Copper Solids

[Sarg]

Ok .... so this whole jacket issue sucks for .308" shooters. At $17/100 jackets are a killer on the price end. It would be nice to find something that wasn't too cost prohibitive. I did swage the rims off some 32 S&W and bring them down to .306" to try them out ... but that is another story.

So I had a rod of .300" solid copper setting on my work bench. I got this wild hair up my **** and decided to take the torch to it to anneal it. I annealed down about 6" just so that it wouldn't all be too soft and cut off a .95" section with my tube cutter.

Needing a relief area I chucked up a 1/8" drill bit and run it through 3/4 of the way dead center. I then put the slug into the ram and ran it through my Lee .307" die to make sure that it was all at a good start point.

Moved over to the Walnut Hammer and adjusted everything to point. Then lanolined it up really good and press like hell. Then OUT POPPED a nice little 120g .308" bullet with a flat base out of a solid copper piece.

I need to do the math and see if this is cost effective vs paying a small fortune for the jackets. I guess I have to shoot them too ... lol. I really need to get the Walnut Hammer mounted on a steel stand bolted to the floor so I can stand on the handle without fear of the benchtop collapsing. I know ppl have worried in the past about solids producing a lot of copper fouling but wouldn't this be remedied by just moly plating them???

I know ... didn't happen without pictures but I got it rolling in the polisher with 1,000 .223 brass that needed cleaning.

Sarg

[sagacious]

Sounds like a fun project!

I cannot see it being any less expensive that the price you're paying for jackets, as you'll only get 58 of those bullets from a pound of copper rod. Add in some scrap/waste, and the realistic number per pound would be still fewer.

Copper pipe would be the way to go if you can get the right stuff, and you're set-up to make use of it. Not sure that would be cost effective for paper shooting either, but it would be less expensive than solid copper.

Keep on keepin on. :drinks:

[BT Sniper]

Cool! Defenatly awating the pics! I have found FN 5.7x28 brass for under 5 cents a piece. Out of my 300WM I can get under an 1" @ 100 and actually shot a small mule deer with it last year. Somthing to consider I guess.

Nice work Can't wait to hear more.

BT

[Southern Son]

+1 on the pics. Sounds very interesting, please keep us posted when you shoot them.

[hcpookie]

Where do you get the solid copper rod? I've been wondering about solids for some time now.

[buck1]

""At $17/100 jackets are a killer on the price end""
I have noticed the crazy high prices on jackets too. I can buy .44 cal jhp bullets from midsouth (nosler) for about the same price as jackets only from corbon.
In fact if it were not for BTSs cases to jackets rig, I wouldnt even bother. I love to reload and do all the things that go with it. But to justify the cost of the equipment, I need to have some $$$savings in the long run.
I can live with the higher prices of equipment as it will last, BUT HiGH priced components leave me cold. I am in the process of phasing out gas checks from my loads! If they want to over charge that much for them , they can keep them and make not anything from me.
Sorry to stray from main topic, but its been getting to me lately...Buck

[ANeat]

A jacket making set of dies is on my list of things I want to build. Meaning a disc cutter, cupping die, draw dies etc. That or something to use tubing as a source.

Soilds sounds cool also, I think the key on something like that is a good source of the material

[JohnM]

You wouldn't mind buiding 2 sets ANEAT? :-D

I pay about 30 us cents for 308 jackets when I can get hold of them. The problem is making the jackets as uniformed as J4's....


John

[Hardcast416taylor]

As it is a known fact that my bright ideas border on the dangerous side I tried the following for making my own copper "312 dia. bullets. I had access to a large number of copper mig welder tips, the type that screw onto the robot and the wire runs thru it, that measured .312". I would chuck the copper tips in a drill and slowly spin it and using a mill file grind off the threads used for screwing it onto the weld gun creating a sort of flat point semi spitzer bullet. I then would glue a common straight pin, used for the frau`s sewing, into the opposite end using 2 ton epoxy. After curing for 24 hrs. I loaded a half dozen in 303 cases with minimum loads for 215 gr. bullets using IMR-4895 powder. My first effort of a 5 shot group at 75 yds. gave me a 3 1/2" group low and left, not to terrible for a first try. I still have about 400 left of these homemade bullets to experiment with so I might get a decent load yet. Robert

[martin]

ANeat and John M,

Lets just say that I am also very interested in making my own jackets like you guys. What source of copper sheet is out there? How much does it cost? What is the scrap rate? Is it worthwhile cost wise vs. say a J4?

I have not done much resarch on jacket forming dies but it would seem to me that there would have to be a number of incremental dies for cup forming and then incremental draw dies with the last step being a trim die. I also see the point that uniformity may be difficult to obtain with all these steps. But hay, that the fun of working these things out.

John, I just orders some J4's this morning from Berger in 30 cal (1.2 and 1.3 length) and if I am not mistaken they were around 17 cents each. They indicated that delivery was 4 to 6 weeks. Sierra also has some listed on their site for 15.5 cents each.

Martin

[KTN]

Aneat and Martin,

jacket drawing dies are on my future project list also. I happen to have lots of 0.031" copper scrap pieces at my work that I have been collecting for this project.


Kaj

[bohica2xo]

Sarg:

Swaging solids can be hard on tooling. They are not as forgiving as lead cores, and take more force.

Since you already have a Walnut Hill, you should consider reducing 9mm brass for jackets - or using FN5.7 cases if you have a good supply. 9mm cases reduce easily, and in two steps you can be @ .305 diameter.

For the folks asking about solid copper for swaging, 1 gauge copper wire is .289 or so. It can be cut to length & annealed, then bumped into cylinders with simple dies.

You will still need a lathe or fixture to drill a hole in them before swaging. It is possible to swage the hole first, but this takes a LOT of force. Makers like Barnes swage the cavity, then close the point. Not something to do on a loading press...

B.

[Sarg]

B.

What's the best way of reducing a 9mm jacket down so much? I have just straight sizing dies but I think I would need to make a better way of going about it. Even drawing a bullet down a couple of thousandths really pushes what the Lee sizers I have can accept. The opening isn't wide enough to get the larger things in.

[bohica2xo]

Sarg:

A fully annealed 9mm case knocks down to .345 in one pass. A second die will take it the rest of the way. If you want to remove the extractor groove, a step between draws will do that in one press stroke.

Annealing between steps helps when using a loading press, but should not be necessary with the WH's power.

Simple dies to make if you have a lathe.

If you can stand 3 steps, I have knocked 40S&W brass down to .345 in two steps, so 30 cal is just one more.

B.