exessive hardness for water dropped boolits

[squid1230]

I cast a couple hundred boolits the other day and picked one out for testing. I cut a flat on four sides with my milling machine to make it a square boolit. I wanted to test the effects of aging on it. I used range scrap which tested at 12 bhn ( I know that is a little high, but I have a lot of cast boolit scrap in my range scrap) prior to casting. I scooped some water/ice from my pool which was mostly ice covered.

After casting it tested at 22.7bhn which I thought incredibly high. Then three days later ( today) I tested it again and it is 29.9bhn! Is this possible from simply water dropping? Did the ice in the water have something to do with it? :veryconfu

[leftiye]

Your lead obviously has some antimony in it. Heat treated or quenched wheelweights will often harden to BHN 29 (with time to "cure"). My 50/50 boolits (1/2 WW and 1/2 pure) often harden to 22 which is the nominal hardness of linotype. 1/2% tin 5% antimony 94 1/2% lead (Lawrence Magnum Shot) lead will harden to BHN 42. Stereotype is typically (no pun intended) BHN 28.

[HangFireW8]

After casting it tested at 22.7bhn which I thought incredibly high. Then three days later ( today) I tested it again and it is 29.9bhn! Is this possible from simply water dropping? Did the ice in the water have something to do with it? :veryconfu

I got the same results from water dropping an eclectic mix of old cast boolits, new cast boolits, wheel weights, some too-high-tin alloy, a nugget of monotype and a very small handful of magnum shotgun shot.

After a week, the non-frosty boolits came out around 24 to 26 BHN and the frosty ones came out around 29-30BHN.

I'm pretty sure I can reproduce it, I'm not sure if I need to.

-HF

[44man]

I cast a couple hundred boolits the other day and picked one out for testing. I cut a flat on four sides with my milling machine to make it a square boolit. I wanted to test the effects of aging on it. I used range scrap which tested at 12 bhn ( I know that is a little high, but I have a lot of cast boolit scrap in my range scrap) prior to casting. I scooped some water/ice from my pool which was mostly ice covered.

After casting it tested at 22.7bhn which I thought incredibly high. Then three days later ( today) I tested it again and it is 29.9bhn! Is this possible from simply water dropping? Did the ice in the water have something to do with it? :veryconfu
What do you mean about 12 BHN being high?
My best accuracy is always around 25 BHN. If I use fast powder I try to get to 28-30.
If they fit your gun, go for it.

[Bret4207]

It takes time for a boolit to reach full hardness. I figure 3 weeks more or less. You can make the 40 Bhn if you want, but if they don't fit they'll still lead like crazy when pushed.

[sqlbullet]

I have seen 32 from water dropped bullets. The lead was 750°, and the sprues were cut as soon as I could without getting smear. Some tearing was accepted.

Point being, the bullets were just barely below the 'slump' temp when they hit the water. My alloy is 96-1-3 lead-tin-antimony.

[squid1230]

What do you mean about 12 BHN being high?
My best accuracy is always around 25 BHN. If I use fast powder I try to get to 28-30.
If they fit your gun, go for it.

What I meant was, for range scrap ( jacketed bullets) and the odd cast boolit I understood 12bhn to be on the high side. I thought typical range scrap is around 8 bhn.

With bhn's like that what the heck did I buy all that lino and mono for?

I just measured some ingots I made from range scrap yesterday and they measured 15 bhn which I figure is Lyman#2 more or less. I'll have to go and get more.

I shoot three calibers: 9mm, 40s&w, and .308. What hardness do you guys recommend for those calibers. The .308 I push to around 2200 - 2300fps, the .40 to 950-1000fps.

[44man]

What I meant was, for range scrap ( jacketed bullets) and the odd cast boolit I understood 12bhn to be on the high side. I thought typical range scrap is around 8 bhn.

With bhn's like that what the heck did I buy all that lino and mono for?

I just measured some ingots I made from range scrap yesterday and they measured 15 bhn which I figure is Lyman#2 more or less. I'll have to go and get more.

I shoot three calibers: 9mm, 40s&w, and .308. What hardness do you guys recommend for those calibers. The .308 I push to around 2200 - 2300fps, the .40 to 950-1000fps.
I am not familiar with range scrap but I wish I was. Our club has gravel and rocks in the berms and the only way to get any lead is to melt the gravel!

[imashooter2]

What I meant was, for range scrap ( jacketed bullets) and the odd cast boolit I understood 12bhn to be on the high side. I thought typical range scrap is around 8 bhn.

With bhn's like that what the heck did I buy all that lino and mono for?

I just measured some ingots I made from range scrap yesterday and they measured 15 bhn which I figure is Lyman#2 more or less. I'll have to go and get more.

I shoot three calibers: 9mm, 40s&w, and .308. What hardness do you guys recommend for those calibers. The .308 I push to around 2200 - 2300fps, the .40 to 950-1000fps.

I've been shooting nothing but range scrap from a couple of different indoor ranges for the last few years. My scrap measures 12 - 14bhn air cooled and 20-24bhn water dropped. This is for samples pulled from many different buckets collected over a 5 year span. Now, I do take some steps to homogenize my take. I pour 2 buckets at a time into a wheelbarrow and load the pot from it. I smelt in 500 or so pound sessions and I jumble the ingots before piling them away. But still, the conventional wisdom of range scrap being almost pure lead soft doesn't match my experience at all.

[Mk42gunner]

I don't want to stepon any toes, but my guess is that the "soft range scrap" comes from back when most ranges, particularly indoor, got mostly .22's and swaged .38's for bullseye practice.

I would think that range lead became harder when commercially cast bullets became readily available in the 90's. Some of that stuff was harder than a Chief's heart at liberty call.

Times change, loads change, shooting habits change, and you still hear people say "close one eye when aiming."

Just my thoughts,

Robert

[sqlbullet]

They say close one eye to try to get people to shoot better. Most guys I see at public ranges close both eyes every time the boom stick goes bang :-)

[truckmsl]

My experience with outdoors range lead these days is that it is about 50/50 jacketed and cast, and when mixed with wheel weights and water dropped the result is a harder boolit than plain water dropped clip on wheel weights. Most folks are probably using commercial hard cast when they shoot lead at this range. I water drop for convenience and have no leading problems with either .38, 357, 40, or 7.62x39.

[Marlin Junky]

I cast a couple hundred boolits the other day and picked one out for testing. I cut a flat on four sides with my milling machine to make it a square boolit. I wanted to test the effects of aging on it. I used range scrap which tested at 12 bhn ( I know that is a little high, but I have a lot of cast boolit scrap in my range scrap) prior to casting. I scooped some water/ice from my pool which was mostly ice covered.

After casting it tested at 22.7bhn which I thought incredibly high. Then three days later ( today) I tested it again and it is 29.9bhn! Is this possible from simply water dropping? Did the ice in the water have something to do with it? :veryconfu

The two major variables are temperature differential and % antimony. It not difficult to achieve BHN 29-30 if the boolit hits the water at a high enough temp and there's enough antimony present. I do a 500F HT of 50/50 which is soft lead (like plumber's lead or stick-on WW metal) combined with clip-on WW metal, quenched into ice water and the boolits usually come out over BHN 29 in about a week.

MJ

[squid1230]

The two major variables are temperature differential and % antimony. It not difficult to achieve BHN 29-30 if the boolit hits the water at a high enough temp and there's enough antimony present. I do a 500F HT of 50/50 which is soft lead (like plumber's lead or stick-on WW metal) combined with clip-on WW metal, quenched into ice water and the boolits usually come out over BHN 29 in about a week.

MJ

That's what I suspected. The boolits were very hot, such that some of them dented other boolits in the bottom of the ice water pail. The water, of course, was extremely cold. I'll keep this differential in mind when I cast for rifle.

[leadman]

Speaking about dented bullets, I found a way to minimize this.

I cut foam in about 1 to 1 1/2" squares and let it soak for a couple days in water so it sinks to the bottom of the pail.

I then use an old towel and put a slit in it and place it over the top of the bucket so it is barely in the water. This stops most of the splash and slows the fall of the bullets.

[1Shirt]

Over the past three or four years I have tested a number of range lead blts that had been water quenched. I never had any that tested less than 15bh, some as high as 22bh. For paper, I like hard, very hard, in excess of 22 or higher, but as someone said, must be right size.
1Shirt!:coffeecom