of a rifle bullet than it is a revolver bullet?

With three crimp groves, I plan to seat it out in Special cases and test it in my .357 wheelgun.

Also, maybe a midrange rabbit load in model 10's??

It has a lot of potential.... :Fire:

[357maximum]

Is this bullet more of a rifle bullet than it is a revolver bullet?


The design of this bullet (IMO) should allow it to be used in 38 special to 35 whelen and beyond if seated in the right crimp groove. This will be a true universal boolit. I will use it personally in 357, 357 max, 35 remington and see what happens from there.

I am sure my buddy will try some silly fast loads in his 358/06 (whelen) just to see where he starts to get bad results... he is a real push the envelope kinda fella, but he constantly amazes me with what he can do when he don't know the rules...he has been a real asset in the boolit lube testing arena. He just don't know, and don't care to know what he cannot do. I do have to keep him away from the steel gongs though, you should see what a cast boolit from that gun does to 1 inch of mild steel, simply amazing..and destructive.

Michael

[Bad luck Bill]

So...have you guys thought of going elsewhere instead of using Lee again? NEI or someone else would probably do a much better job with less of a hassle, don't you think? I take it Lyman doesn't do custom molds? Wish they did, they make excellent molds and I prefer iron rather then aluminum. You get what you pay for, know what I mean?

[jeff223]

Bill there was a tread about that awhile ago but i havent ;looked into it.

i sure hope this group buy takes off sometime soon.i only have 4 payments so far.i think this will be a good boolit but im not willing to spend the extra dollars for the setup fee on this mold deal.

do you guys think we can get a 25 mold order?

[Bad luck Bill]

I'm still sitting on the fence at the moment. I imagine the six-banger molds are of better quality then the double cavity Lee's, at least I would think so. I'm sure more people will be getting into this buy as the bullet looks good and is very versatile. I guess it's a little late to change the mold maker, huh?

[CSH]

I'll be sending a check this week. Thanks Jeff.

[jeff223]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1793&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1152393301

this is going to be a graet boolit.dont miss out on this one

[Bodydoc447]

I will get a check out to you in the mail tomorrow, Jeff. Thanks for running this group buy.

Doc

[jeff223]

i sure would like to send this order into Lee Precision on or shortly after Oct 1st with an order for 25 molds so we dont have to pay the setup fee.

think this one over boys

heres the list of zip codes of buyers so far

myself
04463
74702
66865
43445
35748

[biggome]

Thanks again for pushing this one through, I had thought about the gaschecked version of this bullet but had really wished for a plain based one and here it is!

I finally got the cash from a buddy who said he was in on this deal early on when I told him I was going to get one so you can count on two more added to your order. I know it is not going to get us over the top but at least you know you are a bit closer to the goal.

How long after the deadline should we expect to receive the molds?

Paul

[LIMPINGJ]

I will be sending funds for one mold after next payday.
Jim

[happie2shoot]

What are the actual distenceses to all three crimp groves, nose diameter, meplat,..... I am interested but I need to know what I am getting.


Thankyou
Richard

[dragonrider]

I will be getting in on this one also before the deadline. Have wanted a plain base heavy for 357 Max.

[oksmle]

Me too .... oksmle

[jeff223]

this deal is taking off now.i have a bunch of guys wanting in on the deal.

what i plan on shooting this boolit out of is a 357max G2 Contender.it will be nice casting then sizing and loading without a gas check.might even try this boolit out on deer next year,not enough time left to get the mold for this deer season.i have that nice LEE .360-180gr gas check boolit for this season unless i blastum with my 445 supermag and one of those RANCH DOGS or one of them FAT 44shttp://castboolits.gunloads.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[CSH]

Jeff, I would be willing to wait another 3 or 4 months if necessary to get to 25 moulds. If we don't have the minimum by then (say Jan 1), I would be willing to kick in some extra $ for the set up fee if we have at least 15 orders.

[jeff223]

CSH that sounds good to me.no need to hurry with this one.hunting season is almost here for most of us but this would be a nice mold to work with during the winter and in the spring.what ever it takes is fine with me.once we get 25 orders we can end it

[mattc]

this sounds like a good addition to my mold collection so put me down for one I will get a check to you before the end of the month

[targetshootr]

What is the status of this GB? I found some money in the dryer.

[iamdrglass]

Can someone direct me to the post with the actual measurments of this mold? I have seen the picture but no measurements were listed.
Thanks
Dan

[Bear4570]

This will be great out of my .35 Whelen, .35 Remington and .357 Rossi, glad to hear your in no hurry, I'm in 4 group buys now and its killing me. Next month will send off a money order, Thanks Jeff.

[Little Doc]

hey jeff,
how bout an up date here. long time no activity. is this thing going to fly? i really thought there would be more activity for the mould. thanks again for honchoing this group buy.
just curious,
little doc :coffee:

[357maximum]

Jeff is away, on a hunting trip

[jeff223]

i got b*ck from my hunting trip this morning.i shot * 4x5 mule deer buck in North D*kot* with my bow&*rrow.

i w*s gone for *little more th*n * week *nd didnt get one check in the m*il for this group buy????????????????

*nyone wh*t in ?????????????

*nd wh*ts wrong with this forum now??there seems to be *lot ** these*****throughout the forum

[Gunload Master]

Sorry Jeff. It should be fixed now. Little glitch from something I was working on :)

a

[floodgate]

Mary had a little 'plane:
Up in the sky she'd frisk.
Wasn't she a silly girl
Her little *

[Dutch4122]

Jeff-

Payment for 1 mold is going out to you today from zip 48415.

Just curious, what's the total received so far?

Thanks again,

[jeff223]

here is the updated list.
i know Dutch is sending a payment and i know 357max wants in on this deal.its going along slow but sure and im sure we will get our order of 25 molds.



one mold for 45 2.1
myself
04463
74702
66865
43445
35748
30114
73160-2511
79424
48415
48856

[357maximum]

[QUOTE=jeff223;106287]here is the updated list.
i know Dutch is sending a payment and i know 357max wants in on this deal.its going along slow but sure and im sure we will get our order of 25 molds.



Yeah, I'm in, I just haven't went through the couch cushions YET.

[EDIT] I went through the cushions, and I sent it to you today, thanks again for running this.

Michael

[Bubba w/a 45/70]

I'm definitely interested in this buy. I will be sending you a check within a week.

Can you tell me about when the moulds will be done???

Thanks, Jeff and whoever did all the footwork on this one.:Fire:

[Bubba w/a 45/70]

Jeff223,

Just seen that you were up in my country deer hunting, may I inquire as to which part???

[jeff223]

we can expect about a 90 day wait once the order is sent in.this will make my 4th group buy for Lee molds and a couple of them came early and a could of them took alittle longer

Bubba i was near Grassy Buete North Dakota mule deer hunting with bow&arrow.you have some very big mule bucks in the western part of your state.this made my 3rd time out there and i took a nice 4x5 this year. its a tuff hunt with a bow,to bad they dont give more firearm tags there but thats why you have so many big bucks there

here is another update on the zip coda list

one mold for 45 2.1
myself
04463
74702
66865
43445
35748
30114
73160-2511
79424
48415
48856

[jeff223]

im in no hurry for this mold so what do you guys think about letting it run until we get our order of 25 molds?with the hunting seasons starting in most states maybe the guys are hunting now rather than casting and shooting at the range.we might have to let this one run for a couple more months.

WHAT YOU GUYS THINK?

im all for it

[Dutch4122]

im in no hurry for this mold so what do you guys think about letting it run until we get our order of 25 molds?with the hunting seasons starting in most states maybe the guys are hunting now rather than casting and shooting at the range.we might have to let this one run for a couple more months.

WHAT YOU GUYS THINK?

im all for it

Works for me, Jeff. As long as I get mine by next spring I'll be happy. :)

[Bubba w/a 45/70]

I guess that it makes no big difference to me either. I wouldn't be hunting with it this year anyway.

[Bubba w/a 45/70]

There are plenty of gun tags to be had, you just need to be a resident. :wink:

[Pepe Ray]

Patience is a deer hunter waiting (for his Lee 6 banger):-D
Pepe Ray

[GLL]

Jeff:

My check just went into the mail bag ! :)

Jerry

"91106"

[biggome]

Damn! I almost fell asleep on this one!

My check for a pair of them will arrive soon.

Paul

[jeff223]

GREAT im glad you guys are gettin in on this one.i want an order of total of 25 or more so i dont have to monkey around getting the extra $$$ for the setup fee.

the FAT 44 group buy i ran didnt fill up so i had to have everyone send the extra $$$ for the setup fee.this Fat 44 boolit shoots very good and was a great design,the guys that missed out on the buy missed out on a great boolit.

357max has a group buy for another good one,much like the Fat 44 deal that i ran.better get in while you canhttp://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[jeff223]

one mold for 45 2.1
myself
04463
74702
66865
43445
35748
30114
73160-2511
79424
48415
48856
91106-2003

[Poohgyrr]

I checked all the dresser drawers and "It's in the mail" from 95815

:drinks:

[jeff223]

GREAT!! this boolit is a winner

send your money in and i will put you on the listhttp://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[happie2shoot]

What is the diameter of the meplat the nose and length from nose to the crimp groves.
Richard

[jeff223]

here is a picture of the boolit but i dont have a spec sheet yet.45 2.1 will take care of that once we get closer to the end of the buy.maybe he can help you out?
http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?

with this three crimp grove design the boolit will work in lots of guns

[BBA]

If it's not to late I'd like to jump in for one please. I get a paycheck this fri. Could send a check this weekend if thats ok?

[jeff223]

its not to late to get in on the deal

im going to let this GROUP BUY fill up.i have a total of 13 orders so far so that means we need another 12!!send your checks in and get in on the deal

thanks,
jeff

[jeff223]

got another one todayhttp://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

one mold for 45 2.1
myself
04463
74702
66865
43445
35748
30114
73160-2511
79424
48415
48856
91106-2003
95815

[jeff223]

we are at a stand still now with an order of 14 molds!

anyone else want in?

[KYCaster]

Yes, I definitely want one of these, but I also want a 44K and 30 cal. checks and.....???????. Just trying to space out the payments as much as possible so it doesn't hurt so much. Set a deadline and you'll probably get some more responses.

Thanks for running this.
Jerry

[0802]

Check goes out tomorrow. Zip = 22554 for shipping, 73505 on check (moved this summer).

[tall grass]

Jeff

I'll be sending you the funds for one any day now. Cash has been tight but I need one of these for the marlin 1894c and don't want to buy any more gas checks than I have to.

thanks alot

Jim

[jeff223]

here's an update of all the zip codes.i got an order today for two molds

one mold for 45 2.1
myself
04463
74702
66865
43445
35748
30114
73160-2511
79424
48415
48856
91106-2003
95815
35761--2 molds

[Lugnutz]

Hey Jeff how much longer are we gonna run this ?? Let me know here and on SP if you can incase I don't get back here for a day or three. I gotta buddy that might go in halfsies with me.

[jeff223]

im going to let this deal run till we get a total of 25 molds.im sure its going to take a few more weeks or so.dont worry you will have time to get in and thanks for the interest

[Bubba w/a 45/70]

Jeff,

I'm still interested in this mold too...I am just waiting for the monies to come through for it also. Hopefully it will still be open towards the end of Oct/beginning of Nov.

[tall grass]

Jeff


Got a M.O. in the mail headed your way. Zip=66502

thanks

Jim

[jeff223]

you guys that want in will have time as im in no hurry for this mold.its deer season now and winter is comming fast.this deal will run into November and maybe longer

[Johnch]

I am in no hurry , I have my deer ammo loaded .
:Fire: Just waiting for the chance to go hunt :Fire:

Johnch

[jeff223]

one mold for 45 2.1
myself
04463
74702
66865
43445
35748
30114
73160-2511
79424
48415
48856
91106-2003
95815
35761--2 molds
22554
66502

[jeff223]

we now have a total of 18 molds so that means all we need is 7 more.get in while you can and you wont miss out on a mold that makes a good boolit

thanks all,
jeff

[OBXPilgrim]

Sending out a money order for one of these molds also.

Hope nobody minds a new guy jumping in!!

Sorry to all others running GB's - between 357maximum & jeff223, I'm all tapped out.

I appreciate the work you guys are doing for these GB's!!

[jeff223]

im looking forward to getting your payment for this mold.i also have another one on its way and that means we are getting very close to the magic number of 25.this deal will be over soonhttp://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

then what will be next on the list of GROUP BUYShttp://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/images/icons/icon5.gif

there is something in the works and it will be very special indeed,i have talked with 357max about this and he's all for it.this will be a late fall-winter group buyhttp://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[SwedeNelson]

Check is in the mail

Swede Nelson

[jeff223]

Swede i will keep a look out for the payment and thanks

i had a PM today from a guy that wants 4 molds.if he does in fact get 4 molds this deal will be ending SOON!!!!

once we reach or number "25" i will post a date that will be one week after that.those still wanting a mold can get their payments send sent to me.once the order is sent into Lee it cant be changed.if i receive a payment after i send the order in i will just return it to the sender

!!!!IF YOU WANT IN GET IN NOW!!!!

[76 WARLOCK]

I will get a check in the mail today.

[jeff223]

GREAT and THANKShttp://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[jeff223]

one mold for 45 2.1
myself
04463
74702
66865
43445
35748
30114
73160-2511
79424
48415
48856
91106-2003
95815
35761--2 molds
22554
66502
84601
28803
80228

two more were added today and we are at 19.once i get a spec sheet i have a guy that would like 4 molds if the measurements from the crimp groves to the end of the boolit are what he needs.time will tell about this.

maybe the deal will be over soon

[Bear4570]

Afternoon Jeff, Add me to your list, a money order went out today for one.

Thanks.

[ironduke2]

Jeff. I will put my check in the mail tomorrow. Zip 17241. Thanks Bob:castmine:

[45 2.1]

once i get a spec sheet i have a guy that would like 4 molds if the measurements from the crimp groves to the end of the boolit are what he needs.


End of nose to crimp grooves are: 0.300", 0.350" & 0.400"

[jeff223]

thankyou kind sirhttp://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/images/icons/icon14.gif

[jeff223]

one mold for 45 2.1
myself
04463
74702
66865
43445
35748
30114
73160-2511
79424
48415
48856
91106-2003
95815
35761--2 molds
22554
66502
84601
28803
80228


total of 20 now

[Bubba w/a 45/70]

Check for mold will be in mail on Thursday from 58533.

[Boomer Mikey]

I guess one more on the shelf won't make any difference; if I don't, I'll be sorry I didn't, I shouldn't, but then I couldn't.

My check will be in the mail today.


Boomer

[45 2.1]

Answers to asked questions:
The meplat is 0.280" and the nose diameter at the crimping groove is 0.352".

[jeff223]

thanks alot

[jeff223]

one mold for 45 2.1
myself
04463
74702
66865
43445
35748
30114
73160-2511
79424
48415
48856
91106-2003
95815
35761--2 molds
22554
66502
84601
28803
80228
17241-9430
42701
54213-9742

total of 23 now!
get in while you still can.i will be closing this off any day now

thanks,
jeff

[LIMPINGJ]

Payment for 1 will be in the mail tomorrow.
Jim

[jeff223]

very good and thanks

[Dutch4122]

Great job on this one, Jeff. I'm sure it's gonna be well worth the wait! :):):):):)

P.S. My .357 Trails End carbine thanks you as well!

[jeff223]

ive had a request for a measuremant of .360 all they way to the front driving bands and also would like to have rounded lube groves rather than squared off ones.what do you think boolit designer?please?

here is an updated list and we are at 25 NOW!

one mold for 45 2.1
myself
04463
74702
66865
43445
35748
30114
73160-2511
79424
48415
48856
91106-2003
95815
35761--2 molds
22554
66502
84601
28803
80228
17241-9430
42701
54213-9742
58533
94591-7304

[Bodydoc447]

I'm not the bullet designer. But I really like the bullet as drawn with squared grease grooves. I wouldn't change a thing. Just my 2 cents worth.

Doc

[dragonrider]

Jeff I'll get an MO out tommorow. PM me your address.
Thanks.

[45 2.1]

ive had a request for a measuremant of .360 all they way to the front driving bands and also would like to have rounded lube groves rather than squared off ones.what do you think boolit designer?please?

I answered your PM, but it didn't seem to go. The 0.360" runs to the front crimping groove band. I don't care for the round grooves at all. Something Keith did on his original boolit designs taught me something that will be put on all of the subsequent designs you see from me. It works quite well and has been forgotten by the mold makers, so, no round grooves.

[jeff223]

here is an updated zip code list

this deal is going to close on November 10th!!still time to get in if you want but i would like to have a check ready to shipped out to Lee on Nov 11.any payments received after Nov 10th will be returned to sender.

thanks all for your orders

thanks for the info 45 2.1


one mold for 45 2.1
myself
04463
74702
66865
43445
35748
30114
73160-2511
79424
48415
48856
91106-2003
95815
35761--2 molds
22554
66502
84601
28803
80228
17241-9430
42701
54213-9742
58533
94591-7304
60561
48032


***THIS DEAL ENDS NOV 10TH***

[neerb]

M.O. went in mail this morning. Thanks Dave

[threett1]

I've waited long enough. Check will be in the mail today from 64062.

[jeff223]

one mold for 45 2.1
myself
04463
74702
66865
43445
35748
30114
73160-2511
79424
48415
48856
91106-2003
95815
35761--2 molds
22554
66502
84601
28803
80228
17241-9430
42701
54213-9742
58533
94591-7304
60561
48032
75440
46307

i just added another one to the list and there is still time to get in on this deal.this deal will end on
NOV 10th.i want to send the check into LEE on the 11th day of NOV.payments received after the 10th are out of luck.SORRY ABOUT THAT but you still have time

thanks everyone for your orders

[dragonrider]

MO is in the mail. Thanks.

[jeff223]

Richard from Idaho!!

do you still want in on the deal or you going to pass on this one?

let me know,
jeff

[Cayoot]

Dang! I tried to resist this! I was hoping my will power would hold out until the GB closed! I almost made it too!:(

*Sigh* ...... PM sent

[jsm02f]

After sitting on the fence for too long, I sent a postal MO out today. Thanks.

[Cayoot]

:drinks: I just got back from the post office....check has been sent to you!

[jeff223]

45 2.1 i sent you a PM!!

there is a member here that would like to speak with you please about this boolit before he buys a mold.his forum name is happie2shoot.there is also a phone number in the PM i sent you.

thanks,
jeff

[jeff223]

here is an updated zip code list

Tom Meyers
myself
04463
74702
66865
43445
35748
30114
73160-2511
79424
48415
48856
91106-2003
95815
35761--2 molds
22554
66502
84601
28803
80228
17241-9430
42701
54213-9742
58533
94591-7304
60561
48032
75440
46307
49783
01525
64062
32309
15061-2442

[ironduke2]

Jeff. Is the design of the boolit being changed? I got a PM saying that the boolit is changing. I may want to back out, if this happens. I would like to see the design of this boolit. Thanks. Bob:castmine:

[threett1]

I second that motion!! Why? Several guys, including my friend in this with me wants to have flexibility with it. (bottleneck cartridges)

[Wildcat]

I agree. I wanted to be able to use this mould for my .35 Remington. If thats not going to be possible based on a redesign, I'm no longer interested.

[Bear4570]

My whole reason for this one was for my .35 Remington and .35 Whelen, as I have plenty of .35 cal molds for my handguns with straight wall cases, if it will not work in those chambers being they are bottle neck, I would no longer be interested in this group buy.

[KYCaster]

Same here.

Tell us what's going on, Jeff......fact or fiction?

Jerry

[Pepe Ray]

It may be best to post side by side drawings of the original design and the proposed changed design ,BOTH with dimensions.
Pepe Ray

[jeff223]

we will go with the spec and design that 45 2.1 comes up with for now but i would like a picture of the spec sheet posted here for all to see.i feel he is designing the boolit to fit his needs and not the majority of the buyers in on this buy.the only change i wanted was to have the boolit measure in at a full .360 all the way to the front driving band and not smaller.i am only thinking of the buyers here.after doing some resurch i feel this boolit wont even work out of my gun but thats not a big deal as my mold is going to someone else at this point.after 45 2.1 posts the spec sheet you can deside then.

this boolit was to be an all around boolit to fit a bunch of guns (rifles and pistols).thats why it was to be a full .360 and you guys can size to what you want.if you decide you want out shoot me your zip code and i will destroy your checks and you can adjust your accounts,money orders will be returned.

so!! will you please post the design spec sheet here so all can see?
thankyou
jeff

PS: i want to thankyou 45 2.1 for getting all the BS going here.remember i am the HONCHO on this deal not you.you want to HONCHO a deal just step up to the plate

[threett1]

OK, we are into the war zone now. The one thing I have enjoyed about this forum is the "good old boy" attitudes and everyone helping helping somebody else. I like the mold as pictured at the start. If that will be it, I want it. But please, no wars.

[jeff223]

ive been in contact with 45 2.1 with PMs only and i have decided i will not need his spec sheet.i have been in contact with another boolit designer and he will fix us up with what ever we need

heres a link to my PMs with 45 2.1 (read and enjoy)
http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/private.php?do=showpm&pmid=69951

i will have a couple of spec sheets posted here for you guys to look over.get with me and sorry about this other BS

jeff

[Cayoot]

I keep getting an "Invalid Link" message when I try to use your link Jeff.

[45 2.1]

If anybody wants to see the entire PM deal between jeff and myself, PM me and i'll send it to you. Jeff, you will get farther in life by not treating people who help you like a servant with no imput. I will not supply you with drawings or work with you again either. No war, just some facts folks.

[jeff223]

here you go guys i made a copy of the PMs.must be the link is blocked because its a PM

Originally Posted by jeff223
Quote:
Originally Posted by 45 2.1
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff223
Quote:
Originally Posted by 45 2.1
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff223
i would like to have the spec sheet changed so the boolit will measure a full .360 infront of the first crimp grove.ive been in contact with another boolit designer and we talked about this on the phone.i asked you to come up with the design of this boolit first so im giving you the first shot at it and your payment will be a mold for free.can you take care of this for me?if not the other designer will take care of it for me and the others.this other designer will post the spec sheet on my group buy tread too if i ask him too.will you do that too please?

let me know what you come up with and thanks,
jeff

Which buy would this be for? The new one or the present 360 3 crimp groove 180 gr.?

45 2.1,
this would be for the three crimp grove 180-.360 plain base group buy that ends tomorrow Nov 10th

thanks again,
jeff

Jeff-
If you change the nose spec at this time on the current buy, your name will be Mud. The intent was to fit rifles, not handguns. I will no t change it on the current buy, period and if you do, there will be some major problems with the buyers.



will you please post the spec sheet on the open forum so all can see.if not i will have the other designer post his.this is my deal and im running the show at this point.im doing the work and you are the designer only.

thanks,
jeff

PS:thanks for getting all the BS going on the open forum

jeff, young fella-
Your getting a little to uppity and snotty since I don't work for you. People don't exist to do what you want. Without a designer and drawings, you haven't got much of anything. I you keep this up, i'll send this entire PM to all the buyers. I might post some dimensions if asked to by the GB participants too, if they all ask.
__________________
45 2.1

Knowledge without understanding is a dangerous thing. For a little knowledge entices us to walk its path, a bit more provides the foundation on which we take our stand, and a sufficient amount can erect a wall of knowledge around us, trapping us in our own ignorance.

[jeff223]

i just got off the phone with Tom Meyers my new boolit designer and he will be posting two spec sheets on Sunday 11-12-06 for this group buy.

both of these spec sheets will be posted together so you can look them over

one will be .360 in front of the first crimp grove and the other one will be smaller than that

have a great night,

jeff

here is an updated zip code list

Tom Meyers
myself
04463
74702
66865
43445
35748
30114
73160-2511
79424
48415
48856
91106-2003
95815
35761--2 molds
22554
66502
84601
28803
80228
17241-9430
42701
54213-9742
58533
94591-7304
60561
48032
75440
46307
49783
01525
64062
32309
15061-2442

[Lugnutz]

Jeff what was wrong with the first design? Seems to me you sold 25 of these as is, now you want to change it up? Why not finish this the way it is and start a new buy with the bigger meplat?

If you insist on changing it then do so, but if you do I'm ok with pulling out.

HEY MARK PULL OUT IF THIS DOES NOT FIT YOUR NEEDS For the 356 Winnie I'll use the JSP and I can use anything in my 357 Revolter. The Encore could maybe use this. BUT IF YOU ARE NOT HAPPY FOR ANY REASON ( i.e. bait and switch selling tactics )THEN ASK FOR YOUR MONEY BACK we can buy something later if we want. Who knows we might find that heavy 41
:drinks:

[jeff223]

Rick lets not jump to conclusions here.i wanted the spec sheet out in plain veiw so all could see whats on it.there is no baiting and switching here at all.everything with me is in the open,thats why i posted the PMs.i think all group buys should have the spec sheet posted from the start.if i ever do another group buy Tom has no problem posting the spec sheets from the start.

there were a few questions asked about the boolit design and the boolit spec and i asked them along the way.one thing lead to another and here we are.

im not going to try and stop anyone from geting out of the group buy.like i stated above,you want out and you sent a check i will distroy your check and you can correct your checking account balance.if a money order was sent i will return that to you.

please take the time to checkout the spec sheets on Sunday before you make your move

thanks
jeff

[Lugnutz]

Jeff sorry if I sounded harsh. I'll hang on till Sunday if my buddy is in the same boat with me.

[threett1]

I'm hangin. Got some deer to shoot anyways.:mrgreen:

[CSH]

I'll wait to see the drawings, but I'm probably out if the nose in front of the first crimp groove is .360".

[jeff223]

guys i just got an email form TOM and the designs are awsome.they will be posted here for you tomorrow,to bad i cant figure how to get them from the email to here.if there is a split in this deal and you guys are willing to wait i will run two groups buys so all can be happy.this is the best i can offer to you

here is something you can look at until TOM posts the spec sheet.i shot this mule deer buck in North Dakota this last Sept with a bow&arrow.i just wanted to show you guys you are dealing with a real person and not just some clown on the internet

have a good day
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid216/p7434d4dc61628b2fcfaf185da7e75b0e/ec8f1064.jpg

[dragonrider]

Obviously there is a pissing contest going on here, who is right or wrong does not matter to me, my position is that bunch of molds were agreed to be bought on the strength of the original design, now at the end of said buy someone, who is not posting on this thread, has initiated a call for a change in design.
Post by Jeff223:
"ive had a request for a measuremant of .360 all they way to the front driving bands and also would like to have rounded lube groves rather than squared off ones"
No one who has sent in funds has expressed any delight about changing the design this late in the game. As I said above I agreed to the original design, weather that design is better or worse than changes being "requested" does not matter. if there are any changes I'm out.

[jeff223]

you can get out at any time you want my friend.it seems that people are getting all in an up roar over nothing.there hasnt even been a spec sheet posted up to this point.the only spec we have are the ones that were posted because someone asked me a question and that got me thinking.most of the guys that got in on this deal was from looking at a picture of a boolit and a promice it would work.i feel from now on a spec sheet should be posted from the start and will be if i run another group buy

have a good one

[Cayoot]

Thanks for the great photo Jeff.

As to the boolit design...I'm just looking for something very similar to a past .358-180 gb that I bought the mould for. This baby will print 5 shots touching each other at 30 yards out of my 686 when packed over 15.1 grains of IMR 4227. The only difference I was looking for was a plain base instead of a gas check. Those gcs are a pain and I don't think that they are necessary in a .357 revolver, which is what I use.

So I'm just looking for a great big meplat at about 180 grns with a plain base. I'm really hoping that it will be as accurate as my gas check.

I want it in my 686 and a future Marlin .357 carbine.

If it fills those rolls, then I don't care about any thing else on the boolit.

Just my $.02 (actually $.00347 after inflation).

Bary

[Tom Myers]

For your consideration.
Drawn and scaled to the specifications provided by jeff223.
Tom Myers

http://www.tmtpages.com/LinkSkyImages/Custom%20Lee%206C_360.gif (http://www.tmtpages.com/LinkSkyImages/Custom%20Lee%206C_360.gif)

http://www.tmtpages.com/LinkSkyImages/Custom_Lee_6C_360-360-180_180_gr_Sketch.gif




Precision Ballistics and Records (http://www.tmtpages.com)






http://breeze.linksky48.com/~tommyers/LinkSkyImages/Custom_Lee_6C_360-360-180_180_gr_Sketch.gif

http://breeze.linksky48.com/~tommyers/LinkSkyImages/Custom_Lee_6C_360-352-180_180_gr_Sketch.gif

[Cayoot]

I'm sticking with my last post...
I'm just looking for a very accurate boolit of this basic profile with a plain base that will shoot well out of my .357 revolvers (S&W 686 and Ruger Blackhawk) and out of a Marlin .357 carbine that I'm hoping to get soon.

Will both of these boolits fulfill that role?

If so, then I don't care which one we go with. I'll leave the discussing and cussing to the rest of you.

Bary

[Poohgyrr]

I'm sticking with my last post...
I'm just looking for a very accurate boolit of this basic profile with a plain base that will shoot well out of my .357 revolvers (S&W 686 and Ruger Blackhawk) and out of a Marlin .357 carbine that I'm hoping to get soon. Will both of these boolits fulfill that role? If so, then I don't care which one we go with. I'll leave the discussing and cussing to the rest of you. Bary


Same here I think, although I'm more concerned with my Winchester Trapper and Miroku M92. I just want a flat base mold that works in these Levers.

If either of these molds won't work in my Smith's, then a head's up would be appreciated.

[jeff223]

TOM YOU ARE THE MAN
and thankyou for posting these here for me

if you guys remember alittle over a year ago i ran a group buy on a gas checked 180gr boolit that measured .360 and 357max ran the same deal this last summer.both of those group buys were a big deals with alot of buyers.guys got in that shot both pistols and rifles and most were very happy with the boolit design.when i started this group buy i wanted a boolit with about the same spec and design but this one would be a boolit with a plain base rather than a gas checked based boolit.with the 3 crimp groves the boolit would be even more useful.here is the boolit in talking about.this boolit design runs a full .360 out in front of the crimp grove
http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1330&d=1145634936

all three boolits have the same sized meplat that being .280 and the overall length of all three are about the same.my personal thoughts are the .360-.360-180 is the way to go over the .360-.352-180

your thought please and thanks again Tom for posting this for me

[tall grass]

Jeff

I got in on your GB of the C 360 180 RF and I was under the impression that this current design would have the same nose profile as or close to the the same. I have a Marlin 1894c 357 that I will be feeding these to and don't want a small nose that isn't supported. I'm glad this came to light as I wasn't aware that the drawing we first saw was bore ride or less. I think we need to see critical dimentions at the least before the GB gets to this stage.

I'm sorry about all this trouble on this GB. It just seems to be a lack of good comunication and understanding between everyone.

later

Jim

[0802]

Have been watching all this drama from afar, but still have one basic question. Will this bullet fit a 336 chambered in 35 Rem? That is the fundamental reason I entered into this one, as it was originally posted that the final design would be . . .

Josh

[jeff223]

Josh this .360-.360-180 should work for you.the gas checked Lee boolit from my other group buy is being shot out of a bunch of rifles with great results,that boolit is a good all around boolit.the .360-.360-180 will be the same.im sure glad i was able to hookup with Tom Myers for design so everything is out in the open for all to see.too bad it wasnt alittle sooner

[Cayoot]

Jeff,
I was in on the original group buy (with the gas check). I love that boolit...when I pack it over 15.1 grains of IMR 4227 I can get a 25 yard, 5 shot group out of my 686+ that has all rounds touching or so close to touching that I count it the same.:-D

The only thing I don't like about it is the gas check....something that (IMHO) is more trouble than it's worth in a revolver. I was thinking that this (new gb) would be the same boolit but with a plain base configuration.

However, I have not tried this in a lever rifle...do you know if the original boolit functioned in a lever action?

I'm abit confussed (my normal state of being)....was the original .352?

I guess if the original was .352, and it will function in a lever gun, then I don't really care what way this boolit goes...as long as it works in my handguns. Because, with both gbs, I should be able to cover both carbine and revolver....am I correct on this assumption?

Or (more likely), am I confusing the situation even more with my questions?:???:

[Cayoot]

Sorry, I guess I was typing my last post just as you were posting yours.

So the impression that I'm getting is that the original (gc version) works well in lever guns....and that either of these should work well in a revolver....

If that is the case...then I don't care which we go on these.

Please just confirm these things for my addled, swamp water soaked brain.

Thanks

Bary

[jeff223]

Cayoot the .360-.360-180 should be just the ticket for you.the more bearing surface you have the greater the accuracy.i sure wouldnt want a small nosed boolit unsupported in a pistol cylinder or in a throat of a rifle chamber.

the gas checked boolit group buy that i ran had a good number of buyers and so did the buy that 357max ran.leftoverdj also ran a group buy on this same boolit mold a couple of years ago and this design brings very good reports.the 360-360-180 three crimp grove plain base will be a winner too,its about the same boolit

[Cayoot]

Thanks Jeff,
That's all I needed to hear. Keep my check and also keep the deal we made on the GC's eh?

Thanks

Bary

[Boomer Mikey]

I prefer the .360-.352-180 design as it is the most versatile. The .352 diameter will center the bullet in the bore of a rifle and leave more room for powder as the boolit can be seated out longer in the case.

If you want the section between the top crimp groove and the ogive to be .360 you only need to swage them slightly during sizing to bump the boolit diameter out to the sizing die diameter. For that matter, you can bump .358 boolits out to .360 diameter just as easily with ww or #2 metal.

It's much harder to go the other way, you could re-size the .360 nose to .352 by partial sizing with a .352 die but this takes another custom die.

All the standard mold manufacturers have plenty of molds available at full diameter from the base to the ogive. This is an opportunity to get a "custom" mold that can work for just about any .357 - .360 firearm out there with a boolit weight that is optimum for all the straight wall cartridges and yet short enough to keep the base of the bullet in a bottleneck case neck.


Boomer :Fire:

[felix]

The 352 sillywet outshoots the 360 nosed cowboy:

[CSH]

I could live with either design, but my vote is for the 360-352.

Jeff, it appears that Tom's drawings spec optimal bullet measurements. Will the drawings you provide to Lee spec bullet dimensions, or cavity dimensions? I'm sure you're aware of Lee's guarantee if the drawing is for the bullet.

[jeff223]

all im going to do is send Lee Precision one of the spec sheets above for the mold.

better hash this out before the end of November because i would like the deal to go into Lee.once your checks are cashed and the deal is sent into Lee you are locked in for good.you can only get out of the deal before i cash the checks and send the deal in.we have only had a few guys stating they want the smaller nosed boolit and if we go with the fat nose boolit there will be a couple of other guys getting in

talk this over please

[76 WARLOCK]

I prefer the 360-360-180 80228

[KYCaster]

.360 nose, please.

Jerry

[ironduke2]

I qm ok with what ever will work with my .35 Rem and .35 Whelen also my NEF. From what I see either one will work. So keep me in with ever one you decide on. Thanks. Bob.:castmine:

[Cayoot]

I just ran into a problem...

I bought a new set of .357 Dies (Hornady) and gave away my old OLD RCBS .357.

I was upstairs loading some of the original 357-180 gas check boolits and I find that the boolit won't fit in my crimp die! I even removed the seating stem and tried to crimp and seat in seperate steps.....the crimp tube engages the boolit and pushes it further down into the case......WOE IS ME@!!!!!!

Any advice? What dies are you guys using to load the old .360 boolit with?

[jeff223]

there seems to be more interest in the .360-.360-180 than the smaller nosed boolit and it sure looks like thats the one we will go with.i did have one request from dragonslayer to get out and his money order will be sent out to him tomorrow.(only money orders will be returned,checks will be destroyed and you can adjust your accounts if you want out)

cayoot i use Lee 357mag dies for all my reloading for my 357max with all boolits from cast to jacketed.they will crimp them all.maybe they need some adjusting??dont know whithout seeing them

[Boomer Mikey]

I just ran into a problem...the crimp tube engages the boolit and pushes it further down into the case.
Any advice? What dies are you guys using to load the old .360 boolit with?

Hi Cayoot,

Oversize bores are a real pain as you literally need to get another set of dies and make "adjustments" (make them sloppy enough) to work with oversize boolits.

The newer Redding, RCBS, Lyman, Hornady, etc. dies have tighter tolerances and a slightly different design than the Lee seater die.

You can polish your Hornady seater die sliding sleeve inside diameter to fit your oversize boolit. Remove the clip on the bottom of the seater die and remove the sliding sleeve. Chuck the sleeve in a lathe or a drill motor then wrap some 320 grit silicon carbide finishing paper around a 1/4" piece of rod or wooden dowel and polish the inside diameter of the sleeve until your boolit fits. This will take some time as the sleeve appears to be heat treated. I did this to a Hornady 44 mag seater sleeve last week to fit .434 boolits. You may also need to open up the crimp step inside the seater sleeve to prevent it from touching the boolit as well.

The easiest solution would be to buy the Lee seater die.

Boomer

[Bubba w/a 45/70]

As long as it still feeds through a Rossi 92, it doesn't matter too much to me. The larger meplat looks even better for what I wanted it for anyways.

[txbirdman]

I just got a Marlin 1894C and would like to try a 180 gr. bullet in it for small whitetail deer but I'm thinking the GC design would be better for my purposes. Is anyone thinking of going to this new design and getting rid of their 180 GC? Also will these bullet feed in a '94 Marlin?

[jeff223]

i might start a 35cal- 200gr gas check boolit deal sometime soon.if i do there will be a spec sheet posted from the start.keep your eyes open for the deal .

it looks like we are going to loose only one buyer on this deal.im goung to let this run for another ten days so people can still get in or anyone wanting out can do so up till then.

****THIS WILL END NOV.24th****

(we will be going with the .360-.360-180 boolit)
more interest in that one based on the input here and from my PMs

****THIS WILL END NOV.24th****

[tall grass]

The 352 sillywet outshoots the 360 nosed cowboy:

Felix

So are you saying that the .352" nose on this bullet will shoot better? The 360--180 RF gas check boolet seems to fit the throat in my Marlin 357 about as well could be asked. I can see how the .352" would probably fit the 35 Rem. better when set out to the bottom or middle groove.

Just wondering why?

Jim

[felix]

No. I was comparing shapes for longer range rifles. The boolit must fit the gun to shoot good, and the older 35 rem marlins do have a very short short leade and no freebore that I can tell (no chamber cast). ... felix

[CSH]

Bubba, if you take a look at the drawings they both have the same size meplat.

The .360 nose may or may not shoot better than the .352 nose depending on fit, but as Felix has indicated, the larger nose might present chambering difficulties in some rifles, especially lever actions. If you plan to use this bullet in a 35 lever, I would be inclined to make a chamber cast to check the freebore. My limited experience with the Marlin 336 in 35 Remington leads me to believe the bullet would have to be seated so deeply that the first crimp groove might not be available unless the noses are resized in another die. Your particular rifle might be OK in this regard, but I would double check if that is the primary application for this bullet. I'm staying in this buy even though I would rather have the smaller nose (the larger one will fit my 35 Whelen), so I'm not trying to stir the pot. I just hope the rifle shooters are aware that some fit issues may arise.

[357maximum]

Jeff....


Alot of things happened on this while I was hunting....whew....Personally....and do not take this as an attack....The .360.360 will NOT fit my 336 in 35 rem very well without getting creative...so if that is what the group decides at this late stage I am out....If you go with the original agreed upon "UNIVERSAL" nose profile..I am still in...

Not trying to fuel the pissing contest or nothing..It comes down to the fact that the .360.360 simply will not fit my short throated 1950's 336 pre micro groove, and that is what I wanted it for....there was very good reasons Bob was designing it as an all around boolit...with TM's 360.360 design it will be a 357/357 max boolit for the most part...not well suited for most the 35 rem marlins out there....

Just my .02 and nothing personal...just the way it is...

Michael T...

[Pepe Ray]

Referencing the .350-180RFN/GC-GB of late summer. AsI understand it , this is the precurser to the current .360-.360 PBFN GB. Wellll--I've been casting some samples using various alloys. (NOT FINISHED TESTING YET) .
With pure lead (flashing). and BHN10, seated in 357Mag case at forward crimp groove, I can not get them to feed thru the action of one of my M92 Rossi's.(My favorite one.)
I'll be casting harder boolets and including a second carbine in future tests.
Yes, it will chamber without marking the boolet if I single load it. Heads Up!
Pepe Ray

[KYCaster]

Referencing the .350-180RFN/GC-GB of late summer. AsI understand it , this is the precurser to the current .360-.360 PBFN GB. Wellll--I've been casting some samples using various alloys. (NOT FINISHED TESTING YET) .
With pure lead (flashing). and BHN10, seated in 357Mag case at forward crimp groove, I can not get them to feed thru the action of one of my M92 Rossi's.(My favorite one.)
I'll be casting harder boolets and including a second carbine in future tests.
Yes, it will chamber without marking the boolet if I single load it. Heads Up!
Pepe Ray


Ray: That boolit (ACWW) feeds just fine in my Rossi, but doesn't stabilize. Every load I've tried, from 900 to 1500 fps. shows out of round holes in the target.
I'm hoping this PB design will do better.

Jerry

[tom barthel]

I want in on this GB. My check will be in the mail before 5:00 PM tommorrow. My zip 74403.

[threett1]

I'm still in after digesting the proceedings. Just hope it fits Lug's 356 and 358imp.

[Boomer Mikey]

I agree with Michael,

If the group decides on the .360-.360-180 at this late stage I'm out....If you go with the original agreed upon "UNIVERSAL" .352 nose diameter profile..I'm still in...

I don't care if the buy goes with the .360-.360-180, I just don't need one of those.

Those of you that are interested in the .352 nose may be interested in the Saeco #396 mold. This flat base design boolit has a .352 nose... The same boolit with a gas check base is the #399.

Felix, Thanks for the tip!


Boomer :Fire:

[ironduke2]

After reading 357 maximum post , I need to know if this will work in my marlin. Its a 336CS micro-grove s/n starts with 120. Don't know what year it is. If its like the rim fire you subtract 12 from 2000 which would make it a 1988. If it will work I'm still in, if it won't than I'm out. Thanks . Bob:castmine:

[jeff223]

im sure sorry about this mixup guys.i guess i wasnt on top of things from the start.i dont have any use for a small nosed boolit at all .the .360-.360-180 is the one thats going into Lee

shoot me a PM or just post your zip code on the open forum and i will take you off the list.money orders will be returned and personal checks will be destroyed

357max (Mike) i will be sending your money order back to you today

[biggome]

Eeeeesh!

I don't know where my order is at, I am the guy who sent payment in for two molds.

I planned on using the bullet mainly in my 16" Rossi .357 Mag. and sparingly in my 'ole 3-screw Blackhawk seated deeply (real deep to be able to feed) over 13.5 or so grains of WC-820 PD. Commercial 180 grain (173 grain actual wt.) T.C. boolits shot well with this loading and std primers giving 1550 fps out of the Rossi.

I don't see any problems with the 360-360-180 in my application, the problem my arise for my buddy wanting the other mold. He has numerous .357Mag. wheelguns as well as a NEF .357 Mag., a 35 Whelen Mauser and a 336 Marlin in 35 Remington. He is hard to get ahold of and he may be out on the deal now though since I am keeping his dog I hope to see him soon enough to beat the deadline.

Paul

[jeff223]

Paul do you see your zip code posted?
if not shoot me your name and address please

[jeff223]

ive been contacted by someone about these lever action guns.if you were to go to the Beartooth boolit site there is some info there about fixing these lever guns so they will feed the bigger nosed boolits.from what im told its a simple fix

just thought i would relay the message

[oksmle]

Jeff .... I've looked on Beartooth's site & haven't located the info. Help please.

oksmle

[happie2shoot]

Go to beartooth bullets, then tips & comments, them go down to modifying marlin 1894's cartridge stop Richard

[oksmle]

Got it. Thanks .... oksmle

[jeff223]

i thought you guys might like to read this.i got an email that had this info from the Beartooth boolit site

Modifying Marlin 1894's Cartridge Stop By Marshall Stanton on 2001-04-07


The Marlin 1894 is sometimes finicky in it's COL limitations; however, there is a relatively easy fix for the problem. The cartridge lifter that brings the cartridge up from the magazine tube to the bolt has a cartridge stop on it. In the Marlin 1894 it is a simple matter of disassembling the action and removing this cartridge lifter. Once out, you may take a mill flat file and carefully mill back the front face of the cartridge lifter 0.100" of an inch without adversly affecting the action feeding reliability. Once done, any of the bullets with up to and including a .450" nose to crimp length will work great in your Marlin 1894.

This project is rather simple, and if not rushed is easy to accomplish. You will have the benefit of using just about any bullet you could possibly desire, and perfectly reliable feeding of those bullets.

[Boomer Mikey]

If you were paying attention you would realize it isn't an oal issue!

What does the diameter of the nose have to do with oal?

Why would you modify your rifle's carrier to feed a cartridge that won't chamber?

Cartridges that are too long to feed have an oal issue.

.360" boolit nose won't chamber into a .350" hole (short throat or longer bullet).

.358 bore minus .004" rifling X2 = .350" hole for the nose to fit into. Add .002" (.001" on each side to engrave boolit) = .352" optimum bullet nose diameter. .357" bore a little heavier engraving. .359" bore a little lighter engraving.

Use a pin gage set to determine the diameter of the bore on top of the rifling lands. .360" is great for the bottom of the lands not the top. You have control over the outside diameter of the boolit with a sizing die.

Boolits with an ogive radius nose were designed for use in rifles with the nose extend into the rifling. This is of no importance in revolvers and the reason why semiwadcutters, wadcutters, truncated cone, and Kieth style boolits typically work better in them than round nose flat points or round nose designs as there is more bearing surface in the bore.

[oksmle]

Boomer Mikey .... What I was concerned about was the proper feeding in lever action rifles. The 360-180 GC bullet from our recent group buy has only one crimping groove. When crimped in that groove two shooters to whom I mailed bullets told me that their rifles (one a Marlin 94 & the other a Rossi 92) jammed while trying to chamber. They also said that once they crimped above the crimp groove the rounds chambered just fine. In my Rossi 92 I did not have that problem. My hope is that the bullet we are ordering (having the flexibility of three crimping grooves) will have that problem solved. As to the .360 diameter; anyone who ordered the .360-180 GC bullet & is now using it should also be able to use the .360-180-3 crimp bullet in the same firearm because the ogive & metplate are the same as the .360-180 GC. My understanding is that the two bullets are made to the same specs except for the later one having two extra crimp grooves & a plain base. If I'm in error someone please correct me.

oksmle

[Cayoot]

I might be completely off base here (I usually am it seems), but I was thinking....why not just turn the boolit over and carefully size it through the .358 or .359 sizing die. This will size the diamether down to the size that each of us wants (for those who want a smaller boolit). Better yet, run it nose first through a Lee sizing die?

I'm working away from home (as usual) this week and cannot try this yet with the original gb boolit. (I didn't bring any reloading equipment to the hotel), but when I get home, I'm thinking that I'm going to try this.

Do you guys think I'm wrong in this thinking?

[45 2.1]

The 3 crimp groove feature is going to be about worthless with a .360" nose, but your going to find that out for yourselves. Cayoot & oksmle, you should look up Glenn's original boolit drawing and read Boomer Mikeys last post until you understand it.

[jeff223]

well thanks for your input about this guys .im glad we have this all hashed out now.this should be a deciding factor for a couple of guys in on the deal

this deal closes on Nov 24th and you can get out up till then.once the deal is sent in your locked in
!!!ANYONE THAT WANTS OUT GET OUT NOW!!!there is still time

and a special thanks to you 45 2.1 dont know what i would do without youhttp://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/images/icons/icon12.gifmake sure you look over the posts from all the buyers so you can weed them out as you see fit.once thats done your buisness will be done here

[45 2.1]

well thanks for your input about this guys .im glad we have this all hashed out now.this should be a deciding factor for a couple of guys in on the deal

this deal closes on Nov 24th and you can get out up till then.once the deal is sent in your locked in
!!!ANYONE THAT WANTS OUT GET OUT NOW!!!there is still time

and a special thanks to you 45 2.1 dont know what i would do without youhttp://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/images/icons/icon12.gif


I'm always happy to help out the GB participants with understanding changes that have been wrought on them. Interesting thing that you noted that you think that we all have this hashed out now. You should know as your the Honcho. :-D

[jeff223]

45 2.1 you are starting to act like an internet "TROLL"
if you want to PM the others concerning these matters than do so but if you continue with this on my group buy tread i will contact the Forum Administrator.


well thanks for your input about this guys .im glad we have this all hashed out now.this should be a deciding factor for a couple of guys in on the deal

this deal closes on Nov 24th and you can get out up till then.once the deal is sent in your locked in
!!!ANYONE THAT WANTS OUT GET OUT NOW!!!there is still time

and a special thanks to you 45 2.1 dont know what i would do without youhttp://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/images/icons/icon12.gifmake sure you look over the posts from all the buyers so you can weed them out as you see fit.once thats done your buisness will be done here

also make sure you read this quote till you understand it.im talking the last part

[Cayoot]

I hate to say it, but I'm seeing that even the original gb boolit of this design is requiring alot more effort on my part (to make it fit) than I want to do.

I'm afraid that I really want the original design that you posted. Are you planning to do another gb with that original design?

If not, then I guess you should probably just tear up that check I wrote....I really prefer the smaller version.

Thanks

Bary

[Boomer Mikey]

This illustration from the Mountain Molds website shows the relationship of a bore riding bullet to the chambering issue. The bore riding bullet nose for the purposes of this boolit design would be .352" diameter (.002" over bore diameter) the body of the bullet is the larger .358 - .360 diameter (.001" - .002" over groove diameter).

It's easy to see that a .360" diameter bullet nose won't go into the rifling (won't chamber) making it necessary to seat the boolit deeper into the case to chamber.

A two diameter or "bore riding" boolit design helps overcome common chamber variations in throat and rifling lead by centering and guiding the boolit into the bore during chambering.

A variation in individual chambers is why your boolits will chamber in some rifles and not in others.

Placing 3 crimp grooves on the bullet will do nothing to fix a boolit nose that can't enter the bore during chambering; however, they will provide flexibility for use in a variety of actions. On the other hand, 3 crimp grooves on a bore riding boolit design will allow 3 different oal lengths to optimize use in a variety of actions and provide a greater range of adjustment within each chambers bore.


Boomer :Fire:

[jeff223]

Boomer Mikey please correct me if im wrong but didnt i take you off the buyer list?if that is the case you have nothing more to say here.i am very impressed with your picture that you posted though.http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/images/icons/icon14.gif

now that i have that taken care of heres the deal.
the 360-360-180 is the boolit sheet im sending in.i have no use for the other one and you must ask yourselfs why would i run a group buy on a mold that makes a boolit i cant use?

this is a very simple thing to decide.IN or OUT?

we are going to have well over the 25 order mark,in fact i just got a PM from another guy that wants a mold.if i dont hear from you i will take it you are in and for those of you that want out i will have no hard feelings about this.

thanks all,
jeff

PS: i did like that picture you posted Boomer Mikeyhttp://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Cayoot]

I'm out Jeff

[jeff223]

shoot me your zip code so i can take you off the list

[Boomer Mikey]

Ok Jeff,

Your right! I am off the list, and I will continue to do what is right... in providing information based upon my experience working with cast boolits in lever guns and revolvers for over 30 years when asked.

You have every right to do whatever you want to... I sincerely hope your .360 - .360 - 180 design works wonders for you.

You decided to change the design for your own reasons; however, I believe it would have been better to start another group buy for the newer design instead of telling the original supporters to get out if they don't like it.

Maybe I’m too old fashioned in my way of thinking, I hope this never happens to you.

Boomer

[jeff223]

Boomer there is some good news for you 35cal shooters.i do plan on starting another group buy on a gas checked version of about the same design.im thinking of having it weigh in at 200gr or maybe alittle more.this one will fall out at a full .360 so the guys can size down to what ever they want.

my next group buy will have the spec sheet posted from the start so all can see and the new boolit designer around here has no problems of posting the design and spec sheet.people that are thinking of running a group buy should keep Tom Myers in mind for their design and spec.he a great guy and very easy to work with

keep your eyes open for my next buyhttp://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[porkchop bob]

Boomer there is some good news for you 35cal shooters.i do plan on starting another group buy on a gas checked version of about the same design.im thinking of having it weigh in at 200gr or maybe alittle more.this one will fall out at a full .360 so the guys can size down to what ever they want. . . .



Good afternoon, Jeff.

I am not a member of the .360-180-3 crimp grove GB. Perhaps this precludes my suggestion to slow down just a little. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. I am interested in learning how this boolit is going to shoot in the various applications. If it does well, then those who are just watching, like myself, will be interested in a gas check version. It is really is too early to be beating the drums for the next GB. I am thinking it will be hard for me to size down the nose. There has to be a trick in doing that. I will be reading the results to learn how it is done.

Best regards, Bob

[0802]

I'm out. Zip on your list is 22554, zip code on check is 73505. Thanks for the work on this, but the original design is what I really wanted.

Josh

[jeff223]

Bob have you heard anything about this boolit from the group buy last summer?i ran this one a couple of years ago and its a shooter.if i do another group buy it will be a boolit something like this one but will be a 200grainer or so.i already have the design spec sheet in my email but i may have something else done to it.if i do it the spec sheet will be posted up front right from the start
check it out and thanks for your interest ,

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1330&d=1145634936

[CSH]

Jeff, take me off the list and torch my check.

CSH 35748

[Dutch4122]

Jeff-

Please take me off the list as well. My zip is 48415. The zip on my check is 48458 from my previous address. Hope it doesn't cause any confusion. After going over all the posts here I've decided that I don't want the .360 nose version.

"Boomer Mikey" has just put up a thread offering to honcho the .352" nose version that 45 2.1 designed. I'll be placing and order with him instead.

Thanks for running this deal; but after careful consideration I'm afraid this one "morphed" into something I didn't want or need.

[jeff223]

will do guys,i will take you off the list

[Pepe Ray]

Hi Jeff,
My apologies, but I cant make the one I've got work in both of my M92's. It'll be good in my Ruger but I dont need another one. Please scratch me off your list.
Thanks for your efforts. Pepe Ray Zip 04463

[porkchop bob]

Bob have you heard anything about this boolit from the group buy last summer?i ran this one a couple of years ago and its a shooter.if i do another group buy it will be a boolit something like this one but will be a 200grainer or so. . . .

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1330&d=1145634936

Jeff, I do not think I have read any comments about the performance of the earlier mold. The one pictured is 180 grains. Should not take too much to push it to 200. Please point me to the earlier thread and I will do some reading and thinking. Returning to the current design, I do want to read about its performance before putting any funds up for a GC version. Budgeting was simpler before the Gas Check GB series started.

Thanks, Bob

[jeff223]

a bait and switch on my part!!i think not
read my past tread concerning this boolit mold group buy.maybe this will refresh some memorys
http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=7815&highlight=C358-180-RF

the only mistake i made with this buy is i didnt read every post made by everyone and someone took the group buy over.i since gained controll and ive been accused of " bait and switch"

i even had a moderator make a comment to me about switching the deal on everyone.this doesnt supprise me at all as not many people think for themselfs in todays world.this is a monkey see monkey do world that we live in.lots of guys running around with no guts or no balls,so to speak and are quick to make decisions on someones say so

i had support from the start on this deal for a boolit design that was a full .360 all the way and they then pulled out because of the switch i made???.im not asking for anyone to return to my group buy and i wouldnt let them if they wanted to.

just thought you guys should read this other tread over

[357maximum]

Jeff...I am not going into a :takinWiz: with you.. I find you decent, and I enjoyed shooting with you.....but maybe it is you...that needs to re-read the entire post....maybe a little more carefully this time....the reasons for all the confusion is quite apparent...to me any way....but then again...I may just be a herd animal.....


personally I do not know why the UNIVERSAL boolit is so disagreeable to you....It is what I thought I was paying for...many others too apparently...why....why...would you have three crimp grooves when you will NOT be able to use them,,,because the nose is too fat...to fit the intended irons in which they were put there for in the first place...with the universal nose you seat them out to the next available crimp groove...with the full bore nose you cannot do this and it all becomes mute....


Michael

[jeff223]

my last post pretty much sums up the way i feel about this whole thing.bait and switch??no not by me but the switch was made by the same guy that culled the flock for me.a big thanks to him for doing thathttp://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

this buy will be ending very soon

[waksupi]

Jeff, when I made a comment, it was from me personally, and not as a moderator. Changing horses in the middle of the stream appears to have been a poor choice, when it would have been just as easy to do two buys. As is now happening.

[jeff223]

no hard feelings on my part with the guys getting out

my only beef was over this bait and switch deal

[Wildcat]

Jeff,

I'm out too. Zip is 66865. Hoped to use this in my early Marlin .35. Don't see how it could work for that purpose.

Thanks.

Steve

[Slowpoke]

I have no interest in this buy one way or the other.

But given Lee's capabilities, or maybe I should say lack there of, if I was in the buy I would prefer the straight .360 diameter.

Custom made nose size dies that work in a lubesizer are a wonderful tool and allow one to precisely fit the bullet to the individual gun and make most moulds truly versatile in the process.

good luck

[jeff223]

I have no interest in this buy one way or the other.

But given Lee's capabilities, or maybe I should say lack there of, if I was in the buy I would prefer the straight .360 diameter.

Custom made nose size dies that work in a lubesizer are a wonderful tool and allow one to precisely fit the bullet to the individual gun and make most moulds truly versatile in the process.

good luck

good pointhttp://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/images/icons/icon14.gif

thankyou for your inputhttp://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[porkchop bob]

. . . Custom made nose size dies that work in a lubesizer are a wonderful tool and allow one to precisely fit the bullet to the individual gun and make most moulds truly versatile in the process. . . .

In a separate thread, I would appreciate having the concept of custom made nose size dies discussed. I know zip zero about this subject. It seems to be a solution to a host of problems. For now, it does sound too good to be true.

Bob

[oksmle]

Jeff .... Might as well tear my check up. 73160-2511 .... oksmle

[biggome]

Though I am not bitter, pissed or otherwise upset with the progress of this G.B. I am going to pull out. My partner in this deal wants out and since I want to make life as simple as possible for all I will bail out with him. Only time would tell if I would have had any negative issues with this boolit but I doubt I could have any.

Good luck to all and I hope this one works out for everyone in on the deal though I and my partner have decided to back out.

Thanks for all the effort none the less!

Paul, 35761-2 on the list.

[jeff223]

***HAPPY THANKSGIVING EVERYONE***

i will have a new zip code list posted soon

[LIMPINGJ]

Jeff after measureing both my Marlins I will need to go with the orginal design. Please destroy my check.
Thanks
Jim

[jeff223]

***THIS DEAL IS NOW CLOSED***
thanks everyone for your orders and i want to thank Tom Myers for the spec sheets that he posted and i also want to thank Richard for all his input and his order for 6 molds.

even with a couple of guys working against me with their PMs to the buyers tring to make this buy fail we still ended up with enough orders for a group buy and here's the list

1 mold to Tom Myers
6 to Richard
and one mold to everyone below
30114
43445
74702
48032
58533
46307
28803
17241-9430
42701
54213-9742
80228
32309
15061-2442
64062
79424
60561
84601
65502
91106-2003
95815
74403

these group buys take between 90-120days for Lee Precision to fill the order
i will keep in touchhttp://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[jeff223]

****HERE IS AN UPDATE****

i talked to the lady at LEE today and she said she sent our order in to the shop on Dec 12th.she has know idea as to how long the wait will be for them to fill our order."there are a number of special orders ahead of this one and they are short handed,it will be awhile before we get this order" those were her words


just thought i would pass this info on

i want to thank TOM MEYERS for drawing up the spec sheet for this buy.he did a great job on the design and i plan on running a buy using him again as the designerhttp://castboolits.gunloads.com/images/icons/icon14.gif

[308]

A belated but very necessary, Good Job Jeff.

[jeff223]

thanks alot Lamar

PM sent to you Lamar