How robust is the old Ideal no.45 ?

[JBMauser]

I just bought one with the box, some dies and even the ratchet handle with Lyman stamped on it. Nice looking old sizer but it looks plain frail next to my SAECOs. Does this need soft lube? Of couse the stuff in it is concrete and the two old original boxes of lyman brown lube in the box look petrified! These may be for ebay and a collector! I don't want to break anything. sometimes some force and effort is exerted with my SAECOs, everything on this little sizer looks thin and frail compared to them and modern Lyman and RCBS sizers. My home made SAECO green lube is thinner than the RCBS Stick lubes I use in my second SAECO sizer. Just how robust is this sizer? JB

[trooperdan]

Short answer: not very! I generally don't use the really hard lubes, those that require a heater, with the old 45 Lyman.

[Shepherd2]

There probably weren't any hard lubes when the 45 was designed. The 45 is a good lubersizer just don't use it for things it wasn't meant for. I use soft lube in my 45 and put the hard stuff in my 450.

[grumpy one]

It depends on your expectations I guess. One issue is the tiny Lyman O-rings on the sizer dies. If you crank up much lube pressure, the O ring blows out at the top-front. This doesn't happen if you use RCBS sizer dies, which have bigger O rings in deeper grooves. However the machine wasn't intended for high lube pressure anyway; even with 50/50 beeswax/alox you will need to warm it slightly in temperatures below the upper 60s Fahrenheit. With harder lube you'll need more heat.

So far as sizing force is concerned, it will become obvious when you try it. I've been using pure foundry-type bullets (over 30 BHN air cooled) in mine with no trouble at all, but I'm only sizing them down .001-.002, and I only use 30 calibre. If you want to size hard 45 calibre bullets down by .003, or something exotic like that, I'd suggest you forget it. The device is actually rather rigid and reasonably strong, but it isn't supposed to be a bullet swaging press.

[JBMauser]

O rings? Are they mounted in the press? These dies seem to have a shallow groove that accepts the allen screw to secure the die in place. I Know the newer lyman and RCBS dies are different from these old stepped versions. I will boil it out tommorow and see what I have in there. thanks, JB

[grumpy one]

O rings? Are they mounted in the press? These dies seem to have a shallow groove that accepts the allen screw to secure the die in place. I Know the newer lyman and RCBS dies are different from these old stepped versions. I will boil it out tommorow and see what I have in there. thanks, JB

The relatively modern sizing dies (both RCBS and Lyman) have an O ring groove right near the top of the die. On the Lyman, it is cut into the middle of the parallel section immediately above the locating groove. The locating groove has not been moved; it just has an O ring recess turned into the parallel section immediately above it.

I must retract my assertion that the Lyman O ring is smaller than the RCBS one - they both have a rubber diameter of .073", so they are the same O ring. I don't know why I've had blow-outs with the Lyman dies and not with the RCBS ones, unless it's because the RCBS locating groove is lower, thus making a wider parallel sealing surface above the groove.

The Lyman dies have 14 holes to let the lube into the inside of the die, while the RCBS ones have only 4. Which is better depends on the type of bullet you are sizing; for all of my bullets the RCBS arrangement is better, but if you were sizing Loverins you'd be better off with the Lyman set-up.

So, the O ring groove is in the die, not the press, and the ring is there to keep lube from oozing or squirting out around the top of the die.

Geoff

[Bucks Owin]

There probably weren't any hard lubes when the 45 was designed. The 45 is a good lubersizer just don't use it for things it wasn't meant for. I use soft lube in my 45 and put the hard stuff in my 450.

I think that's good advice.

There's been a 45 for sale at a gunshop I frequent for a long time at $50 and I've often been tempted to buy it as an "object d'art" for the reloading room because they look so doggone cool to me! (A little "french lingo" there...) :D

I imagine they could be considered a collector's item...

Dennis

(Love that real wood on the handle. That's class!) :-D

[NVcurmudgeon]

O rings? Are they mounted in the press? These dies seem to have a shallow groove that accepts the allen screw to secure the die in place. I Know the newer lyman and RCBS dies are different from these old stepped versions. I will boil it out tommorow and see what I have in there. thanks, JB


JB, being old enough to remember when "old stepped versions" were the only game in town, I highly recommend replacing them. They tend to scrape one side off the boolit if there is any misalignment. Guess you could save them for reboring to a larger size.

[JBMauser]

If I could rebore them I would still have the issue of allignment to consider. I guess I need to push a few pills and see how things line up. I have a Unimat lathe that I am learning to use. I guess I can open up the die and make a new push plug but I don't know how to taper the top other than with emmery paper. Have any of you opened up a sizing die? the press came with a .452 which is correct for 45ACP I believe, and I would like a .454 for .45LC.

Curmudgeon, are you advising replacing the old dies with new styles from RCBS or Lyman and using the same old no. 45 press or replacing that as well?

[imashooter2]

I have 3 Lyman 45's. They have considerably less leverage than the newer models do. All 3 of mine have the brass skirt to seal the piston and pressurize the lube reservoir. I'm told these skirts leak more than the modern O ring designs, but the leakage has not been an issue for me. I use one with hard commercial lube (Ballisticast) and an "iron on a plate" heater with no problems.

ETA: The new dies fit the old press just fine.

[JerryW]

I use a Ideal #1 for lite duty, a #45 for medium work and a pair of # 450's for the tuff stuff. they all have a place. JerryW

[NVcurmudgeon]

JB, I used a friend's 45 back in the early sixties. It worked OK, but didn't have the leverage of the 450. Lyman's modern dies are much better than their old ones. I understand the new dies have a tapered entry, so don't scrape the boolits. Some on this board have posted that RCBS dies are rougher than Lyman's, but I don't know. My dies are all modern Lyman and do an excellent job, even making some of my oval castings quite round. I consider Lyman's improved dies and NRA alox lube to be the two big breakthroughs that made casting practical for most of us.