H-110 for Rifles ? ?

[hylander]

So I have some H-110 left over from my old 44 Mag.
Can this be used for loading rifle cartridges for Cast shooting.
Say;
1903A3 30-06
Enfield .303
Marlin 30-30

[madsenshooter]

Burn rate is in the neighborhood of SR 4759, IMR & H4227. However, I've no experience with it, best wait for someone who does.

[Ole]

H110 works best with a full case, full pressure, and a heavy crimp.

Were I in your shoes, I would trade it to someone that owns a magnum pistol for a better suited powder for your application.

[Ben]

hylander

Listen to Ole, he is offering good advice. Reducing charges of ball powder in rifle cases is generally considered a real " NO - NO."

[1Shirt]

H-110 is an excellent powder for Hornet and K hornet, but as far as I know, rifle wise, that is the extent of rifle usefullness. Always use a good manual for ref, and I suggest Lyman!
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[hylander]

OKey Dokey, just thought I would check.
I'll see if I can trade it off for some Red Dot or 2400

[JeffinNZ]

So I have some H-110 left over from my old 44 Mag.
Can this be used for loading rifle cartridges for Cast shooting.
Say;
1903A3 30-06
Enfield .303
Marlin 30-30

Short answer is yes you can use it in rifles. I have seen some remarkably good groups using it.

HOWEVER, I have also seen a man put his head in a lion's mouth and I am not going to that either.

Get yourself some 2400 or 4198.

[JIMinPHX]

I seem to recall being told that H-110 works well in .410 shotgun shells too.

[Dutchman]

H-110 is most excellent in the .30 Carbine. I believe that is the original application for H-110.

I loaded lots of it in .44 magnum and I think .357 magnum.

I found out here, this forum, that H-110 is not suitable for reduced cast bullet loads in bottleneck cartridges. Dang it, I have two pounds!

Dutch

[damron g]

I burned pounds of it and W296 in the 1990's in a 308 Winchester.I only loaded 18-19g with 150-190g bullets and it shot better than any other load.That particular load is in the one and only RCBS cast bullet manual from the 1980's and i think they have some data for the 30-30(i used it in that one as well,but cant recall the load)
Although i never heard of a carefull loader having a problem with the load Ed Harris had Winchester test 296 with his supplied cast bullets a long time ago and the pressure irregularities were not to their liking.The California boys in the early CBA matches were the ones who pioneered the load i believe.

I agree with Jeff though why take a chance.

George

[35 Whelen]

So I have some H-110 left over from my old 44 Mag.
Can this be used for loading rifle cartridges for Cast shooting.
Say;
1903A3 30-06
Enfield .303
Marlin 30-30

The RCBS Cast Bullet Manual Number 1 says "Yes".

In the 30-30 with: 175 gr. bullet Start 11.0 grs. for 1223 fps; Max13.0 grs. for 1435 fps
187 gr. bullet Start 13.0 grs. for 1478 fps; Max15.0 grs. for 1633 fps

In the 308 with:

175 gr. bullet Start 15.0 grs. for 1440 fps; Max17.0 grs. for 1569 fps

If it'll work in the 308, I can't imagine why it wouldn't work in the '06 or 303.

On a side note, I've recently been working with AA#7 in my K-31. I bought 8 lbs. for $85...way too cheap too pass up, though at the time I had no idea what AA#7 was good for. I learned it's ideal for the 9mm of which I shoot very, very little. It can be used in my 357, but again, I don't shoot pistols much.
I recently received an NOE mould designed for the K-31 and since I have so much AA#7, decided to try it. I first found its place on the burn rate chart and decided to start with 14.0 grs. Long story short, I've fired several groups with it and it shoots very well. 2" 10-shot groups @ 100 yds. with open sights are pretty much the norm. This about how the bullet and rifle group with 13.0 grs. of Red Dot.
You never know til you try!
35W

[Dutchman]

The RCBS Cast Bullet Manual Number 1 says "Yes".

In the 30-30 with: 175 gr. bullet Start 11.0 grs. for 1223 fps; Max13.0 grs. for 1435 fps
187 gr. bullet Start 13.0 grs. for 1478 fps; Max15.0 grs. for 1633 fps

In the 308 with:

175 gr. bullet Start 15.0 grs. for 1440 fps; Max17.0 grs. for 1569 fps

If it'll work in the 308, I can't imagine why it wouldn't work in the '06 or 303.

I am more than surprised. This is the first published reference I've seen indicating H110 for cast bullet bottleneck cartridges. Maybe I need to get out more, ya'think?

I see the loading range is quite narrow. Might be a good idea to write Hodgdon and see what they say. I'd like a 2nd opinion :wink:.

Dutch

[chboats]

New manufacture 296 and H110 are the same powder according to the Hogdon data. They don't say it in those words but if you look and the data for example 44mag 240 gr bullet max loads H110 24gr 1522 fps at 36200 CUP and 296 24 gr 1522 fps at 36200 CUP. If this does not say they are the same I don't what does. They also put in a warning not to reduce the max load more than 3% due to inconsistency of velocity at the lower pressure. This is from the manufacure. If you had a load that would devlope around 36000CUP it may work great but I don't many shooters that could produce that load.

As everyone else recommended trade it for another powder and you will be a lot happier.

Carl

[damron g]

Might be a good idea to write Hodgdon and see what they say. I'd like a 2nd opinion :wink:.

Dutch[/QUOTE]

I also used AA#9 with similar results in the 308,but had to go to 20.0 to keep the same accuracy.In a 30 BR with 190g bullets i worked from 13.0 up to 19.0 with W296 but the velocites got squirelly after 17.0 g and accuracy went to pot.

It would be interesting if a current powder mfg'r would run a test for us.

George

[35 Whelen]

New manufacture 296 and H110 are the same powder according to the Hogdon data. They don't say it in those words but if you look and the data for example 44mag 240 gr bullet max loads H110 24gr 1522 fps at 36200 CUP and 296 24 gr 1522 fps at 36200 CUP. If this does not say they are the same I don't what does. They also put in a warning not to reduce the max load more than 3% due to inconsistency of velocity at the lower pressure. This is from the manufacure. If you had a load that would devlope around 36000CUP it may work great but I don't many shooters that could produce that load.

As everyone else recommended trade it for another powder and you will be a lot happier.

Carl

I think you're taking their warning out of context. Their warning applies to their load data which is for straight wall handgun cases such as 357, 41 and 44 Magnums. If the RCBS manual says it works, that's good enough for me.
35W

[damron g]

[QUOTE= If the RCBS manual says it works, that's good enough for me.
35W[/QUOTE]

I agree 100%.I have used it for over 15 years and haven’t had a mishap, but people get so freaked out about reduced ball powder loads i give up and say use something else.

I had an old-timer(no offence to all of you over 45<G>) at the range last year "give me a little lesson" while I was sharing my load data for 30-06 lead loads with 2400 and Blue Dot. He rushed right over, interrupted me and nearly screamed “pistol powders in rifle cases are unsafe due to the secondary explosion effect” I very politely(sort of) told him to walk away and mind his own business. Needless to say we are no longer on speaking terms <G>In my neck of the woods if you own a singleshot, have a beard,and dress like a cowboy it automatically makes you the range expert.

George

[JIMinPHX]

I had an old-timer(no offence to all of you over 45<G>) at the range last year "give me a little lesson" while I was sharing my load data for 30-06 lead loads with 2400 and Blue Dot. He rushed right over, interrupted me and nearly screamed “pistol powders in rifle cases are unsafe due to the secondary explosion effect” I very politely(sort of) told him to walk away and mind his own business. Needless to say we are no longer on speaking terms <G>In my neck of the woods if you own a singleshot, have a beard,and dress like a cowboy it automatically makes you the range expert.

George

From the reading that I have done, the secondary explosion effect happens when slow powders are underloaded. That is the whole reason that fast pistol powders are recommended for lite loads. That's just what I have read.

What I have observed for myself, is that if you start to load Blue Dot down below the published book data, after a little while, the velocity starts to go up as the powder charge weight goes down. That scares me. I don't use BD for lite loads. I use Bullseye, 231 or Unique for that. They seem to give more stable & predictable results at the low end.

Please pardon the cowboy hat, bolo tie & 6-guns in my avatar. Please also pardon the fact that I have a beard & the fact that I often shoot a Handi-Rifle. I hope that you don't think I resemble the person described in your remark.

[damron g]

Please pardon the cowboy hat, bolo tie & 6-guns in my avatar. Please also pardon the fact that I have a beard & the fact that I often shoot a Handi-Rifle. I hope that you don't think I resemble the person described in your remark.[/QUOTE]

I figured I described about 1/2 the cast bullet shooters with that one<G>I wear a western hat and drive an old 1960's Ford truck to the range so i also fit that that stereotype.I am surprised i havent got any bites the "over 45" crack.

I use Blue Dot in the 30-06 because i got 7# at a garage sale for $10.It has worked pretty well with 12-14g and 150-200g bullets.I havnt found any shotgun or pistol powders that didnt work resonably well in the various 30 cal. "military" cases.

George

[Dutchman]

I have no information on the data you refer to and won't recommend it. I
suggest you contact RCBS and see if they still recommend this data.

Dave Campbell
Hodgdon Powder Company
Ballistician/Customer Service
913-362-9455 Ext.117
dcampbell@hodgdon.com

This morning I forwarded him the data shown in this thread. I already know how this is going to turn out. Hodgdon is going to dis-own any recommendation for H-110 in these applications.

Dutch

[35 Whelen]

This morning I forwarded him the data shown in this thread. I already know how this is going to turn out. Hodgdon is going to dis-own any recommendation for H-110 in these applications.

Dutch

Yep...I think we all know what he's going to say. We live in a world of lawsuits and his default position is going to be "cover my posterior".
You could also contact Alliant about "The Load" of 13.0 grs. Red Dot for most any .30 caliber rifle cartridge and I bet they'll tell you the same thing since it's not referenced in their loading guide. Ditto for 12.0 grs. of Unique and 16.0 grs. of AL2400...both very common loads.
I don't know why Hodgdon would dis-own RCBS any more than they (or Alliant) would dis-own Lyman for publishing loads in their Cast Bullet Handbook that these powder manufacturers haven't tried. Relax.
35W

[swheeler]

I tried H110 in the 223 with cast bullets about 5 years ago, Extreme spreads of nearly 200 fps and a hangfire stopped the testing. I got the idea from data published in some gun magazine, I still have it taped over a page except they used Win 296 and I had part of 8 pounder h110 left and used it.
If I can find it-BIG QUESTION MARK?????? I have read in one of the many shooting books I have(it is in a hard back IIRC) the author is reporting NOT to use 110/296 in rifles for cast. He goes on to say that cast bullet BR shooters were using it in the 308 back in the 80's and had an UNCOMMON number of ringed chambers, they suspected- he suspected 110/296 was the culprit.
For me I won't be trying it again.

[mag44uk]

I have been using W296 in 7.62 x 39 and 32/40. Both loads out of manuals.
No problems and very uniform velocities in both.
HTH
Tony

[Bert2368]

I had very good luck with 45gr .224 jacketed bullets and 10gr of W296 in the .22 Hornet- I'm going to try it with #225415 as soon as I get them cast.

[JeffinNZ]

I had very good luck with 45gr .224 jacketed bullets and 10gr of W296 in the .22 Hornet- I'm going to try it with #225415 as soon as I get them cast.

As indeed you should. My CZ hornet loved W296. HOWEVER 110/296 is the right powder for that case and 10gr is 90% + density.