blackhorn 209

[shotman]

anyone use it? at the price It must be good. does it smoke like the real black?

[montana_charlie]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=849537&postcount=2

[stubshaft]

More energy per grain than even triple 7. Very little smoke and they recommend a 209 primer to set it off. Seems to be designed for the inliners.

Oh and it is running $39.95 for a 10oz can in my neck of the woods.

[shotman]

Thats why I asked its twice + the price of anything else.. If it dont smoke then I will stay with the 5477 in the Savage.

[frank505]

We have used it in our 45's. It does smoke lot and the bore is nice and wet with either SPG or Lars Carnuba Red.We love the stuff for light loads, havent tried in a 45/70 yet. Soon.

[John Boy]

Shotman, you may want to read this thread about Blackhorn on The Open Range for details ...
http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/index.php?topic=6150.0

Summary:
"Haag's findings were that Blackhorn 209, while basically nitrocellulose contained inclusions of potassium nitrite and sulphur, which may create potassium sulphate, possibly sulphur trioxide, or dioxide combining with water in the air form sulfuric acid. He concluded that there is potassium nitrite and elemental sulphur embedded in what is basically a nitrocellulose product"

[shotman]

John: Thanks that would account for the smoke. but at price I think black is better for a couple hunderd rounds

[RMulhern]

:killingpc:groner:[smilie=b::killingpc[smilie=b::groner:

[rbt50]

i tried it in my sharps 45/110 and i got some good groups,but at 33.00 for 10 oz i will find something else.

[brice4570]

i have a h&r 4570 tried blackhorn with the best results yet over anything i have tried yet . using lee mould hollow base 405 gr. with 32 grs. by weight not volume over powder wad and
and magnum primers , spg lube , shooting 1 1/2 at 100 yards.
not much smoke , no fouling , simple cleanup .
i love the stuf

[mooman76]

The only thing I have heard bad about it is the price. I know I won't be buying it unless the price comes down though.

[ddeaton]

I just bought a small jug of this at Bass Pro tonight. Only $29. I just want to play with some and load some 44 special and 45 LC. Article about it in latest Handloader mag.

[cajun shooter]

As long as the real BP is sold and delivered or in FTF deals I will never shoot a sub. Why pay such a outrageous price for a fake when the real may be purchased for as little as $10 a pound? They don't make a fake BP that is as much fun to shoot as the original. Every time I touch off some I can put myself back in time and know the same sensation as those hundreds of years ago. It's like standing on the ground at the Wheat field, Pickett's charge, the Alamo, or just in the woods hunting for food. That feeling cannot be passed into me with any other powder made.

[longranger]

None of the "substitute" powders are better than real B/P they all need to be cleaned after shooting and are more expensive,I don't see any advantage over real B/P.

[ddeaton]

They need to be cleaned, but not near as corrosive. I have 10 lbs of black laying around that I shoot in my flints all the time. I would never use a substitute in my front stuffers, just wanted to try something a little different in the single action cartridge pistols. I need something to try to get them out of the safe.

[cajun shooter]

ddeaton, I am sorry but you sir are very wrong about the Real BP being more corrosive than the subs. Starting with Pyrodex which is the most of any thing made. The others can and will show rust the very next day. As far as the article in Handloader I almost want to cancel my subscription because of it. The author speaks of loading by volume with real black and weighing the subs. I have posted so much on this but will not stop as long as I breathe. He has it backwards and is not that smart. BP has always been weighed by weight. Go and look at your old boxes and you will find the amount printed. The calibers that have two numbers are so because the back set is telling you the amount of powder in that shell. 44-40 was loaded with 40 grains, 45-70 was 70 grains and so on. They had black powder that was so good that the instructions said that the user had no need to clean until his next use of the rifle. Show me where the history books make notes of the powder making the guns so rusty that they were thrown away. Show me where they make any reference to a gun being so rusty that they lost the battle. The writer of the article even went as far as saying that 209 maybe shipped with other powders with out paying a Haz-mat fee as you have for BP. This guy has never purchased powder via any delivery in his life. I would not believe anything he said even if his tongue was stamped as a true copy. I have been with Handloader for many years but this idiot might change that.

[Bullshop Junior]

cajun shooter
Might I ask the name of the author?

[longranger]

The author in the Handloader magazine article regarding Blackthorn 209 powder is Steve Gash.He also claimed of great accuracy with his Sharp's replica rifle.He did show a small portion of a target showing a 100 yd. group that looked good.

[excess650]

BH209 is the best thing going for 209 ignition inlines. It is pricey, but its measured by volume and not weight, so 10oz roughly equates to the same volume as BP. In my Omega I've shot as many as 40 shots without cleaning, and the last shot loaded just as easily as the 2nd. I'm speaking of sabots and jacketed projectiles, and not more easily loaded powerbelts or maxi/minies, etc. I clean with Hoppes #9.

IMO, there isn't a real good reason to use it in cartridges at its price. It can be bought for $26 or so per container online, but requires paying the hazmat, so unless you're buying in quantity, its still pricey.

I'm not a fan of any of the other substitutes. All seem to suffer from fouling and/or shelf life issues, so I'll use real BP in sidelock MLers and cartridges.

[cwskirmisher]

If you go their website, BH209 is actually NOT a BP subsitute - it is actually a smokeless powder formulation to perform like holy black both in pressures and burn rate. That accounts for the clean burn and no residue. OK, by strict definition, it IS a substitute for BP, but not in the traditional sense.

[1874Sharps]

I think BH209 is geared toward the modern inlines, as some have said, and have no doubt of its efficacy for this purpose. However, I must confess that I became a BP purist about six years back and have never looked back. Smokeless powder is just a passing fad anyway, right?

As far as corrosion of the fouling of various BP subs and the real thing goes, I have not done any quantitative studies as to how fast corrosion occurs. However, it has been my qualitative experience that CajunShooter is dead on right about this. The fouling of the subs seems to be more corrosive (and at a faster rate) than good old BP. This result was surprising to me when experienced, as I figured the opposite would be true. Please understand I am not throwing cold water on the idea of progress (and BH209 is a remarkable jump ahead). There is certainly a place for it and it fills a market and works well in certain applications. It is just that the Holy Black is pretty hard to beat in alot of ways and the price is right.

[ddeaton]

Ok, it is advertised as less corrosive than black powder. A few here are saying it is worse. I bought a jug of it to play with and see what it will do. You know how things go when you get bored. I loaded up some 45 LC and will post my results. I am going to load up some real BP loads also and give them a try. I will never run a sub in my flints. My thoughts were the cleaning factor in the cartridge guns. So you guys are telling me I will still need to soak my brass and scrub my pistol right away after shooting these BH rounds?

[Turboman]

Im strictly a blackpowder shooter for my sharps,But i came across 10 cans of the stuff at a estate sale,Got no use for it myself,So if anyones in the north fl area and wants to try some,Ill be more than happy to give it to ya at a good price,Dont want the hassle of trying to ship sorry guys.
jeff

[montana_charlie]

Ok, it is advertised as less corrosive than black powder. A few here are saying it is worse.
I think you have gotten the replies mixed together.
Let's start with the guy who said BH209 is not a 'BP Substitute'. He has a good take on it. BH209 does not try to 'simulate' a black powder charge. It simply makes it possible to use a smokeless powder to achieve BP pressures...while retaining all of the good things about smokeless powders.

You could call it a 'BP Alternative'

The BP subs, however, do try to simulate BP loads. They contain 'stuff' that is designed to recreate the proper 'pomp and circumstance' expected when BP is fired...and that 'stuff' makes them more corrosive than real gunpowder.

I understand that Powder Inc. is selling some factory loads charged with BH209...so they must think it has value.

CM

[cajun shooter]

Well I shoot nothing but the real BP but to tell you the truth there is no way I will ever buy 209 as it sells for $29 for a 10 oz bottle at Midway before any other charges. Swiss powder and Goex Cartridge will do fine. It is way above my pay grade to shoot.

[ddeaton]

Cajun, I am about to join you brother. All I have sized up are some 200 gr round/flats at the moment. I want to load some of these in the cowboy special brass with BP. Should I use FF or FFF?

[garbear]

I use blackhorn 209 in my inline omega x7. I have also tried it in my 357 reoads just to experiment. I like it in my inline, but use t7FFF in my side lockers. I used to use pyrodex but found T7 to better. I can't find bp in my area. I would like to get some and try it in my muzleloaders including my inline.

[ddeaton]

Cajun, did you see this months Handloader mag? A lot of backpeddling on the Blackhorn 209 article from last month, even a full page ad from the manufacturer. I always assume these guys are the experts. [smilie=b: