460 S&W test

[bobthenailer]

in the current issue of hand loader magazine, there is finally a real article about the 460 S&W . the test were run in 15 degree temp . while having a gun that weighs 76 ounces, burns 10 to 12 grains more of like powder to acheive like velocitys as a FA 454 casull . this was my thoughts when the 460 first came out! i have 3 FA 454 casulls a 6" a 71/2" and a 9" when performing load work and chrongraphing at the same time i have found that up to a point useing H110- 296-lil gun you gain about 50 fps per grain of powder up to a point then you can add 1 to 2 grains more powder with no velocity gain , i have run in to this in almost every case reguardless of bullet weight or pistol i used! i have gotten 1942 fps with the FA 240 jhp bullet in the 9 " a 7 1/2 with a ssk muzzel brake and 1926 fps in the 71/2 inch with 4 port magnaport with 38 gr 296 im sure you can make at least 2100 fps with a 200 gr bullet in a 454 casull which is possibly 100 fps less than the 460 S&W.

[44man]

What you say has a ring of truth but you are using light bullets that are too fragile at those velocities for hunting. To work for nothing but extreme velocity removes the caliber from it's intended purpose witch is to shoot heavy bullets.
The .460 with its larger case can allow you to reach the same velocities with those light bullets at much lower pressures. This is still not the intended purpose of the caliber which is to shoot a heavy bullet faster then the .454 to gain range and killing power while keeping pressures the same.
I could make a very light boolit for the .44 mag too and maybe reach 2000 fps, but is it practical?
Yes, you reach a limit with each case as far as powder amount but when you increase the combustion chamber the point of no return will increase and even though it takes more powder, velocity will also increase. The limiting factor is the barrel length in relation to the powder column. As you increase the case size and decrease barrel length, you go backwards. One reason I think a 2" 480 is silly unless you want to burn the game to death.
We were shooting a FA .454 just yesterday with H110 loads. The fireball from a 7-1/2" barrel was something to behold. My friend had a few factory loads and even though the velocity was a lot higher then the handloads, there was almost no fire at the muzzle. I forgot to ask him what the bullets weighed in each load but I know he loaded some pretty heavy bullets.
Does anyone know what powder is in the .454 factory fodder?

[44man]

I forgot to caution you on your choice of bullet you are driving that fast. I would call the bullet company for each choice and see if they will take the pressure and velocity. You can shoot the guts out of a bullet and leave the jacket in the bore which does not do nice things at the next shot.

[Oldfeller]

You know, I read that "shoot the guts out of a jacketed bullet" and started to take exception to it -- until I remembered actually doing it myself once with a cheap open-butted nameless brand jacketed slug on some cheap recycle ammo purchased from a local shooting range, back when I was a puppy. The copper skin was left in the last little bit of the forcing cone as I remember. It took a tight fitted (sanded down to fit) wooden dowel pounded from the muzzle to get it out as I remember. Never bought any more of that commercial recycle stuff ever again, always made my own with my own cast slugs after that. I doubt the solid copper bottom jacket style slugs would have done this as they never have to my experience anyway. Then again, I have never ever exceeded the posted max loads on any of my guns (hee hee).

Rare, but it happens .....

Oldfeller

[bobthenailer]

i am aware of the short comeings with the wrong bullet ! i used the FA 240 jhp in my test, i prefer the 260 to 300 grain bullets made for the 454 casull and almost never shoot the 240 gr bullets because ive found the 260 and 300 shoot better. the 454 and the 460 S&W have the same saam maximum average chamber pressure of 65,000 psi although factory loads are reported to run between 54 to 56 thousand psi for the 460, when he pushed it to 58 to 60 psi the gun and ammo combo were not reliable. some chrno info from article from a 8 3/8 s &w 460 with factory ammo 200 hornday / 2184 fps. 275 corbon xpb 1630 fps . 395 corbon 1526 fps. ive gotten 1574 fps with 28 gr lil gun with the 250 gr xpb barnes in my 6" 454 and its alot better packin than that 460 smith. bob

[Lloyd Smale]

I guess i could say the same thing comparing a 454 to a 5 shot .45colt. A 45 will do 95% of what a 454 will with less powder and recoil. Dont get me wrong ive got absolutely no use for the 460 smith I do have a 454 but its an alaskan for packing. I have done enough penetration testing to know that with cast bullets you reach a point at about 1300 fps where velocity causes more problems then it helps and I have about as much use for jacketed handgun bullets for hunting as i do the 460. Id take a 475 or 500 linebaugh or even a 500 smith and id even inclued the 480 pushing a 400+ grain hardcast bullet over any load in the 454 or 460. In my opinion you push any handgun bullet to 2000fps and eventually you are going to have a failure to penetrate unless all your hunting is 100 lb deer.

[44man]

I feel the same about the .454 and .460. The reason I have the .475 instead.
A friend sent me a picture of a deer killed with the .460 at 140 yd's. The whole offside of the deer was blown out. I can't imagine the damage at 30 or 40 yd's. Not my cup of tea, I like to eat my deer.
My 45-70 BFR has reached 1800 fps but my hunting load is 1535 fps with a 317 gr boolit. I shoot 320 and 330 gr boolits from the .44 at about 1300 fps and the .45 Colt with 335 gr boolits at about 1160 fps. The .475 uses a 430 gr boolit at 1340 fps. I can not tell the difference in killing power on deer between any of them and I butcher right to the hole. The .454 or .460 will do nothing better except shoot flatter at long range. How many can hit deer past 100 yd's or even 50 in most cases? Pushing the velocity envelope with light bullets is nothing more then a stunt and selling point. Put the proper heavy boolit in either and they are no better then any other caliber. UMMMM, maybe I should load 120 gr .44 boolits so I can shoot flat to 300 yd's!

[bobthenailer]

i personally use the 260 and the 300 gr nosler partition along with the speer 300 god dot. and i decieded to use the barnes 250 xpb in the 6" . for cast i have a 260 grgc lfn from mountian moulds and a lbt 300 grgc from vierl . the 300 lbt is the most accurate with several groupes at 50 yards in the 1/2 range with starline case, 28gr 296, fed srm match primer. one thing ive noticed having 3 454 is they seem to all like the same load ! bob

[44man]

Those are good bullets. It was interesting about your guns liking the same loads. I find this in the .44 and .45 also. Any heavy cast from 300 to 347 gr's shoots the best with the same charge, 21.5 gr's of 296, in both calibers and in many Rugers.
My .475 loads only vary .5 gr with a bunch of different boolits with 26 and 26.5 being magic. Any increase or decrease will slowly open groups.
Have you found this in the .454? I don't have one and only mooch shots when my friends bring theirs over. Neither of them has really worked loads for accuracy. They fill a box with different charges and just shoot them up offhand, learning nothing. Strange guys! Another friend loaded 100 or more loads and bullets for his 220 Swift, then went chuck hunting with them and complained that he could not hit anything. Another strange puppy! Another wants top accuracy from his rifle and loads all kinds of different, mixed brass. I have some weird friends!

[bobthenailer]

wen i only had 2 FA 454 , and 1 mould the lbt 300 grgc lfn i shot both pistols at 25 yards with scopes on both, with 26 through 32 grs of 296 and 25 to 30 grains of 820 in 1 gran incruments with each powder and both pistols shot all loads in 1 1/4 or better and most were better so thats 13 defferent loads out of each gun , the absulate most accurate was 28 gr 296 for 1450 fps i have shot several 1/2 inch groupes at 50 yards, one time i tried that load at 100 yards and i put 10 shots is 1 3/4 inches. but that was one time i may do better or worse if i try it again. i uasally shoot at 25 to 50 yards off hand, i only shoot from the bench when working up loads although i have done alot of 100 yard off hand shooting in the past at one club with a rpm xl in 32/20 and a 2x leupold with a 7 min dot shooting off hand with both arms extended ( not taco style) i was the first one ever to get 25 out of 25 10" x 6" steel plates at 100 yards , also we at times shot at 5" circles at 100 yards off hand and with the 32/20 i could average 50 % hits and i shot both with cast bullets