Leading test with Lar45's lubes

[44man]

Glenn was good enough to send me some lube to test. The most important is the BPCR lube but the weather has been too lousy to shoot it.
I went down today with my .475 revolver for a leading test and it was dark and started to rain but I fired them all. I shot without a solid rear rest, had the devil of a time seeing the red dot on the target so I did not expect tight groups. I have to design a target I can see.
I chose my very accurate PB boolit that always leaves some lead towards the muzzle but none at the forcing cone.
I started with carnauba red which shot very well. Next was Alox 2500 plus, then 50-50 Alox and finally Felix lube. I cleaned the bore good between each lube and the first shot was always out a little. The strange thing was the direction the first shot was out for each lube.
The only one to give leading over a longer length of the bore was the 50-50 Alox, it was in the full length of the barrel. The rest of the lubes had lead in the last 3" or so of the bore. However the first patch with each lube had the same amount of lead on them and the lead pushed completely out with the second patch and was gone with a slight brushing.
Can I say one lube is better then another? NO, they all worked very well and the texture of each is just what I like. I can not say to any of you that you have to buy one over the other at this point since I need to test more under better conditions.
I can say without question that they are all better then any store bought lube I ever used. Glenn is doing a might fine job and you can't go wrong with any one of his lubes.
These were shot at 50 yd's.
OOPS, you can't tell which is which. The top is 50-50 Alox, the bottom left is Carnaube Red, center is 2500 Plus and the right is Felix.
As you can see, the targets suck for a red dot because I ran out of my other targets.

[RANGER RICK]

Thanks for letting us know your results .
I did a test for Lar and the end of last year with his new lube for the BPCR type rifles .
I tested it in the 45-120 ,45-70,45-110 and the 50-140 .
All tests were done at 100 yards .
This was a winter test .
I also used SPG with the same loads .
There was no difference between the two lubes .Save yourself some money and get Lars BPCR lube .

RR

[44man]

Thanks RR, I wasted money on SPG once. I don't like it. Glenn's high temp lube looks great and I can't wait to try it. I need a nice day so I can haul all of my junk down into my woods. Takes me three trips and the hill is steep.

[44man]

I made up a bunch of different targets and am going to put them all on the backstop to see which is best, then I will make a lot of them.
I am also going to load enough to fire a fouling shot off target with each lube before shooting for groups.
Group testing will be next. Yeah, any excuse to shoot more!

[Bucks Owin]

His Carnuba Red is superb IMO.....

FWIW,

Dennis

[GP100man]

hi fellers im new here,but been casting&shooting 357&44 cal since "87.i got a sample of"lars45" lubes.shot 100 rounds of 357 with lees 158 gr.rnfp on top of3.5gr. clays &lubed with carnuba red.no laeding &cleaned up qwik with eds red.ohshot with GP100 6" barrel.soft load but looking for certian power factor.

[44man]

I chose the boolit I did because it always leads the end of the barrel a little and I don't know why. It doesn't hurt accuracy and shoots a lot better then in my test today. It was so lousy out that I just wanted to get done and I could not hold on those targets anyway. It has been raining steady all day now and the yard is like a swamp. I wanted to see if there is any lube that would stop the leading.
I shoot the Lee PB and my other boolits without leading and they are the same diameter and alloy.
Most of the lead will be right at the muzzle and it wipes out easy. There is plenty of lube on the boolit too with 3 grease grooves. Strange critter.

[Bass Ackward]

I chose the boolit I did because it always leads the end of the barrel a little and I don't know why.

There is plenty of lube on the boolit too with 3 grease grooves. Strange critter.


44Man,

I am totally guessing here, but on a pistol bullet it would be hard to get three grooves in that it didn't make for too narrow of bands. How narrow is narrow? Well, the answer is narrow enough for the conditions you are establishing. These bands would maintain shape only as long as hydrolic pressure was maintained. You can get away with this more on a rifle bullet because less lube is blown off in a throat. And in a throat, you can minimize this problem by choking. And in a revolver, that forcing cone covers a fair amount of the bullets bearing area distance. Another reason heavier bullets shoot .... better. Even if you have a seal from the front of the bullet, gas directed by the cone will still remove lube from the bottom band / groove until it enters the bore where it is protected.

With a thin base band and no lube in that groove, the forces of deformation would be more likely to cause leading and that is my guess as to why no lube solves the problem. IF my guess is correct, you should see more lube either caked in the cone or have more of a cleanup mess externally on the revolver. Solution? A wider base band of coarse. But to make this work, use a faster powder so that while the lube is still displaced, there is less pressure at the muzzle to cause the problem.

Did I win?

[44man]

I see what you are saying so I measured my boolit and the Lee boolit that does not lead.
My boolit; GG's are .050" wide and .025" deep. 3 round bottom grooves.
Lee; GG's are .035" and .018" deep. 2 flat bottom grooves and a lower crimp groove that I fill.
My boolit does have a smaller base band. I never find a lot of grease or crud at the forcing cone but some lubes leave a lot of grease on the outsides of the brass. Lar's carnauba lube left the brass clean but I still had exactly the same amount of leading.
Someday I will remake this boolit with a wide base band and see what happens. It will be hard to figure out because I have made boolits with wide base bands and less but larger GG's and they do not shoot near as good as this one does. It seems to be a juggling act, designing a boolit that does not lead and one that shoots good.
This is how it shoots when I rest properly, see better and have a better target. Believe me when I say it is very hard to do with a red dot that covers a whole target at longer ranges.
These are 50, 100 and 200 yd's. ( at 200 yd's I have to aim at a disk above these targets that measures 17" in diameter.)

[Bass Ackward]

Someday I will remake this boolit with a wide base band and see what happens. It will be hard to figure out because I have made boolits with wide base bands and less but larger GG's and they do not shoot near as good as this one does. It seems to be a juggling act, designing a boolit that does not lead and one that shoots good.


44man,

Bullet design does not get the respect it deserves because it takes so long to realize the importance. But it seems to me that the reason that some guys get accuracy from one design that others complain about is that they have latched on to what is needed to make something work.

Balancing act is correct. Now bear in mind, you are leading in the last inch or two of barrel. The farther up a bullet that you can place lube, the less of it you need. Also the lesser quality it can be and get by. Maybe if you had made a wider or deeper GG behind the first band, you would never have seen the problem. Since the bullet needs the most diameter for strength at the base, since you are cherrying, why not make that front or first grease groove a little deeper next time. That will also serve to keep the weight on the back of the bullet where it stabilizes better. There is no law that GGs all have to be the same width and depth.

And it could be that a wide base band here in this case is only .010 more than what you have if you want to use the same hardness. Or you can strengthen your bullet by going harder. Many ways to skin the cat.

Speaking of cat, anyone heard from Carpetman lately?

[44man]

I will try it when I get some time. My front band is narrow on this boolit but there is room for a little larger groove. Back to the drawing board! I might also try one with a GG ahead of the crimp groove.

[45 2.1]

Bullet design does not get the respect it deserves because it takes so long to realize the importance. But it seems to me that the reason that some guys get accuracy from one design that others complain about is that they have latched on to what is needed to make something work.

John-
There is a lot more there than you said.

[RANGER RICK]

44 Man you will more than likely change over to use exclusively ( spelling ) Lars High temp red Carnuba lube .
I have tried most of the lubes on the market and for about 5 years I used my own lube .
One part of my reloading room looks like I am a chemist !!!!!
I have switched over to use nothing but the high temp Carnube lube that Lars make .
I think I have bought right around 200 plus sticks of the red lube and about 30 sticks of the BPCR lube .I am due to stock up again very shortly .
I get absolutly no leading what so ever and 99% of the bullet's I lube are for the 500 mag and the 460 XVR .
He sells it sheaper than I can produce it my self ( time ,ingredent's and clean up )and plus I do not have to try and make it when the wife is not home .
I have been scolded more than once for using the kitchen stove , I thought I cleaned it up well !!! Not .

Enjoy

RR

[David R]

44man,
Thanks for that info.

Ditto on the carnuba red. I use it a lot. for the last 6 months, I mix 2 sticks carnuba red with one stick 50/50 then pour it in the sizer. The 50/50 makes it a little softer. I use this lube on everything from putt putt 38s to 2400 fps in the '06. NO leading for me except in the 38, but that is not a lube problem.

I quit searching once I tried that and will always use it as long as its available. I probably should stock up. I am down to about 15 sticks.

Thanks again
David