New Rifle For Me

[StarMetal]

I picked me up a new military rifle that has been sporterized. I'm thinking many of you may not know what it is. It's a Nazi G98/40 JHV. What that is, is a Hungarian rifle manufactured by them with changes suggested by the Germans. Basically it's a Mannlicher Schoenaur action except it feeds from an internal box magazine. Another difference is that it has the rear action stock socket like the Lee Enfields, but not in the sporter version I have. The rifles are very underrated and unappreciated of all the German war rifles. They are also pretty dang rare. It's in 8x57 Mauser caliber of course and it was done by some gunsmith over in Europe somewhere at or before WWII. It's a lovely rifle and hard to tell it's military except for all the Nazi proof markings on it. A WWII vet brought back returning from the war. I'll post some pictures of it when I get some.

Here's a website that Dutch sent me to give you an idea of the military configuration. My sporter looks nothing like that except for the action.

http://www.hungariae.com/Mann9840.htm

I took it out and shot it some today with cast and it's going to be a humdinger. The action is very smooth. Almost as smooth as my Krag.

[Multigunner]

IIRC the fitting where the butt stock meets fore end is separate from the receiver, unlike the Enfield where the socket is integral with the action body.

[StarMetal]

IIRC the fitting where the butt stock meets fore end is separate from the receiver, unlike the Enfield where the socket is integral with the action body.

Correct...I didn't point out it was separate. I meant a two piece stock like the Lee Enfields.

http://www.sunblest.net/gun/manual/Mann43Assy.jpg

[StarMetal]

Here's the pictures of my new G98/40 JHV.
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg51/starmetal47/G98-40RightSide1.jpghttp://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg51/starmetal47/G98-40LeftSide1.jpghttp://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg51/starmetal47/G98-40CloseAction1.jpghttp://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg51/starmetal47/G98-40RightButtS1.jpghttp://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg51/starmetal47/G98-40Cheek1.jpghttp://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg51/starmetal47/G98-40Top1.jpg

[Multigunner]

Thats a fine looking rifle, first of this type I've seen with a sporter stock.

The fitting used for the two piece military stock looks to be adaptable to most conventional receivers.

A removable buttstock always made more sense to me than a takedown barrel for a compact sporter package.

[StarMetal]

What was the real reason they used a buttstock socket, was it to save wood or something else entirely?

Thanks for the kind words.

[Tazman1602]

I LOVE the spoon handle Star, and I know what kind of work that stock inlay takes. NICE rifle!!

Art

[Dutch4122]

That's a really nice find, Joe.

Btw, your PM has been answered. :)

[StarMetal]

Thanks guys. I've never seen a European rifle done up in this manner especially of that age. I can't tell that the butter knife had was put on. Good job whoever done it.

[Urny]

Nice rifle, Joe. I have a sporter version, too, that has a Lyman receiver sight with the swinging gallows arm. Maybe I'll learn to take and post pictures and get one up here. The rifle came from a Gunbroker ad, and didn't take long to earn a permanent spot in the safe.
No butter knife bolt handle on mine.

[NickSS]

The enfields had replaceable butt stocks so that they could be fitted to the soldier as they were available in different lengths. They were also more cheaply replaced if damaged. I do not know about the Hungarians reasons but think it may be for similar reasons.

[Multigunner]

The enfields had replaceable butt stocks so that they could be fitted to the soldier as they were available in different lengths. They were also more cheaply replaced if damaged. I do not know about the Hungarians reasons but think it may be for similar reasons.

The Enfields had three or four butt stock sizes, since they actually had entire rifle companies of very short soldiers, as well as native troops who were very small and some that were near giants. A wide variety of sizes spread over a world spanning empire.

The British had already used two piece stocks for decades, for the various Martini type rifles, and found it easier to obtain good wood in these shorter lengths.

[357maximum]

That is sharp Joe...I would be proud to be the custodian of that critter....I think ya done real good...congrats. ;)

When you get time.....can I get a close up of the rear sight? It would be much appreciated.

[KCSO]

The butterknife looks to be like what Brownell's sells now and they did one fine job on that gun. It doesn't reall look European though, The fore end tip with spacer rather than a schnabel and the diamond inlays, and the flutes at the comb of the stock. Is the cheek piece paneled? It has a 1950's flavor to it though. That's one I would like to get a real good look at.

The reason for the two piece stocks was wood, its a lot easier stocking with short pieces and still have good grain and stability. The same reason the Jap rifles and some others were pieced together.

[StarMetal]

KSCO,

That's what I thought was the reason on the two piece wood too. I also agree with you on that the rifle doesn't have that old European look. I'll have to dig into it more from the fellow I got it from. The white spacer is the one thing I don't like about it. Now had I owned this when I was in high school that spacer would have been vogue.

[StarMetal]

That is sharp Joe...I would be proud to be the custodian of that critter....I think ya done real good...congrats. ;)

When you get time.....can I get a close up of the rear sight? It would be much appreciated.

Here you go Mike and if anyone can identify this rear sight, please do so.

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg51/starmetal47/RearSight2.jpg

[BruceB]

[QUOTE=Multigunner;851635]The Enfields had three or four butt stock sizes, since they actually had entire rifle companies of very short soldiers, as well as native troops who were very small and some that were near giants. A wide variety of sizes spread over a world spanning empire."

After decades have passed, I STILL remember how to arrange a company of troops into the preferred condition of having the shortest men in the middle of the formation and the tallest on the ends. This gave a much-better "look" to the group on parade, instead of having all various heights mixed higgledy-piggledy in the ranks.

"Company...tallest on the right, shortest on the left, in single rank...SIZE!" (Mass confusion ensues as sergeants decide who is taller or shorter than the next man. Finally we have a single rank, graduated in height.)

"From the right...NUMBER!"

"Odd numbers one pace step forward, even numbers one pace step back...MARCH!" (We now have two ranks, two paces apart.)

"Front rank right turn, rear rank left turn, ranks right and left....TURN." (Ranks are now facing opposite directions.)

"Company, into three ranks, quick MARCH!" As the line passes him, a sergeant taps each man in turn, saying "front, center, rear" to assign each to a rank in the formation.

When this is finished, we have a company in three ranks, with tallest men on the ends, graduating smoothly to the shortest soldiers in the middle of the company (or platoon) formation. Looks good on parade.

Back on topic, it appears that ALL of the #4 Rifles in the Irish contract of the mid-50s have "S" (short) butt-stocks. I'm not sure why. These are the #4s which occasionally show up on the market still in the factory wrap i.e.: brand new. Truly beautiful rifles, and my "Miz Liz" is one of them.

Issued butt-stocks that I saw in the Canadian Army were "L" (long) "N" (normal) "S" (short) and "B" (bantam). They did make efforts to equip individual soldiers with the most-suitable stock length.

Joe, that is a very fine find you made. I think I'm jealous...

[StarMetal]

[QUOTE=Multigunner;851635]The Enfields had three or four butt stock sizes, since they actually had entire rifle companies of very short soldiers, as well as native troops who were very small and some that were near giants. A wide variety of sizes spread over a world spanning empire."

After decades have passed, I STILL remember how to arrange a company of troops into the preferred condition of having the shortest men in the middle of the formation and the tallest on the ends. This gave a much-better "look" to the group on parade, instead of having all various heights mixed higgledy-piggledy in the ranks.

"Company...tallest on the right, shortest on the left, in single rank...SIZE!" (Mass confusion ensues as sergeants decide who is taller or shorter than the next man. Finally we have a single rank, graduated in height.)

"From the right...NUMBER!"

"Odd numbers one pace step forward, even numbers one pace step back...MARCH!" (We now have two ranks, two paces apart.)

"Front rank right turn, rear rank left turn, ranks right and left....TURN." (Ranks are now facing opposite directions.)

"Company, into three ranks, quick MARCH!" As the line passes him, a sergeant taps each man in turn, saying "front, center, rear" to assign each to a rank in the formation.

When this is finished, we have a company in three ranks, with tallest men on the ends, graduating smoothly to the shortest soldiers in the middle of the company (or platoon) formation. Looks good on parade.

Back on topic, it appears that ALL of the #4 Rifles in the Irish contract of the mid-50s have "S" (short) butt-stocks. I'm not sure why. These are the #4s which occasionally show up on the market still in the factory wrap i.e.: brand new. Truly beautiful rifles, and my "Miz Liz" is one of them.

Issued butt-stocks that I saw in the Canadian Army were "L" (long) "N" (normal) "S" (short) and "B" (bantam). They did make efforts to equip individual soldiers with the most-suitable stock length.

Joe, that is a very fine find you made. I think I'm jealous...

Thanks Bruce, you'd be welcomed to shoot it. Interesting on arranging the troops and the buttstock information.

[jonk]

I'd be proud to own it but sad at the same time that some bubba destroyed a fairly rare rifle, even if he did it with class and skill.

I know exactly what it is. That's only a 3 out of 10 on the obscurity scale compared to some of what I shoot, own, or at least want to own...

[StarMetal]

I'd be proud to own it but sad at the same time that some bubba destroyed a fairly rare rifle, even if he did it with class and skill.

I know exactly what it is. That's only a 3 out of 10 on the obscurity scale compared to some of what I shoot, own, or at least want to own...

Don't forget this was done when there was no rarity and the collectors weren't anal fanatics like they are today. I was told a WWII vet brought this rifle back so it has to have been done originally a long time ago and possibly redone not too long ago.

[Multigunner]

Bantam Batalions WW1

The formation of the bantams

In 1914 the Member of Parliament for Birkenhead, Alfred Bigland, pressed the War Office for permission to form a battalion of men who were under regulation size but otherwise fit for service. A few days later, some 3,000 men had volunteered, many of whom had previously been rejected as being under height.

The original men were formed into the 1st and 2nd Birkenhead Battalions of the Cheshire Regiment (later redesignated the 15th and 16th Bns). Other regiments began to recruit similarly: the Lancashire Fusiliers, West Yorkshires, Royal Scots, and Highland Light Infantry most notably. Many of the recruits were miners. Eventually these units were formed into the 35th Division.

Another Division, the 40th, had a mixture of bantam and regulation units, although it is generally recognised as a bantam formation.

The bantams were very popular at home and were often featured in the press. However, by the end of 1916, it was found that the general fitness and condition of men volunteering as bantams was no longer up to the standard required. Brigades were informed that no more undersized men would be accepted, and the Divisions lost their bantam status as replacements diluted the number of small men in the mix.


http://www.1914-1918.net/whatbantam.htm

[357maximum]

Here you go Mike and if anyone can identify this rear sight, please do so.

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg51/starmetal47/RearSight2.jpg

Thanks Joe....that is a neat sight.....I also wish someone could tell us from whence it came.