Star Lubesizer - small problem

[rjbishop]

I recently took delivery of my brand spanking new Star Lubesizer along with the heated base. I got it all set up per the directions, and it seems to be working great, aside from a small problem:

http://www.pervinco.com/Firearms/StarSizer/LubeBleed_9mm_002_Web.jpg

There are three spots of lube, each corresponding to where the die holes are located. I tried lowering the heat (using Magma Blue Lube), and this problem nearly goes away, but then I can't get the lube to flow right.

I also tried lowering the pressure on the plunger, which didn't seem to do anything, until I also reached the point where the lube won't flow right.

I tried operating the lever MUCH faster- thinking the lube was "oozing" out as soon as the previously sized bullet was pushed out of the way and the new bullet entered the sizer.

I have all the holes plugged in the die except for the three holes required for a single lube groove, and I am fairly certain the lube groove of the bullet is perfectly centered when the handle is lowered all the way.

Anybody with Star Sizer expertise that can help me get rid of this problem? It's almost as if the lube pump is pushing too much lube, and not releasing it's pressure when the handle is raised.

Thanks!

[gds]

I have an older star sizer and get the same results sometimes. But I haven't been able to figure out how to stop it.

[Willbird]

You have to play with all of the variables..

Heat
Bullet position
Lube pressure

If you do not have the air cyl for lube pressure then your stuck with whatever the spring provides you.....

I heat my workplace with electricity, and I find my star is a lot nicer to get along with if I just leave the heat on 24/7...it is more stable and consistent then.

If you have a new star, do yourself a favor and order some O-rings from MSC....you will be cursing star when you go to change the lube sizer die...and you shred an O-ring every time....you can buy 100 O-rings from MSC for about what 5 cost from star.

Bill

[Depdog]

Anyone know what size the o-rings are?

Thanks
Glenn

[sagamore-one]

First thing that comes to mind is that the boolit is undersize and not sealing properly in the die allowing lube to ooze past the driving band.
How big is the unsized boolit? How much are you sizing down ?
Nose first sometimes lets this happen on some of my boolit designs. Try base first. If one drive band is wider this may help.
And lastly, when you get the pressure and heat balanced and the lube does not "flow" quite right, try warming up the boolits before sizing . Just a little warming on a cold day makes a BIG difference . This allows better flow . Cold boolits act kinda like heat sinks and cool the lube quite a bit as the lube tries to flow into the groove.
Hope this helps.

[rjbishop]

First thing that comes to mind is that the boolit is undersize and not sealing properly in the die allowing lube to ooze past the driving band.
How big is the unsized boolit? How much are you sizing down ?

Boolits are .359-.360, and I'm sizing them down to .358. I am doing these nose down, so maybe I will try base first. My fear is that since these are bevel base, I will then start getting a bit of lube on the base. I like your idea of warmer boolits- allows for somewhat cooler lube that may not ooze as readily.

Bill- when you say "MSC" for ordering o-rings- what company/person are you referring to?

Thanks for the input folks.

[Willbird]

When I say "MSC" I mean Manhattan Supply Company :-).

They have pretty much taken over the industrial supply business. I guess I thought everybody had heard of them already....they have almost everything, what they do not have Mcmaster-Carr has...either place will often deliver within 1-2 days from when you ordered.

They can be found at www.mscdirect.com.

I will measure my O-rings later today and post the size.

Bill

[Fugowii]

It sounds like you aren't positioning the boolit correctly. I have worked out a procedure for aligning the Star and boolit to be lubed that works great for me. I've done this with every mould I have and it hasn't failed me yet. See if it works for you.

How to set up your Star Sizer/Luber dies & punches in three easy steps.

First step is to measure the die. You need to know the distance from the top of the die to the middle of the lube holes.

Second step is to measure the distance from the base of the boolit to the middle of the lube groove(s). You can do this by either measuring the actual cast boolit or the mould. I’ve done it both ways.

Third step is to measure the distance that the punch casting moves to in it’s furthest travel downwards. You are actually measuring the distance from the punch casting to the die face when the punch casting bottoms out in its downward travel. This has to be done with the actual die in the Star as dies have different characteristics and measurements. For instance my Star dies measure different than my Lathesmith dies. This only has to be done once for each die. After you know this measurement, if you want to lube something else with the same die, you can get a punch setup in no time at all.

Once the die is inserted (no punch in the upper casting) place the inside arms of your calipers between the face of the die and the upper casting. It takes a little practice to get the inside arms of the calipers nice and horizontal on the face of the die while holding the body vertical as best you can. Before you do this make sure the caliper is opened up to about an inch or more and tighten the screw on the caliper that holds the slide. Don’t lock it down, just put some friction on the slide so that it won’t move on it’s own.

Now bring the punch casting down making sure you go through the entire cycle. The caliper will record the furthest travel of the casting. Do it a few times to make sure you’ve got it right.

You are almost done once you have these three measurements.

To set up the punch correctly to lube your boolit all you have to do is this: (Assuming you are lubing your boolits nose first) Take the distance you measured in the first step from the face of the die to the lube hole(s) you want to use, then subtract the distance you measured in the second step from the base of the boolit to the lube groove(s), then add the distance you measured in the third step and the result is the punch height setting.

Setting the punch height is easy. This is how I do it: I take the punch height setting I calculated and place it on my caliper and lock the slide with the slide lock nut. I insert the punch into the Star approximating the distance with the calipers. I then place a flat steel scale across the face of the die and bring down the punch on it and using the inside arms on the caliper as a measure, raise or lower the punch so that I get a ‘tight’ fit between the casting (not the nut) and the scale. Once that is obtained I place a little pressure on the arm to hold the punch in place on the metal scale and tighten the nut. Remove the scale and you are done and ready to lube.

[fredj338]

Like Fug, setup is crucial for proper lube flow. Very tiny adjustments on the top punch will get it in the right zone. Just enough heat & pressure to flow.

[454PB]

Or just plug the offending lube holes with some lead shot.

[Fixxah]

I had the same issue until I tossed the Star die and lathesmith cut me a single lube ring die. Problem solved for $40 or so. The lube leaks through the holes that are plugged with shot unless you have near zero pressure on the lube which won't fill the groove with one pass.

[.30/30 Guy]

Fixxah's post makes sense. I have not had any experience with the plugged holes leaking, but the size of shot you plug them with could make a difference. If the top and bottom rows of holes are plugged and the center holes open the top holes could be leaking.

I would suggest that you pull the die and mark the orientation of each of each row of holes on the top of the die with magic marker. Reinstall the die. Scratch a mark on a boolit and run it through the die and determine which row of holes are leaking. This should confirm or eliminate leaking holes as the problem.

[fredj338]

Fixxah's post makes sense. I have not had any experience with the plugged holes leaking, but the size of shot you plug them with could make a difference. If the top and bottom rows of holes are plugged and the center holes open the top holes could be leaking.

I would suggest that you pull the die and mark the orientation of each of each row of holes on the top of the die with magic marker. Reinstall the die. Scratch a mark on a boolit and run it through the die and determine which row of holes are leaking. This should confirm or eliminate leaking holes as the problem.

Also, if the lead shot is slightly small, the holes will leak. You need a crush fit to assure no leaks.

[jsizemore]

Your temp is a little too high. Somewhere between 5-20deg too high. Check your pressure after you have dropped the temp. I use one of those cheap Walmart meat thermometers with a probe. I stick the probe under the brass pump housing that the return spring rests against. O rings for the sizing die are Danco #14 O ring 15/16" od x 3/4" id x 3/32" #96731. Got mine at Lowes or Home Depot plumbing dept.

[Humbo]

What you could also do to assure the plugged holes are not leaking, is plugging all of them. If there's any lube on the bullet at all after running it through the die, there is a leaking problem. Like fredj338 said, you need a crush fit to assure no leaks.

[cajun shooter]

You don't need the o-rings. That is something that Magma added to the old Star and it's not needed. Your setting of the punch to base can also be wrong. When you have a Star you need to record each bullit that you size and lube. This measurement should be kept in your manual. If you are using 7 or 7 1/2 shot it does not matter as long as the hole is plugged. Once the die is in the machine it cannot leak past or blow out lube. I have been using a Star since 1971 and have never seen that happen. Don't lube base first, lube nose first as the machine is designed. Make sure that the person who is giving advise on what is wrong both owns and uses one themselves. The Star is unique but once set up it is far better than anything else. There is a learning curve and you have tom stick it out. One of the hardest is setting the heater, just because you have it does not mean that it is used all the time. Most times LBT blue is used with about 80 pounds pressure and no heat if indoors. Later David

[jsizemore]

I have one of the new stars. When I removed the sizing die (from lathesmith) to check the shot and depth of the various holes, I tore the o-ring. When I put it back together, that thing leaked lube from around the sizing die. I replaced the o-ring (the reason I know the size) and the creeping leaking lube problem went away. I probably run the pressure too high on the lube screw, but when I got the temp right on the heater (89-91deg) the lube on the boolits is just right for about 20 and then I crank down 1/2 to a full turn depending on how full the reservoir is. I'm probably doing it wrong, but it seems to be working for me.

[gl89aw]

I am not that familiar with Stars but would excessive air in the system from using hollow core lube sticks cause this problem?

[sagamore-one]

I may not know anything about Star sizers. I'll admit it.
But I have 6 that I use on a regular basis, 4 standard and two "Tall Boys", and only consumed 2800 lbs of lead in the last year or so , and have rebuilt and repaired several Stars for friends. I am in a learning curve, you see.
I may need a little more exposure th the Star sizer before I suggest that you send the boolits through base first, even though the written instructions that came with my first two Star sizers plainly state that boolits go through base first.
The instructions also clearly describe a method to calculate the depth to adjust to for each boolit / groove design. Kinda hard to argue with written instructions from the manufacturer. I still have the printed instructions.
Base first or nose first doesn't really seem to matter to the boolit. It does seem to matter to some operators.
Like I said, I may not know anything about Star sizers. Just my 2 cents worth.
Sorry for wanderind off the thread subject.

[Down South]

I tried operating the lever MUCH faster- thinking the lube was "oozing" out as soon as the previously sized bullet was pushed out of the way and the new bullet entered the sizer.
If the other two sets of holes in the die are plugged and not leaking then I think that you nailed it in your above statement.
I have the same problem if the temperature and pressure aren't set correctly. I can usually correct it after about a dozen boolits. The Star has a learning curve to it. The more experience that you have with it the better the results will be.

I had this problem last night while using one of Lathsmith’s dies with the single set of lube holes in it. I had let my temperature get too hot. My Star is mounted to a piece of ¼” aluminum plate and I use an iron for a heater. I removed the iron and cooled the base down with a few cubes of ice and problem solved.

[GLL]

The lathesmith dies with a single row of holes (four or five) sure makes living with a STAR much easier ! :) :)

Jerry

[BigCheese]

First step: align lube groove with holes in die
Maybe this old post of mine will help you filling out the grooves.

If the lube groove is not aligned with the holes in the die, you will have problems with lube where you don't want it. When properly aligned, minimum pressure and temperature are needed. I lube base first (have old Star with separate punches for different bullet noses). For a bullet that has one lube groove:

First, use a vernier to measure distance from the base of the bullet to the center of the lube groove Call this #1. Then measure the distance from the base of the die to the lube holes. (The die will have to be removed from the Star and lube removed to access the holes). Call this #2. Subtract #1 from #2. This is the amount the base of the bullet should be recessed up from the bottom of the die when the lube is forced through the holes.

Use the depth gage at the end of the vernier to span the hole at the bottom of the die. Start a bullet high; keep turning down the top punch and operating the handle (no lube pressure) until the base of the bullet is at the calculated distance above the bottom rim of the die. Once you do this, keep the dimension in a notebook so the Star can be reset when you change bullets.

To make resetting easier, after the setup is complete, you can raise the handle all the way up and use the vernier to measure the distance from the top of the die to the bottom of the punch. Next time you use this die & bullet combination, just screw the punch up and down to repeat this distance.

Hope this helps.

[rjbishop]

All,

Great series, and lots of good tips and ideas. I think I've got the problem solved, after double checking plunger depth, etc.

I built a PID controller for my Lee pot some time ago (great addition to the casting toolset, btw). My PID uses a submersible 10" stainless steel probe. It just so happens there is a nice lateral hole drilled in the Star Sizer heated base, which is a perfect place to put the probe for my PID. After experimentation, it's clear the thermostat on the Star Heater is an excellent thermostat, but I wanted to get an idea of WHAT temperature is ideal for the Magma Blue Lube. It turns out I was using too much heat- the seemingly perfect temperature is 110 degress F. When the base is running 110, the lube flows in a bit on the thick/heavy side, but I don't get any lube on the bullet ogive. I have to grunt down on the handle a bit to pump in the lube, but it gets the job done. It takes at least 6 turns of preload on the reservoir plunger to keep the lube pump happy at this temp. If the temperature goes up to say 120, it's too warm. I lubed up quite a few boolits tonight, and they are nearly perfect.

Thanks for all your input- I'm beginning to get the Star Lube Sizer figured out, and I'm loving it.

[Matt3357]

I have had the same problem with my rebuilt Star Sizer. I think I figured out what was happening with mine. As I pushed the next bullet through, lube was squirting out of the holes and being deposited on the ogive. I tried it with less pressure and all was well. BTW I was using White label 2500+ lube with a lamp to warm up the star. I also readjusted the punch and make sure everything was dead center on the lube grooves.

Thanks,
Matt

[cajun shooter]

When I made my post I was not refering to anyone that had posted before me. I was just using the old advise of be careful who you listen to. It is true that the Star will work with the base down and do a good job. The reason for the nose first is one of easy entry. A .210 will enter a .429 hole a lot easier than a .429 entering the same hole. The lube on the nose can be many things that have been covered here. The one that came to my mind is correct punch to die setting. If this is off by a few thousands it will put the lube on the nose. The Old Stars worked fine for many years with out the o-rings. A proper fitting die is one way to defeat this leakage. I purchase all my dies from Chris AKA Lathesmith. I removed by o-rings for easier die removal and have not had o9ne single problem with seepage. Magama's dies will not always pass this test. Later David