Freechex Craziness

[muskeg13]

Has anyone else been following the current e-bay auction for a .41 Freechex II?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Gas-Check-Making-Tool-FREECHEX-II-41_W0QQitemZ330417079728QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Defa ultDomain_0?hash=item4cee6485b0

It's up to $153.49 with a day and a half to go! Is someone submitting wild bids just to drive up the price?

I have 4 Freechex, and was interested in a few more, including a .41, but this is outrageous! They are a fair deal at $50 or less, but, Come On? Like others in here, at these extravagant prices, I'll continue to buy expensive factory checks or I'll figure out how to make my own checkmaking dies.

[Lead Fred]

Im glad I have one of Pat's check makers, for a lot less

[Gee_Wizz01]

I saw another Freechex a few weeks back, I believe it was in .313, that was up to $119. I never went back and looked at the final price. People seem to get crazy when they start bidding on e-bay. Look at the bullet molds; at times Lee molds go for 50% higher than new.

G

[Fat-beeman]

your right someone was driving up the prices on e-bay I tried several times to bid but at that rate he can keep his stuff. after the market get flooded he will rethink the price.
Don:lovebooli

[edsmith]

if one has a small lathe,they are easy to make. if some one needed several cals. it would pay to get a small lathe. can't blame a guy for trying to make money. :)

[WILCO]

if one has a small lathe,they are easy to make. if some one needed several cals. it would pay to get a small lathe. can't blame a guy for trying to make money. :)

Thanks to Edsmith and other folks, I've been able to make mine in .30 out of .016 aluminum sheets. I've got pics, just have to post em. Am working on a 8mm check maker soon.

[edsmith]

please post photos as soon as possible,I am always looking for ideas to steal. :)

[maddog2020]

The 41's can be checked with 44 aluminum checks.
just send the bullet through the lee sizer in reverse
takes the 44 check and sizes it down to the base.
Makes a little longer then normal gas check but they work great
after seeing Ed's idea. Heck its a darn good one. to bad I am tool
handicapped

[JeffinNZ]

after the market get flooded he will rethink the price.
Don:lovebooli

It's an auction. The vendor is not generating the sell price. The bidders are. Obivously someone REALLY wants one.

[Jim Sheldon]

It's an auction. The vendor is not generating the sell price. The bidders are. Obivously someone REALLY wants one.

Actually, it's probably a "shill" bidder in league with the vendor. That happens quite often on fleaBay until they get caught.

[wistlepig1]

please post photos as soon as possible,I am always looking for ideas to steal. :)

Ditto, on the pictures. another Idea Stealer here! Thanks

[WILCO]

please post photos as soon as possible,I am always looking for ideas to steal. :)

One idea you might like is for a gas check trimmer I designed after I discovered a need for it. Creates uniformed wall lengths, prevents hitting of driving bands whilst providing a surface edge to grip the O.D. of various .30 cal. boolits I'm working with. Once these GC's are "pushed" on by hand, you can't peel them off with your finger nail. It adds one extra step to the process, but what the heck.

[badgeredd]

In Charlie Darnell's defense...I contacted him and asked for a special diameter FreeCheks maker and he made it to order and charged a fair price. He has been on ebay a good while so I seriously doubt he is in league with a shill bidder. Bidding on ebay can be crazy both ways. Not long ago I got a Mountain mold that was like new for $50 and then I've seen some molds of current production go for double the new price including Lyman and RCBS molds.

Edd

[oldhickory]

I'm just glad I got mine at the "Buy it Now" price when they were around $35-$39.

[DukeInFlorida]

My previous email dialog with him indicates that MOST of his check makers are going off to EUROPE.

Supposedly, they either make their own bullets, or they don't get any at all.

I don't know if it's that tough to get bullets in Europe, but I believe him when he says that most of the check makers are going to Europe.

Maybe we can get one of the other machinists here to come up with a similar product, and supply us directly!

[edsmith]

if someone had a small cnc machine,it should be pretty easy to make them. they are easy to make on a 7x12 lathe.

[maddog2020]

I've been looking at a cpl small lathes and mill's that harbor freight carries

[JKH]

yes indeed, foreign purchasers are driving the prices way high, just look what used LEE molds sell for on e-Bay!

Charlie is completely honest and makes a good tool, not everyone has the skill, tools or access to someone who does to make their own.

Charlie now has many buy it now auctions since finiding shop to contract with and settle on a per unit price, so if you want one now is the time to buy.

Be happy gentleman, we are truly blessed here in the US, our poor brethren in most other countries do not have the freedom of choice that we do, most of them are lucky to find primers now and then and more than 1 choice of powder, thats granting that they even have the RIGHT to own a firearm to begin with!

So, I say enough knocking Charlie, he is providing a good tool at fair prices for those of us that dont have another option, works for me!

Jeff

[maddog2020]

I look at it like this, if you don't like the price......don't buy it, plan and simple

[WILCO]

I look at it like this, if you don't like the price......don't buy it, plan and simple

Works for me.

[DukeInFlorida]

As posted in my other thread, Charlie has started to sell the FreeChex II and III check makers as a BUY IT NOW sale, at a fixed price. If you want to try getting a lower price by entering an auction, go right ahead. I found that the better way was to just "BUY IT NOW" and be done with it. No waiting for the auction to finish. No stress about how high the price might go.

Charlie has caught up on being able to make these fast enough, and my BUY IT NOW purchase was at my door a few days later! Fast shipping!!!

Thanks, Charlie!

[edsmith]

if I read his ad right,he now has them made by a outfit in N.C I think that is the only way he can keep up with demand,they are a simple device,but they do take time to make.I am sure the reason the price has gone up,is because his cost has gone up.if you don't want to pay the price,make your own,if you don't have the tools,buy them,small lathe $450,good set of american drill bits,$60,metal stock,depends on how mant you want,total cost should run about $600 :)

[pistolman44]

Wait till this high bidder gets his Freechex and find out what a pain it is to make gas checks. I had a Freechex II and after making about 200 gas checks decided this wasn't worth the time. Gator checks off of Blammer is the way for me, price is good. Casting takes up enough of my time and need more for shooting.

[a.squibload]

Can't decide, gas check maker for the one GC mould I have (225gn 44), or have the GC step removed from said mould.
Other threads suggesting GC not necessary, at least one thread I saw suggesting shooting GC boolits nekkid, no big deal.
I hardly use that mould anyway, seems light, but I got Jim's HP drill jig so it could become useful, fast light HP.
Can't decide...

[pistolman44]

See if you can get a couple plain based from someone on here to try to see if you get leading.

[JKH]

squibload,

What are you shooting? .44 mag, .44 specal, .44 Russian?
I would think that a gas checked boolit would be unnecessary for all but the Mag, but even with that a plain based boolit will do well if velocity is kept low (like around .44 special speeds).

pistolman has the right idea, put up a post on the boolit exchange, there has to be a ton of guys casting .44's that could hook you up with some PB boolits, I had a mold and would have happily obliged, but I got rid of it a while ago (no pistol to go with it).

I have no problem cranking out 100 checks on my tools in roughly 20 minutes (unless I'm being lazy and slow), the only exception is my .22 Freechex II tool, big hands/fingers, coupled with a small tool equates into more time/frustation! However, the more I use it the better my work flow progresses.

My three tools have easily paid for themselves at least once over, my .30 cal tool at least three times over, they wont go bad and I'll have them the rest of my life, insuring that I NEVER have a shortage of gas checks, cant say that for commercially availabe checks ;^ )

Jeff

[maddog2020]

got thr one ed smith makes

[Wally]

squibload,

What are you shooting? .44 mag, .44 specal, .44 Russian?
I would think that a gas checked boolit would be unnecessary for all but the Mag, but even with that a plain based boolit will do well if velocity is kept low (like around .44 special speeds).

pistolman has the right idea, put up a post on the boolit exchange, there has to be a ton of guys casting .44's that could hook you up with some PB boolits, I had a mold and would have happily obliged, but I got rid of it a while ago (no pistol to go with it).

I have no problem cranking out 100 checks on my tools in roughly 20 minutes (unless I'm being lazy and slow), the only exception is my .22 Freechex II tool, big hands/fingers, coupled with a small tool equates into more time/frustation! However, the more I use it the better my work flow progresses.

My three tools have easily paid for themselves at least once over, my .30 cal tool at least three times over, they wont go bad and I'll have them the rest of my life, insuring that I NEVER have a shortage of gas checks, cant say that for commercially availabe checks ;^ )

Jeff

I have these in 5 calibers...the .22 is the only one that make s GC "cup" whose edges are not the same length. I have tried numerous thicknesses of aluminum and this is always the case--is this true with your?

[JKH]

Hey Wally,

My first .30 cal aued "shoeing", I talked wth Charlie at lentgh and came up with a few changes, he exchanged mine for a new tool and problem disapeared.

What material are you using and how thick? Is it hard or anealled?

Jeff

[JKH]

I'm about to pull the trigger on a .30 caliber Freechex III, crazy? I think not! ;^ )

I have to make nearly 1k checks in the next week or so and I'll likely get about 3 hours to do it, not enough time to mod my Freechex II to work on my loading press, of course I really dont NEED the Freechex III but what the heck :^ )

Jeff

[JKH]

Charlie has both buy it now and standard auctions running right now, I bought the Freechex III .30 cal BIN for $94 with shipping, he had 5 more of those in stock and others for auction.

I am thoroughly pleased with theses tools and am very anxious for this new one to arrive, Charlie e-mailed me within minutes of my purchase and put it in this afternoons mail, cant get much better service than that!

[a.squibload]

squibload,

What are you shooting? .44 mag, .44 specal, .44 Russian?...
Jeff

Mag & spl. Thanks, I have other moulds that are PB, the 225 is the lightest mould I have for 44 and is my only GC.
Had some leading problems in the past with the Redhawk, don't remember the load.
Need to slug all revolvers, never did that before so I have only been guessing! SBH has always shot well,
also Contender 10" and surprisingly to me the S&W 2", these with any loads I've tried in 'em.

Only considered a GC die set for that mould, but I do have an Enfield "Smelly", and noticed some CB addicts here have had success
with them. Which of course adds more decisions: GC or paper patch?
Life was simpler before I started reading this site...:veryconfu

[vonnieglen]

Charlie has both buy it now and standard auctions running right now, I bought the Freechex III .30 cal BIN for $94 with shipping, he had 5 more of those in stock and others for auction.

I am thoroughly pleased with theses tools and am very anxious for this new one to arrive, Charlie e-mailed me within minutes of my purchase and put it in this afternoons mail, cant get much better service than that!

You won't be dissapointed! Charlie sent me a prototype of the Freechex III a few months ago. It has slightly different dimensions than the finished design, but it is just plain amazing. I can churn out well over a thousand gas checks in an hour. I posted a video at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YJKOUe1FRc

As for this talk of shills and such... I find this highly offensive. I have never talked with him, but I have emailed him numerous times. Charlie is a veteran and an honorable man. I have no association with him other than I bought a FreeChex II from him previously and posted a video on YouTube that has been viewed over 9000 times. There are a number of other videos of people making gas checks with FreeChex IIs on YouTube that have gotten further thousands of views. YouTube is being used as a resource by many persons interested in reloading and casting.

Demand has become so great for FreeChex dies that Charlie has had to contract out the machine work. This increased his costs per unit a great deal, but what has driven up the price has been demand. He has good products with a bunch of people now using them and enthusiastically endorsing them on forums such as this and sharing instructional videos on sites such as YouTube. I can't think of a finer example of American ingenuity and enterprise. I am ashamed of the people here who have attacked him and encouraged others to copy his products. Charlie is a very hard working, honest man who is a sincere booster of bullet casting. He deserves a lot better than the shabby treatment that he has received from some in this thread. It is a very poor reflection on some of those posting here.

[WILCO]

I am ashamed of the people here who have attacked him and encouraged others to copy his products. Charlie is a very hard working, honest man who is a sincere booster of bullet casting. He deserves a lot better than the shabby treatment that he has received from some in this thread. It is a very poor reflection on some of those posting here.

Everybody has critics and one who conducts any type of business will get complaints. Nobody has treated Charlie shabby here as it's just one's opinion of the market price and demand of a product.
Regarding his product being copied, this site is full of independent tinkerers with the ability to make their own tools and equipment for the many facets of our great hobby. Why should they be beholden to one man and his product at a premium price when it can be self made at a fraction of the cost? I don't see Charlie's product being produced and sold in direct competition against him, although I do recall seeing Charlie in a video showing a prototype and asking "viewers" for ideas to improve it without adding to it's cost. Did the submitters get compensated for their ideas? Is Charlie not reaping the benefit of those ideas through continued sales of his "improved" product? I bet "Big Copper" is pretty pissed off about Charlie making a tool which will copy their product. It's a free market with supply and demand dictating the results. It's also known as "Basic Economics".

[JKH]

Not to start a peeing match here, but if you do some searching you will find that Charlie has been vilified for several years on this board, especially because of his marketing on e-Bay and the fact that some members took umbrage as they though he should market his tools exclusively to this group.
There are others that have placed tool's out on this forum for sale AS competition to Charlie besides the desire to make some money, which is fine, but rather than just say "hey, I have a new tool for sale built like this, you guys interested?", it turned into a melee of Charlie bashing and was absolutely rediculous. I'm sure this last statement of mine will draw some ire, so be it, it is the truth none the less.

Having said that, yes, free market economy, etc., etc. Charlie has solicited ideas and I was more than happy to have contributed myself, no, Charlie didnt compensate me and that's fine because I OFFERED my help (small as it were) without the expectation of pay. In the end I obtained an improved tool that performed much better and has saved me a good deal of time an money, so you see, I was compensated in the end :^ )

As VG has pointed out, these tools are now farmed out to a shop and machinists dont work for free, cost of material is sky high and these are precision tools (for what they are deisgned to do), it all adds up. I can tell you that there is not a huge progfit margin on these except for the few odd tools that were purchased by overseas buyers, who have th unfortunate position of having almost no choice. They obviously see the merit of the tools and the price they pay, considering that they pay 10 times what we do on average for comonents, if and when they might be available, we are blessed in the US.

So, no madness here, good tools at decent prices, a reasonable & FAIR way to market them (who DOESNT know about e-Bay?), what more could be asked for other than to spit out the sour grapes?

I personally wish the other indiiduals making & selling tools, the best of luck. Their tools look great and appear to work well indeed, just not what I personally care for but certainly right for many others. Healthy competition is the American way, right & good, but not when it descends into character assasination to promote self, or others, for any reason.

Jeff

[vonnieglen]

Everybody has critics and one who conducts any type of business will get complaints. Nobody has treated Charlie shabby here as it's just one's opinion of the market price and demand of a product.

So you don't think that Accusing someone of engaging in fraudulant activity such as driving up the price of an auction with shills, or co-conspiraters is shabby treatment? If you read through some other threads here there have been equally outrageous suggestions and accusations made, all without a a grain of evidence or truth. You must be reading some of these posts while looking through rose colored glasses.

There is a very large amount of good information here. Charlie is extremely knowledgable and has been very helpful to me with suggestions on how to best use his products. I suggested that he share some of what he knows here, but he was reluctant because some of his previous experiences here were negative. I went back through and read some of the previous threads and try to put yourself in his shoes... it is pretty easy to see why he doesn't participate in this forum very often.

[JKH]

precisely VG!

VG, nice video by the way, Charlie sent me a link yesterday and it made me even MORE anxious to receive my new tool :^ )
For now I plan on using mine in my drill press (I ordered it with the stud), I will use it upside down with the stud in the chuck and use a machinist vice to hold the forming/cutting rod, and then place an aluminum tray underneath that is made to fit between the vice jaws for collecting finished checks. This way I wont have any issues with the tool sticking and wont have to remove it periodically to empty the formed checks, I hope ;^ )

Now THIS is craziness! Crazy like a kid waiting on Christmas, this tool is so inovative its scary. My Grandfather would have been amazed with this design, he was a master tool and die maker with many patents under his belt (including automatic cutting/cooling fluid feed on machining tools) and could have thought of little to change, yes, crazy!

Unfortunately this thread may be headed south towards contentiousness, lets take the high road and leave it at this; if you like the tool and dont mind the price, buy it, otherwise dont. BUT, leave peacefully and dont deride the maker or the tool simply because the price may not be palatable. I know disapointment all too well, but being a mature adult dictates behaviour befitting the situation; oh well, life goes on and it is JUST an object.

Jeff

[DukeInFlorida]

FreeChex III is the only way to go, in my humble pinion.

One stroke of the press, and a gas check falls into the tray.


Wait till this high bidder gets his Freechex and find out what a pain it is to make gas checks. I had a Freechex II and after making about 200 gas checks decided this wasn't worth the time. Gator checks off of Blammer is the way for me, price is good. Casting takes up enough of my time and need more for shooting.

[HamGunner]

I agree with those that are defending Charlie. He has been very straight up with me every time that I have dealt with him. Once, he even sent me a replacement mandrel for one of my Freechex makers even though I did not know that mine was the wrong size. It was working okay, but he e-mailed me and informed me that it was just a slight bit oversized. I told him that I could just turn it down a bit in size if needed, but he insisted on sending me the correct one anyway and I could take my pick of the two. And for free.

E-bay is E-bay. If you don't like dealing with E-bay, then buy elsewhere, but that is not a reason to bash a decent guy like Charlie. I won't mention the names of those that really got my goat by accusing him of shill bidding; they know who they are. They are just showing their ignorance and should be ashamed of themselves, but whether they can live with it or not is on them.

Like Vonnieglen, I have followed all the Charlie-bashing for years with displeasure and it has been uncalled for. If a product does not turn you on, you don't have to buy it, unless it is Health Care. Buy elsewhere or make it yourself.

[WILCO]

So you don't think that Accusing someone of engaging in fraudulant activity such as driving up the price of an auction with shills, or co-conspiraters is shabby treatment? If you read through some other threads here there have been equally outrageous suggestions and accusations made, all without a a grain of evidence or truth. You must be reading some of these posts while looking through rose colored glasses.


Who fricking cares!!

It's called free capitalism and basic economics. If you don't like what is said about an entrepreneur or his products, don't come here and read it. The only colored glasses I wear are focused on reality. One could say your biased in Charlie’s favor as you get your products from him for free. :shock: [smilie=s: But I digress, who cares?

[vonnieglen]

Who fricking cares!!

It's called free capitalism and basic economics. If you don't like what is said about an entrepreneur or his products, don't come here and read it. The only colored glasses I wear are focused on reality. One could say your biased in Charlie’s favor as you get your products from him for free. :shock: [smilie=s: But I digress, who cares?

So now I am being sarcastically accused of some sort of bias? Interesting. It is very difficult for me not to be highly enthusiastic over Charlie's most recent innovation. Using it I can make a couple thousand gas checks in an hour. Which I think is nothing short of a miracle! I will post another video of myself making two hundred gas checks in under five minutes if you don't believe this.

Charlie asked me to give him feedback on the FreeChex III to help him work the bugs out before he started selling them. I have never assumed that I would be keeping something that I have not paid for. I assume that he will want it back to see how it has held up with some fairly heavy use. There have been a few improvements made based on my useage and others. I do get to keep the thousands of gas checks that I have made however.

Sorry that you would like for me to not to speak my mind here. Most of the time I do just lurk unless I feel that I have something to share.

[Maven]

VG, Watched your video last night and was impressed with how well , and quickly, the device worked. I think I'd be motivated to purchase one or two if I already owned a paper cutter and arbor press. Nice job!

[JKH]

Maven,

Do you own a drill press? These will work equally as well, a loading press can be used but leverage is not quite right (Charlie explained this in an e-mail, I dont know if he is a physicist but if not he certainly should be a math professor!).

Sheet aluminum can be cut easily with good scissors, a utility knife, or in my case I use rechargeal electric shears (unless I remember to grab the paper cutter from the office, it works best).

I'm probably preachig to the choir with the above advice, I know you have a deep knowledge of the cast boolit game and must certainly know all this, it will however serve for those who dont.

I am hoping my tool is in the mail today, the FC II is a slick little tool but this new one is so far advanced, there really is no other tool for sale that comes close, it is a design with a great deal of class.

As far as price, Charlie is running these as both buy it now AND auction, fixed price for those who jump at the chance and if you miss out you still have a chance to bid and win, what in the world is wrong with that?

[Maven]

JKH, No to the drill press (wish I did) , but yes to tin snips.

[JKH]

Maven,

Snips will do but a pain to use, material makes a huge difference. Aluminum flashing is fairly hard and cutting with scissors/snips/etc. can be rather hard on you're hands, newspaper lith plate cuts like butter because it is anealled (this is all that I use now), you can aneall flashing though with relative ease which will make t much easier to work with albiet not totally necessary.

At any rate, you can use you're loading press and cut the material by hand, so there is no real impediment if you want to use one of these, they are a little pricey but as you saw in the video, WOW! I would like to see any other check makers being marketed (not one off home made units) that can even come close to the speed an ease of the FC III.

Jeff

[vonnieglen]

VG, Watched your video last night and was impressed with how well , and quickly, the device worked. I think I'd be motivated to purchase one or two if I already owned a paper cutter and arbor press. Nice job!

I am glad you enjoyed the video Maven.

I paid only $49 for my arbor press at Harbor Freight and about $20 for the paper cutter. If you cut the material using something other than a paper cutter, you had better use gloves when you are pushing the metal through the die. The paper cutter leaves a lot less in the way of sharp little edges.

As JKH said there are other solutions for both cutting the material into strips and for using the actual FreeChex III. Charlie posted a video using one with a mallet.

[mrbill2]

"WOW! I would like to see any other check makers being marketed (not one off home made units) that can even come close to the speed an ease of the FC III."

And just what is wrong with (one off home made units). If you think about it Charlies FreeCheck tools must have started out just like that, home made!
Here's one of those home made units that work in a reloading press and make checks just as fast and you don't have to buy a drill or arbor press to use the damn thing. And mine was making checks while Charlie was still thinking about his.

[JKH]

very nice tool Mr. Bill, but I think you are missing the point, the FC III is not limited to any one method of application, it has versatility that a press specific unit cannot attain.

This thread is speaking in terms of a marketed unit, not individual pieces made for personal consumption, no ill will towards you or other skilled individuals that have made their own, but it is a different realm. Now if you were to mass produce and market you're tool then a different discusson could ensue, however, such is not the case so the thread remains pertinent to Charlies commercial tools, his method of marketing and the merits of both, hence the name of the thread being "Feechex crazyness", not "homemade check tool crazyness".

That being said, if we had a different thread comparing the attributes of ALL check making tools that have been showcased on this board, I would still be of the same opinion concerning the FC III system. Does that mean I think youre's is no good? not in the least, I think it is an excellant tool and read about it with great interest long ago, you have to admit that a press only unit is limited as to scope of use, which means something to some people but I'll readily admit maybe not to others.

One last thing, of all the press mounted tools I have seen, youre's is much better than most, why dont you mass produce and market it? It certainly beats other's available that require the checks to be made in two steps with attending swapping of parts, I think thosse deisgns are clumsey and raher backwards when a single stroke toool is obviously easy to design and much more efficient.

Jeff