Lyman #358009 in .35 Whelen

[richhodg66]

I finally got around to casting some of these and plan to try them with some Reloader 15. With a similar weight bullet someone else cast, my best accuracy was in the 49-51 grain range.

Anyone else shoot this bullet? Any recommendations for it?

I ultimately want a good cast bullet deer hunting load. This bullet has a round nose, not flat as I'd prefer for that. I cast this batch from wheel weights with two ounces of 95/5 solder thrown into a ten pound pot of WW metal, so they shouldn't be overly hard. SO I guess the question is, can I get decent expansion with this nose shape at the velocities I can obtain with good accuracy, or should I consider flattening the nose or switching to a different bullet?

[Ben]

If you have any doubts about expansion, here is the answer :

Send the Mold for HP'ing :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/358009%20HP/PICT0001.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/358009%20HP/PICT0005.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/358009%20HP/PICT0006.jpg

[richhodg66]

I actually thought about doing that to one cavity, but I'd really rather not. At least not until I try some expansion testing and/or flattening the noses on them.

How much does this modification cost if I decide to do it?

[Le Loup Solitaire]

Alliant Reloder 15 is a bit slower than IMR 4320, around the same as Accurate 2520, but not quite as slow as IMR 4350. 45 grains of the 2520 according to the Lee Manual will get you around 2088 fps. Thats lots more than would be needed for deer, but if your accuracy is good then stick with it. I've used only the IMR stuff and at somewhat lower loadings and it has worked fine me with this bullet LLS

[RugerFan]

Actually that round nose will work just fine for deer hunting. The ensuing wound channel/cavitation will be impressive. Give it a try.

But, if you're bent on a flat nose 358009, look at the bullets in the bottom pic of this post: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=840043&postcount=15 Those came from a group buy mould made by http://www.oldwestbulletmoulds.com/ I'm guessing you could probably get him to cut one of those moulds for you.

[richhodg66]

I'm not bent on a flat nose, just thought it would transfer energy more efficiently, but the RN should work too. Guess I need to get my load development figured out, get some wet newspaper together and do some expansion testing.

A friend cast me some 280 grain FN from a custom mold he has. The design has a very large meplat and I'm sure would sink battleships if I needed it to, so I may order a copy of that mold, but I already have the Lyman, so I'll do some shooting with it before deciding.

[richhodg66]

LLS, have you used this bullet on deer? If so, what was your alloy and how did they expand?

I am actually just begnning with this rifle, but have done a lot of cast bullet loading in others, mostly .30 calibers. I've also never built up a hunting cast bullet load either. I have a lot of IMR4320 on hand and like it for a lot of things. I wanted to try the RL-15 because so many guys had good things to say about it, and it does seem to do well. Sounds like some camparison testing is in order.

[Ben]

richhodg66 :

Cost around $35 or so to have one cavity HP'd, cost depends on who you choose to do the work.

Our own Buckshot did mine, Erik in OR also does excellent work.

Ben

[waksupi]

I've used the Bator Heavy, which is a basic clone of this bullet. It has worked well on deer, elk, and buffalo for me. Don't mess with it. It's fine as it is.

[Shuz]

richhodg66--I have found 48g of 4064 to be an accurate and effective load on moose and elk outta my .35 Whelen with the 358009 in 3:1 alloy(ww:lino). Velocity from my 1:12 twist ,24" bbl is 2150fps.

[richhodg66]

Waksupi, what exactly is a Bator type of bullet? I've heard the name a time or two, but I'm ignorant, apparently. That's good to hear that you've had good success with a similar bullet. How hard an alloy do you use with it?

Shuz, I don't have any 4064 on hand rigght now, but have used it in a lot of things before. I'll give that a try or something similar with IMR 4320 or RL-15. I also plan to use a softer alloy than yours simply because I don't have good access to linotypt like I used to.

[softpoint]

Before buying a 358009 mold, we tried commercial counterparts that had flat noses and had feeding problems in two of the three rifles they were tried in. The original roundnose 358009 gave no problems. So you may want to try some flatnose boolits before you alter your mold. Hollowpointing may be the better option.
I think too much is made of the advantages of a flatnose over a roundnose. The largest game on earth has been killed with roundnose solids. While a flatnose with a large meplat is fine, it isn't of paramount importance IMHO:coffee:

[richhodg66]

I'm going to try to get the stuff together for an expansion test this weekend. If the 358009 works OK in wet newsprint as cast, I'll just use it and not worry about it anymore. I really prefer not to alter the mold (HPs are a pain to cast in my experience), and I really don't want to buy another mold right now. Maybe I've been over thinking this.

[Tracy]

I have the '009 mould. I bought it about 10 years ago as a companion to the 20" .35 Whelen Mauser 98 I had just built. I cast it of straight WW metal, air cooled, and my top load is 46 grains of pulldown 4895.
I haven't tried it on large game yet, but I have hunted prairie dogs with that load. It had ample stopping power for that task.

[Blammer]

I haven't tried it on large game yet, but I have hunted prairie dogs with that load. It had ample stopping power for that task.



That is hilarious!:p

[richhodg66]

Yeah, I hear those prairie dogs sometimes charge if you wound them. Maybe I oughta get a .458, you can never be sure!

[Greg in Malad]

I have a friend who hunts rabbits with a .458, penetration is never an issue. This afternoon we sized and lubed some RCBS 500 gr. FP boolits for deer season this fall.

[kaiser]

I have an ancient tool that consists of a bullet "nose cap" with a hole in it for a small drill bit of about 1/8th inch. The nose cap will accommodate most bullets up to .35 caliber and with the bullet held in position, one can drill a hollow point in the bullet. two drill bits came with the "hollow pointer" and the cap provides the "stop" for the depth of the bit and helps center the bullet. I use a dremel tool for this task. (I do not know the brand of this tool.) I have also used this tool on jacketed bullets after "snipping off" the tips to accommodate a specific magazine length.
I also set up a hollow pointer for a 45/70 bullet on a drill press using a short "step" drill bit (to limit the depth) of less than 1/4" and a block of wood "cratered out" to center the bullet. When I get everything lined up just right, it hollow points a Lee 340gr .459 bullet with nary an effect on accuracy. (I have not had a chance to try this bullet on game as yet, so I do not know if expansion is enhanced.)
My experience with hollow points designed for large game in jacketed bullets (.243, .257, .264, .277, .284, .308, .318, .323 .358, .375, .379, and .458 et al) have been that expansion most always depends on bullet material (composition) and terminal velocity. In other words, if velocity is high and the bullet is soft, expansion may be maximum and penetration minimum. Increase the jacket thickness or "hardness" of the material and expansion can be delayed. By varying either component by one degree or another, you will alter the effects of a bullet on game; however, I've found that with normally cast lead bullets (No 2 Lyman composition or similar) there seems to be little measurable effects on a game. (I do believe that increasing the diameter of the bullet above .30 cal has more effect on the "killing" capability of a cast lead bullet; thus, the .35 Whelen seems to have a more terminal effect on game than smaller calibers.
To me, the advantage of using any cast bullet instead of jacketed is the insurance that the bullet most always penetrates through an animal and almost never comes apart (plus the sheer economy and enjoyment of making and shooting bullets you have made!). Hollow pointing is fun as an experiment, but deriving the "perfect" lead composition for hunting a particular game animal is a far more fruitful endeavor to pursuit IMO. My .02

[nkornmeyer]

Sorry to hijack/intrude but I'm apparently too new of a meber to buy/trade. I'm looking for a lyman 358009 mold or something very close to that in weight. I already have a 232 grain I paid too much for. I prefer something flatnose but will settle for round nose. it's primarly going to be shot out of my remington 7600 35 whelen carbine

[Beerd]

how about this one from Accurate Molds?

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=36-280B-D.png
..

[ddixie884]

Sorry to hijack/intrude but I'm apparently too new of a meber to buy/trade. I'm looking for a lyman 358009 mold or something very close to that in weight. I already have a 232 grain I paid too much for. I prefer something flatnose but will settle for round nose. it's primarly going to be shot out of my remington 7600 35 whelen carbine

I beleive you can still buy in the classifieds even if you are a Nuby.............

[nkornmeyer]

I actually called them yesterday
Was hoping not to spend that much but I will if I have to
Is anyone selling anything similar in the classifieds

[curiousgeorge]

I built my Mauser actioned 35 Whelan with a 1-12 twist and 24" barrel back in the late 90's. Bought the 358009 mold and have shot it a lot and killed several deer. That big 35 caliber blunt round nose will do everything you need and more. I want a flat point on my 30 and 8mm slugs, but I have not found it to be necessary on 35 and 45 caliber slugs.

I am using IMR-3031 to get right at or slightly under 2000 fps. Accuracy is your main goal. The ranges that I have killed deer have been from 25 to no more than 65 yards. I have never wondered or even worried about expansion. Complete penetration, even with a couple questionable angled shots, lots of blood and no lost or even tracking required. None went more than 25 yds and several DRT.

Great heavy bullet for the 35 Whelan and probably more than needed for whitetails.