38 special +P in 357 MAG

[rtracy2001]

Banking on the adage that the only dumb question is one you didn't ask but should have, here I go.

My manuals don't explicitly state that it is OK to shoot 38 special +P in a 357 Mag revolver (Colt trooper MK III). The pressures seem to be somewhat less than magnum pressures, (or equal in some cases) so I figure it should be OK.

Am I right, or am I missing something?

[mike in co]

Banking on the adage that the only dumb question is one you didn't ask but should have, here I go.

My manuals don't explicitly state that it is OK to shoot 38 special +P in a 357 Mag revolver (Colt trooper MK III). The pressures seem to be somewhat less than magnum pressures, (or equal in some cases) so I figure it should be OK.

Am I right, or am I missing something?


not an issue...except for cleaning.ensure the cylinder is clean when done. continued shooting of 38's can leave a ring in the cylinder the may make inserting 357's impossible.

just clean well.

plus p is 18500, 357 is 35000...so not an issue in the pressure area.

mike in co

[Shiloh]

Not an issue.

As stated, hot .38's may cause flame-cutting in the cylinders. +P's aren't hot but they are warm.
I fire LOTS of .38's through mine, but they are of the target to midrange variety. No issues with .357 mag. chambering.

Shiloh

[9.3X62AL]

+1 to all the above, and I'll add that one of the BIG selling points for the 357 Magnum when revolvers held sway was this very attribute--their ability to safely use shorter and less powerful 38 Specials in addition to full-tilt Magnums.

I never got erosion in any of my revolver chambers, did I sure as heck got crud deposits between the case mouth of 38 Special hulls and the chamber step. This consisted of carbon, lead, lube, primer gick, powder ash, and whatnot--and was a Main Street Headache to remove. My method was to let the cylinder soak in a Hoppe's bath overnight, then chuck a brass/bronze/copper (NOT STAINLESS STEEL) 38 bore brush into a hand power drill motor, and run the brush SLOWLY in the charge holes to oblige the crud to detach. This was back in The Dark Ages, not long after the Battle of Hastings. There are now some very high-end cleaners that should remove this stuff more readily--some of those bore foams , or Ed's Red, etc.

The only "safety" issue that I could think of would be to fire Magnum ammo in a 357 Mag revolver that had those chamber deposits still in place. The deposits could have an effect on bullet release from the Magnum-length cartridges, with the potential to boost pressures accordingly. As Mike in CO pointed out, these deposits can interfere with full seating of 357 cartridges, but if the Magnum cartridge slides home and gets fired--there is the potential for undue strain to occur.

Your Trooper Mk III is bear-strong. I had 3 of them in 357 Magnum, and they are every bit as stout as a S&W 586/686, maybe a bit more.

[mooman76]

If you are loading 38+P I'd do it in 357 cases but other than that, what everyone else said.

[mike in co]

If you are loading 38+P I'd do it in 357 cases but other than that, what everyone else said.


why....it would be a missmarled case and there is no need with the low pressure involved.


mike in co

[rtracy2001]

Thanks all for the info. I figured there shouldn't be a big problem, but though it prudent to ask.

Ray

[mooman76]

Originally Posted by mooman76
If you are loading 38+P I'd do it in 357 cases but other than that, what everyone else said.


why....it would be a missmarled case and there is no need with the low pressure involved.


mike in co

I was saying this not because of perssure but because when 38's are fired allot in 357 chambers sometimes the 357 get difficult to chamber. It was just a opinion that is what I would do plus I would rather shoot hot 38s out of a 357 than grab them by mistake and shoot out of a 38, again that's just my opinion.

[mike in co]

Originally Posted by mooman76
If you are loading 38+P I'd do it in 357 cases but other than that, what everyone else said.



I was saying this not because of perssure but because when 38's are fired allot in 357 chambers sometimes the 357 get difficult to chamber. It was just a opinion that is what I would do plus I would rather shoot hot 38s out of a 357 than grab them by mistake and shoot out of a 38, again that's just my opinion.

lol.......
then it would not be a 38plus p would it ? it would be a lite 357......

and it is typically carbon build up in the cylinder not flame cutting as someone mentions. removing material would not impeed chambering...crud build up will. since most people use a copper remover and not a carbon remover..it builds up...

but none of that has to do with his question....

next

mike in co

[mooman76]

Well like I said it's just an opinion. He doesn't have to follow it, you don't have to follow it in fact nobody has to follow it. You don't even have to like it. It's just an opinion and that's the way I do it. Sorry my idea offended you.

[Crash_Corrigan]

I go with Mooman76 on this one. I have a few 357's and I usually load low pressure target and midrange loads in 357 cases just to keep the crud from building up in the cylinder.

It is a pain to clean out. I rarely load .38 Special cases at all. If I could lay my hands on a nice Smith Model 10 with a 4" bbl I would change that. However I really do enjoy shooting this caliber as it does not beat you up or cost a bunch of money to shoot.

[rhead]

The only danger would be if you had some NON plus p .38 special revilers also. Then you would have to practice very rigorous segregation of your ammo.

I clean the crud from my chambers with a slightly over belled .357 max case mounted on a handle and then follow up with normal cleaning.

[EDK]

The +P 38 in 357 revolvers is safe....in factory ammo.

My opinion is reload in 357 brass....avoid gas cutting, the crud ring from 38 specials, AND the potential for someone to use your hot loaded 38s in a *** gun....blowing it up and hurting himself.

I formerly lived in Madison county Illinois, frivolous lawsuit capitol of the world! My father got "crucified" in a civil suit after a grand jury cleared him on a pedestrian walking out between two parked cars and getting fatally injured. It literally wrecked his health by the time the case was dismissed and the insurance company gave a minimal settlement on an 88 year old woman's death. IF you've been here, you know the courts favor idiots.

I load lower end CAS/target loads in 38 Special brass.

:redneck: :cbpour: :Fire:

[9.3X62AL]

I've retired from cleaning out the crud ring created in Magnum chambers by Special brass. The use of Magnum brass in all "Magnum" revolver chambers accomplishes this nicely. So, I'm in camp with Mooman, EDK, and Crash on this subject, mostly due to laziness. I view gun cleaning in the same jaundiced light as I do case trimming, and any "cheat" I can employ to simplify or streamline the task will be cheerfully stolen, plagiarized, and utilized.

[rtracy2001]

The question was more confirming a suspicion of mine than anything else. I found it odd that my reloading manuals stated explicitly that 38 special loads were safe to shoot in 357 magnum revolvers, but the +P loads (listed as a different caliber than the 38 special) were not mentioned at all.
I do have a few comments on the conversation that ensued, just for the record.

1. I am the only one who ever shoots a reload of mine, either personally or under my direct supervision when the wife or kids shoot.

2. I only have one 38 caliber gun (the aforementioned trooper MK III).

3. For some odd reason .357 mag brass and ammo has been difficult to find and quite expensive when found. for that reason I shoot a 38s in my 357.

[mooman76]

Sorry, I didn't mean to take over your thread. I was just saying that is what I would do. If you want to use 38's in stead, there is certainly nothing wrong with that either and you didn't state whether you were shooting factory or reloads. Most of what I shoot in the 357 and 44 for that matter are more like +P loads. They are more comfortable to shoot and shoot well too. I did not too long ago accidently load up some hot loads in 44 special brass. I was showing a friend how to load and got to talking about it too much and not paying attention to what I was doing enough so I used the wrong data page. Anyway I shot them out of my 44 special and didn't like the loads being to hot but just finished them up in my 44 mag instead so everything worked out.

Happy shootin!

[rtracy2001]

Sorry, I didn't mean to take over your thread. I was just saying that is what I would do.

No worries, sometimes the scenic route is much more rewarding.


I did not too long ago accidently load up some hot loads in 44 special brass. I was showing a friend how to load and got to talking about it too much and not paying attention to what I was doing enough so I used the wrong data page.

I almost dit that with my 40 S&W. the book flipped over to the 10 mm page and I didn't notice until I went to do my final seating. for some odd reason i couln't get the OAL quite right?

[cowboy]

Howdy-
Really comin' in on the tail end of this, but...
I Have a Colt Trooper MK III .357, it gets a steady diet of .38 special reloads ( mostly Berry's or Rainier plated bullets, or when I'm not so "flush", cast SWC for "cost containment", or showin' off- the Trooper LOVES 158gr cast loads ).
Having done this with every .357 magnum I have ever owned ( most especially those I use for Cowboy Action Shooting, where cast bullets in .38 special cases and a LITTLE powder are the competitive rule in this caliber, in handguns) I can say that yes, if you shoot a LOT of cast bullets this way, you will have to clean up better. Have not had ANY problems with "gas cutting" related to the mild loads in 1/10" shorter cases. Cleaning with plated and jacketed .38 specials required, well, nothing special.
For those wondering or familiar with SASS stuff, my LEVER guns are proper .38 specials, as .357mag guns really seem to benefit ( in my experiences with them, anyway. Sold them off to make things easier on myself ) from .357 length brass ( did try loading bullets "out" further to get the same OAL, but never seemed to get the reliable results competition required ).
Just sayin'.

[Cowboy T]

rtracy2001 is right. .357 Magnum brass is hard to find. But .38 Special cases are all over the place!

My solution? I've gone back to Elmer Keith's way. I'm loading near-357M power rounds in .38 Spl +P cases. The only .357 Magnum gun I have is a Ruger Security-Six, and only *I* shoot these loads.

How do I know which is which? Easy. My rule is to use .38 Spl +P cases only for my Magnum loads. The 38 Spl (i. e. non +P) cases get my powder-puff load. This way, I know at a glance what's what. Obviously I separate by headstamp.

I don't get leading in my chambers, but I do get the carbon ring. That, too, is easy to deal with. Just scrub it out with some decent gun cleaning solvent (soak first), or use ultrasonic.

I have put *thousands* of .38 Spl rounds through the Security-Six. And what few .357 Magnum-cased rounds I have, the gun chambers and shoots those just fine, too.

.44 Magnum revolver owners who shoot .44 Special rounds have the exact same issue--the carbon ring. Same for .454 Casull owners who shoot .45 Colt. The solution is, of course, exactly the same. Just clean your gun like you're supposed to.