Lightweight 58

[StrawHat]

I was digging through my parts bin looking for a few parts for a rifle a fellow wanted me to build and found an old piece of walnut I had set aside for some project (likely a Mauser judging from the time frame I got it). I got the parts together for the Dickert rifle but the walnut stock kept a place in my mind. Before I got going on the Dickert, the guy lost his job and backed out of the deal. And that piece of walnut kept nagging at me. Not a real glamorous piece of wood, not even a good hard shell walnu, just a plain piece of American Black Walnut. It is the correct size for a halfstock Irish Poaching rifle. Or English Stalking Rifle if you prefer.

I started looking for a 62 caliber barrel but, alas, I don't have one. I did find and old 58 caliber barrel I had left over from some musket I reworked so that became the second piece of the puzzle. A trip to the Log Cabin (Lodi, Ohio) and I was able to get a lock and breechplug. I still need to get butt plate and triggerguard but at least I have an idea what this one is going to be.

I put the lock, stock and barrel on the scale and so far the lot weighs 6 pounds 4 ounces. The rib, but and guard will add to the weight but whittling the stock will reduce it. At best guess, I will end up with a 6 1/2 pound rifle! Just right for a walk in the woods. Spring is here and my shop is warming up so I might bet out there this year and start on it. I will post updates as the project gets going.

Just need some time to remember how to use my tools!

Wish me luck.

[northmn]

Those are the most fun rifles to make, the "spare parts ones" in which you really don't have to get too concerned over "correctness" sounds great. I have a couple of old military rifle steel buttplates that I have considered turning into one someday.

Northmn

[rhbrink]

That is a lot fun stuff, use to be if I wasn't shooting a exactly correct style flinter I wasn't having fun. Lately been working on a couple underhammers mostly made with leftover parts and reclyled barrels stuff that has been laying around for 30+ years, guess I don't have anything to prove anymore just enjoy making smoke. Been eyeballing a cheap old Itialian Zouve that I had bought years ago, took the barrel off and threw away and put a Bill Large barrel on and shot a few matches, thinking about pulling the barrel off of that and adding to my underhammer group of recycled parts ought to make a real good deer and pig thumper.

[Geraldo]

Pictures. We need pictures, even if only of the pile of parts. :coffeecom

[mooman76]

I've always wanted to build one, from scratch. I built a few kits but it ain't quite the sam even though those are fun too.

[smoked turkey]

I don't want to hi-jack this thread, but I would like to ask if anyone could tell me who makes or made a 58 muzzloader. I have been looking for something like a TC Renegade/New Englander. I have been looking on e-bay/Gunbroker but haven't seen anything yet. I have 50s and 54s but would like to try out a single barrel in 58. I have a Pedersoli 58 Kodiak double but want to try a single barrel. Thanks!

[StrawHat]

I don't want to hi-jack this thread, but I would like to ask if anyone could tell me who makes or made a 58 muzzloader. I have been looking for something like a TC Renegade/New Englander. I have been looking on e-bay/Gunbroker but haven't seen anything yet. I have 50s and 54s but would like to try out a single barrel in 58. I have a Pedersoli 58 Kodiak double but want to try a single barrel. Thanks!

58s have been imported over the years by Navy Arms, Dixie Guns Works, The Log Cabin and a host of others. Most 58s will be muskets of some description. If you want a musket, you are in luck. 58 caliber "civilian" rifles are a bit harder to find and may have to be commissioned.

The Springfield, Harpers Ferry, Zouave, Enfield some Confederate copies are available and make good hunting rifles or target guns. I like the muskets for hunting because they are usually lighter than the "civilian" counterpart and come equipped with swivels to allow the use of a sling when bringing game out of the woods.

The Zouave was a mainstay of the import line in the last century even though it had only limited use during the CW. It shouldn't be too hard to find one if that is what you want.

Good Luck.

[northmn]

When CVA made real rifles they made the mountain rifle in a 58. Otherwise one would have to look for "drop ins" A drop in could be made out of parts, but the price would be exhorbitant, especially if I did it as I do not like to do custom work any more.

Northmn

[mooman76]

I have a Cabelas 58 Hawkins with an interchangable barrel in 50. I was made at the time by Lyman and I like it allot. I believe they still sell one. You also could try Basspros or or Dixiegunworks. Greenmountain makes drop in barrels.

[smoked turkey]

Thanks for those replies. I thought I was having a lot of trouble finding a 58 in the likes of TC, Knight, etc. That helps explain it. I will modify my search to include the musket as well as the Cabelas route. I am familiar with the excellent Green Mountain barrels. So I will look around based on that. I might post in the "want to buy" section. It is a sight to have a new mould and just have to have a rifle to shoot the boolit in.

[northmn]

As 54's are more common you might find that you are really nit picking to go for a 58. I have a 58 rifle barrel but it is for a build for myself and the differences did not matter as much. 58's thump what they hit but depending on what you hunt it may not make a lot of difference. Few deer are discriminating to know the difference between the two.

Northmn

[smoked turkey]

Northmn:
Thanks for the reply. I think I will try to find a CVA mountain rifle in 58 on the used market. I will also look at the web site of Green Mountain to see if anything is available for the TC Renegade. I really like my 54 Renegade. I agree with you that the 54 will do anything I need to do. In fact I have used a 50 successfully on our whitetail here without any difficulty. I do have a nice Kodiak double in 58 so I really don't exactly need anything else. I am having some difficulty regulating the double with my Lyman 57730-525 gr boolit. But to be fair I have only tried one load-75 gr. Pyro RS. I understand that with some load development the big double can be made to shoot pretty good. I aim to experiment until I get a pretty accurate load at 50 yards. Meanwhile I thought if I could locate a single barrel in 58 I might enjoy shooting it.

[mooman76]

There's a 58 cal rifle and a 58 cal barrel at auctionarms.

[dualsport]

I have a .58 Zouave replica and a .54 TC White Mountain Carbine. Both knock the snot out of anything I shoot, but there's a world of difference between the two, IMHO. That said, the .54 will do the job on anything I hunt, but the .58 is more likely to leave an exit wound, a big plus in my book. I really like shooting .69 round balls out of my 12 ga. New Englander, very gratifying if not too accurate. At close range they are unbelievable.

[StrawHat]

I just measured the twist in this barrel. 1 turn in 48". I plan to try the collar button group buy bullet in this. A bit more weight than the round ball and with the history of the H&H Paradox bullet behind it. If it works, it should hit like a freight train. If not, the patched round ball is still an excellent projectile.


Geraldo

Pictures. We need pictures, even if only of the pile of parts.

I should be able to post a photo of the parts soon. It is just a pile of parts but thanks for asking.

[Geraldo]

I know it's just parts now, but sequential photos of the project are always good to learn from.

TC also made a .58 for a while, but I don't recall ever seeing one in person.

As with everyone else, I think it's hard to quantify the difference between .54 and .58, but when you hold a .58 RB or bullet you KNOW it's going to work on the other end. The only thing that would make me give up my .58 barrel would be rifling one of my .62 smoothbore barrels.

[northmn]

The 54 is very popular ecause it is probably about the largest bore that can be loaded up to a reasonable velocity and still not kick the snot out of someone. That extra 60 grains of lead in a 58 and the extra powder some use to get it moving can get your attention. I can get about 1700 fps (chronographed) with my 54 and about 90 grains of 2f Swiss. The 58 would be slower with the same charge. Still there are those that have used 58's with modest charges and found them to be very effective. I do not think the finsih was dry on a 62 I put together from a kit for a fellow when he shot an 8 point buck with it. He used about 70 grains of 3f. kept his shots ups close.

Northmn

[StrawHat]

Pictures. We need pictures, even if only of the pile of parts. :coffeecom

Per your request.

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc194/StrawHat/Parts003.jpg

Also includes most of the tools I use to shape the wood.

[Geraldo]

Thanks, they help me see how a Mauser stock will become a .58 muzzleloader. As you say, it will be a nice rifle to carry and hunt with. Good luck on your project and keep us updated.

[StrawHat]

Geraldo,

Glad you got to see the photos and glad it helped you. The stock actually was a slab of walnut and I had planned it for a Swedish Mauser (or maybe an earlier one). I hogged it down with my drawknife was starting to inlet for the barrelled action when something else distracted me and the project was put aside and eventually forgotten. I will enlarge the barrel channel and inlet for the lock and other parts. I may be changing stuff already as I really prefer flintlocks to fumbling with caps. But if I am going to change anything, now is the time.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
My first caplock was and still is a 58 Zouave. I personally think that was the most reproduced CW musket because it has the short 32 inch barrel. Many people do not realise 42 inches was the standard infantry CW musket. This I believe was a carry over from the idea that extra length was needed to effectivly fight with a bayonet. There still were people running about the battlefield with 6 foot long pikes ... nasty pointy objects made expresly to poke big ugly drain holes in unsuspecting enemy soilders caught with a fired musket.
But the 58 is far more versitile than most can imagine. But a thick leather patch on a .50 ball and shoot a cayote a long ways off. I have not yet tried a double leather patch on smaller size RB yet but I would not dought a .45 can be done. And if you need to pop a bear or BIG hog a 58 RB will do a good job. If there were bison still in the river bottoms a 62 would really shine.... but that all went away a long time ago.