Gew 88 and Lyman #323481

[Tedly]

First cast and loading in 30 yrs. Been lurking and finally went to uncles shop and cast Lyman #323481 from No. 2 alloy and GC.and lubed. Weigh very consistant at 200 gr. Problem is I've got no real powder selection right now, except IMR 4831 and H4350.Since I plan to put 'em out of a Gew 88 that I've been shooting 170gr. jacketed out of I was thinking that around 35 to 40 grs. of either would be OK for #323481 boolits and @ about 1500fps? Please advise as I would like to start here and think this should be OK... Thanks ...Tedly

[fourarmed]

I think this is a gray area. The powders you mention are slow-burners that reportedly have blown up guns with reduced loads and jacketed bullets. They have been used with cast, and may be perfectly OK, but I would not risk it. Unless you live in an incredibly remote area, it is not that difficult to obtain a more suitable powder. Something like 4198 or 4895 would be much more likely to be satisfactory.

Edited to add: Have you slugged your bore? I believe most original '88 rifles have the .318 bore, which might affect your choice of sizing die.

[bruce drake]

If Tedly's Commission 88 has been modified to shoot without the use of an enbloc clip it would be rightly called an 88/05 or an 88/14.

Both of the modified models models have lips where stripper clips can be pushed down to load the rifle. The modified 88s also received cuts in the front reciever ring to allow the longer m98 spitzer bullets to be used. The throats of the barrels were also recut and lengthened to allow the newer .323 bullets to be fired in the .318 bore by swaging the bullets down to fit.

One of my most accurate cast boolit shooters ever was a 88/05 model that was modified as such. It would take a LEE .323 175gr GC over 30gr of IMR4895 and give me a 5 shot cloverleaf at 50 yards.

Bruce

[HORNET]

Dacron filler is your friend in cases like this.

[jonk]

Any tendency of light charges of slow powders to detonate was the result of the primer flashing over the top of the powder and igniting the front and back of it at the same time, resulting in a colliding pressure wave within the case.

Two thoughts here.

First, 35 grains of either should be enough that the flash hole is covered well enough that this wouldn't be an issue, but it is a gray area. Use of a dacron wad or similar will eliminate any danger and you could proceed.

However, you may not have enough powder to get sufficient pressure for a reliable burn.

I'd try 40 grains. It should eliminate all problems with one fell swoop and while it should be moving around 2000 fps it isn't so fast as to cause leading if using a gas check and good lube on a properly fit bullet.

The 88 can handle that charge just fine. I use 40 gr of 4064 under a remington 185 core lock and that in and of itself is still fairly mild at about 2150 fps. I wouldn't go with a full tilt 8mm mauser load out of it but you should be ok with 40 gr no problem.

[Tedly]

Thanks for the comeback. I'm not in a remote place, just out of work and the only powders I've got now are H4350 and IMR 4831. I did shoot some 170gr. Hornady #3210 .321 dia. bullets out of this Gew 88 using 40.0 gr. H4350. This was before I checked bore size and was scared from reading an old DuPont powder data flyier.This chronyed @ 1695 fps ... pretty squib for a jacketed bullet. This of course was very mild and I've since have gone up to 50.0 gr. H4350 @ 2400 fps. No pressure sign at the case or in the bolt lift/recocking motion. I can tell the case is expanding to fill the chamber and the necks are sealing. I guess if I shot 40.0gr. H4350 w/170 gr. jacketed, I should be able to do cast boolit at 200gr. GC withsame 40.0 gr charge and lose speed, but pressure should be no issue? The No. 2 alloy is way softer than copper jackets, the jacketed load was going at cast boolit speeds and the original sub charge of 40.0grs. was not an issue with the lighter yet harder bullets...Am I reasonably correct here ?

[Beekeeper]

Bruce Drake,
How many of the 88's do you have?
I have a couple of the original ones that used the enbloc clip.
.318 barrels.
Were junkers out of South America that I resurected.
Have wanted to find out as much as possible about them but it seems everyone thinks I am reading the mike wrong on the lands and grooves.

Is there an exact way to tell which model you have. Other then bore size that is.

Only info I have ever been able to garner is .309 land
.318 groove
enbloc clip and that had to have the forward edge flattened a little to get it to work. No.1 shot great last week and next monday No.2 will boom once more .

Jim

[Tedly]

Beekeeper,
Go to www.Gew88.com. This is probably the best place to get info.
Tedly

[Tedly]

Shot both 40.0gr. of 4831 and 4350 today with Lyman #323481 boolit cast from No.2 out of both Gew88 and Brno 98/22 at both 50 and 100 yds. Very disappointing. Best group with cast was about 8" at 100yds out of the Brno. The 4831 load was going 1695fps... Hard to understand because the Brno will routinely shoot 2" or better at 100yds, with any jacketed loads , with in 1" with a handload...so dose the Gew 88...they shoot so well with jacketed ammo its almost boring. Also learned that cast boolits shoot way low to the sights...Probably going to pick the Brno and work from there. Got to be a way to get these Lyman #323481 to shoot, what powder should I be using for this and possibly other milsurp cast loadings...Thanks, Tedly

[bruce drake]

Beekeeper,

At one time I had 3 88s (1 88/05 and two straight 88s)

The Ecuadorian (South American) 88s weren't modified to use stripper clips like the German and Turkish 88s.

They were refurbished by the Czechs in the 30's with brand new barrels but they kept the original specifications so that the large stockpiles of 88 ammo could be continued to be used (.318" dia 220gr RN) (check the barrel itself and see if you see a CZ stamped on it and you'll have a replacement barrel.)

Easy way to tell between the 88/05 and the 88/14s was that the 05 mods had the stripper clip guides drilled and tapped onto the rear receiver split bridges. The 14 mod had the stripper clip guides roughly welded onto the receiver. Both Mods also had a cartridge stop installed in the lower triggerguard that eliminated the requirement for the en-bloc clip.

Most cast loads at 1600fps will require you to use the 600yard sight settings for 100 yards. A Starting group of 8 inches isn't bad. Tweak the loads and you'll see an improvement.

Bruce

[damron g]

With my 8mm's i find 16.0 of 2400 a pretty good "standard" load used with pistol primers. With the 245g lyman 323378 i get 1450 fps and a few 1-1/2" groups at 100 yards.I cant seem to get 10 shot groups as good,but all of them will fall in a 3" circle with 80% into 2"or so.God enough for a $75 Turk anyhow.

I am envious of your 323481 mold,it looks like a dandy!!

George

[bruce drake]

damron g,

Nice to see you on Cast Boolits. I follow your posts on CBA where I normally read but don't post much.

Bruce

[jonk]

I didn't say either of those would be idea, just that they would work.

My favorite is 18 gr of SR 4759.

[Hank10]

I have an 88 sporter by Shilling that shoots great with 24 grs. 2400 and a
321297 fpgc, for a real light load I use a .330 round ball and 7 grs. Unique that shoots into an inch at 50 yds. Also use these loads in a 8/57R/16 ga combo gun.
H10

[excess650]

I was lookin' through the 8mm threads for other loads to consider. I'm shooting a ratty Turk that has been shortened, barrel and sock, and fitted with a ramp front and receiver sight. My best load so far is a custom 225gr over 18gr AA5744 in RP cases and F210 primers. (4) groups at 50 yards have averaged .67" and I don't use sandbags, just rest my off wrist on a block of wood to support the forend and the right elbow on the bench. The bore in my rifle is worn and dark, but it shows promise.