2400 - 4227 - 4759

[Char-Gar]

The three captioned powders are tradtional favorites for cast bullet shooting. Similiar charge weights will produce similiar velocities. Note... I said smililar not exact..I know there is some difference in burning rates.

What are the pro and con vis-a-vi each other for use in, lets say, the 30-06 case for cast bullet use.

[NuJudge]

2400 goes through a powder measure easier than 4759, but it does not fluff up as much.

I've rarely noticed position sensitivity with 2400, and I don't believe I've ever noticed it with 4759. The only use I have seen position sensitivity with 2400 is in longer cases such as the .30-'06.

I've never used 4227.

Christopher Dingell

[Bent Ramrod]

4759 frequently leaves a trail of half-burned powder down the rifle barrel and a granule or two can wind up in the chamber before the next cartridge is inserted. This causes difficult chambering or dents in the fired shell. Even with this incomplete burning, the loads are very accurate. You will probably get a goodly amount of unburned 4759 in your .30-06 cast bullet loads.

I was able to load up my .30 Remington with cast bullets and enough 4759 to generate enough pressure to completely burn the powder. This was the only occasion where a recommended load level of 4759 actually burned completely, and I was full of hope before I looked into the spotting scope. Alas, the accuracy was terrible. Despite all this, I generally reach for the 4759 for cast bullet loads more often than the 4227 or 2400.

The only other characteristics that might be downsides to someone are that it doesn't work too well in pistols and a pound can only holds 8 oz. On the other hand, it bulks up better in the shell than the more dense powders, an advantage for a shell the size of a .30-06.

There is some tendency to this incomplete burning with 4227 in pistol cartridges, but I've never seen it in rifle loads. I use 4227 in .32-40 and .32-35. 2400 generally burns completely. I have all three powders and use them, but most often the 2400 and usually the 4227 go into my .22 Hornet behind jacketed bullets.

[boogerred]

ive never used 4759 but i use a lot of 2400 in 357 mag with heavy bullets. ive tried 4227 with the same bullets from the same gun and didnt like it. like BR said it leaves a lot unburned. i plan one day to load some in 32 mag and 30-30.

[Lloyd Smale]

dont know about rifles but in the 44 mag 45 colt h4227 is probably the most consistantly accurate powder ive found. It leaves some unburned residue but that doesnt bother me when its punching tight little groups.

[Newtire]

A guy gave me a can of IMR4227 and it left the unburned kernels you spoke of. This was in an M-1 carbine. However, the H-4227 burns real clean in carbine loads that will work the action. It is one of my favorite powders for the carbine.
Can't recall much about 4759 except for it doesn't meter in my powder measures and it is Wonderful stuff with cast bullets. If you've never tried RX-7 (rifle stuff), it is great for cast bullets too.

[35remington]

I understand one of the 4227's is going away, in that Hodgdon has taken over the IMR 4227 line and will discontinue H4227 since it does not sell as well as IMR's version.

What I heard was Hodgdon will have IMR's version produced by the same Australian outfit that produces their other extruded powders. If you like H4227, buy now and stock up.

I wonder if the new IMR product will be temperature insensitive like the rest of the Hodgdon line? And if doing so will change the characteristics and accuracy of the powder in some way that will no longer make it directly comparable to the original IMR 4227?

Looks like I may have to possibly rework some loads, since most of my 4227 loads use the Hodgdon stuff. I also use IMR 4227, but for whatever reason I haven't compared it directly to H4227 in the same cartridge and gun.

I also like the good metering characteristics of 2400 and 4227, but I've tended to use 2400 most often.

[felix]

The odds are very good that any new powder, version or otherwise, will be newly formulated. Hopefully, in the situation of a new VERSION, they would keep the burn chemicals, and the mechanical properties, the same. The chemist would need to consider the applications the powder is currently being used, in terms of ambient characteristics, with the case, bore, using a nominal boolit. Now that we have the internet, I would think that taking user surveys would really help the formulator. ... felix

[Char-Gar]

According to folks (John Taffin) who have the inside track at Hodgon, H4227 is not going away. It will be labled IMR4227 and IMR4227 is going away. The data will not change which illustrates how similiar the two version are.

So, there is no need to stock up unless your have a strong preference for the original IMR version.

[35remington]

Yeah, Chargar, I heard that version also, which is sorta why I said "one" of the 4227's is going away. I guess I hope the Taffin version is right, but my pessimistic side says something will change, and what I relied on in the past will not stay the same as it was.

Here's hoping that's not so, and that Mr. Taffin is right. One of my favorite loads uses H4227, dacron filler, and the RCBS Cowboy bullet in .25-20. I'm going to lay by a few more pounds, just in case. Belts 'n suspenders, ya know.

[357maximum]

My smith told me, the current IMR version will be gone, the name will stay, but will actually be H4227, and it will carry the extreme markings. He generally knows his shtuff. So it will now be IMR 4227 extreme powder, or exactly the same as H4227 has been for several years now.

[1Shirt]

I load all three, with a preference for 2400, then 4759, then 4227 in that order. As mentioned, 2400 sure does meter theough the measure better than the other two, and for me at least burns cleaner. Have found that the new 2400 burns a bit faster than the older stuff of a few years back. Shoot 2400 in just about everything that I shoot cast in. Once in awhile have trouble getting 4759, so, buy it in bulk when I do get the chance. Good luck!
1Shirt:coffee:

[Buckshot]

..............I've always had pretty good luck with all 3 powders. I do use dacron with them all and 2400 is the fastest powder I'll use a filler over. 4227 was once the Schuetzen shooters favorite, or one of the top 2 so you know it's a good well mannered, predictable powder.

I also like SR4759 and had used it more sparingly in past years because I was afraid that DuPont, and then IMR would get a wild hair and discontinue it, AGAIN! WHen it became available as a surplus powder a couple years ago I bought 12 lbs hoping it would be at least a LITTLE like real SR4759, and not like the surplus IMR4198 was compared to canister IMR4198.

By the time I'd checked it out and saved up some dinero to get 24 lbs, they'd sold it out. However, a couple years later it came out again so I bought a case of it hoping it was the same, and it was. Not too often does a surplus number with that burn rate and well known pedigree become available.

Another good thing about SR4759 is that in big fat old pistol cases (45 Colt, anyone :-) ) it's great under real heavy slugs unless you're trying to expand the cylinders or stretch the frame out some. When I sized down a bunch of Lee 458-340F's to .452" and loaded them in my Vaquero SR4759 did a FINE job! Accuracy was very good, no pressure and velocity was certainly useable.

BTW, check out Grumpy One's post here, "Finally a Good Day at The Range".

................Buckshot

[Marlin Junky]

I ran a 10 round string of Lyman 311041 at 181+ grains (dressed) through the '06 yesterday using 22.5 grains of Bartlett Mil-Surp 4759 (old stuff) and Fed 210 primers and got good stats;

mean: 1885
spread: 28
std. dev.: 8.5

however, my first five shot group was definitely better than my second. No metal fouling but the dry cleaning patch came out the muzzle pretty black. Couldn't find any unburned kernels in the barrel, though. I am working on bedding issues with this rifle. Any input on which of the three powders (2400, 4759 or 4227) burn the cleanest?

MJ

[JeffinNZ]

Both H4227 and IMR4227 are AR2205 out of ADI these days. Check the Hodgdon MSDS.

I use H4227 for all my reduced .303 Brit loads with rip roaring success. It is clean and consistent.

[btroj]

I can only say that 4759 is a bear to use in my measure. 2400 flows like no other. I have used very little 4227 of either flavor.
2400 is hands down my go to powder for cast in any rifle cartridge. It just flat works in anything I have tried it in. I use no filler and velocities are constant and accuracy good.

[Jon K]

For the '06 & Boolits....my choice is 4759.

Jon

[45 2.1]

Charles, you FORGOT Unique.......... Unique outclasses all those mentioned for accuracy and less position sensitivity.

[oldhickory]

When I started casting for .30/06 I ordered my mold from Gault's Gun Shop. The old man was in business as a gunsmith since his discharge from WWII and always gave sound advice in all aspects of shooting, reloading, casting, etc. When I ask him for a good powder to use with my new Lyman 311332 he set a can of IMR4227 on the counter and said, "That's what you need, about 22 to 28 grains will do."

Gib was right, it's the first powder I try in any of my .30s, and usually the one that gives the best accuracy. It's not all I use, but it's still my standard for just shooti'n in everything except my M1 and .45/70 Springfield. It just plain works for me.

I haven't used SR4759 in years because it's not a stock powder where I buy, and 2400 is reserved for my .44 revolvers...Just habbit.

[chboats]

Charger - A powder that I think should be added to your list is Accurate 5744. I have used a lot of 4759 and 2400 and still do. 5744 is a little slower but is cleaner burning. It will leave unburned powder but if you push a dry patch through the barrel after 10 or 20 rounds it will be a lot cleaner. This alows me to shoot more with out cleaning of any kind.
Carl

[midnight]

I bought 2lbs of 4759 at a gun show mainly cuz it was real cheap and was in those cool Dupont cans with the real little caps. Never used it til I got a 310 Cadet. Not too much loading data out there but in the old 1965 Cartridges of the World Fred listed 10gr of 4759 beneath a 120gr bullet. Could only fit 8gr in the case so I went with that. It gives 1200fps which is exactly what I wanted. I have never changed it or tried anything else.

Bob

[mpmarty]

In 30cal rifle stuff I've gotten away from the Unique/2400 stuff and have been having really good luck with BLC(2). I'm going to start experimenting with H335 and Varget soon also.

[sh00ter787]

I use 2400 in 7.62x39 and get good results, hoping to pop some in 7.62x54r soon - pretty much same case capacity as 30-06 so should get roughly same results?

[Char-Gar]

I hear good things about unique and 5744 for cast bullet loads in rifles. I have no doubt what hear is true. I tend to stick to the above mentioned 3 powders because I have decades of experience with them, and they hold no secrets. I am kind of sot in my ways in stuff like this.

I have never felt unburned kernels of powder to be an issue. The only thing that matters is how close the bullets land to each other.

[chboats]

I have never felt unburned kernels of powder to be an issue. The only thing that matters is how close the bullets land to each other.

I guess that's the bottom line.

[AZ-Stew]

In 30cal rifle stuff I've gotten away from the Unique/2400 stuff and have been having really good luck with BLC(2). I'm going to start experimenting with H335 and Varget soon also.

Marty,

How much BLC(2) are you using, and with which boolits?

Thanks,

Stew

[leadman]

I use 5744, 4759, and 2400 in my rifles. 5744 will go away when the can is empty, they charge more for it than the other for no apparrent reason and doesn't do anything the others won't do.

I shot 55 to 60 rounds in military matches with a 1903a3, 311041 and 19grs of 4759 with no issues at all. 2400 seems to be just a little position sensitive at the same charge, bullet, in the 1903a3, but still a good powder.
2400 works excellent in what it was originally intended for, the 22 Hornet, both cast and jacketed. There are powders that make higher velocity now though.

[Green Frog]

My go-to powder for .32-40 breech seated is 4759 in original or modern barrels. The best .32-40 fixed ammo I ever shot was loaded with 4227 by another shooter. I used a bunch of 2400 when I was actively shooting .44 mags. I would not feel too good about using any of these in my .32 and .38 revolvers, though... prefer Unique for those.

Froggie

[sundog]

IMR 4227. Hands down. With 180-200 gr boolits. 20-21 grains gives you circa 1650. I have been using this for more than 10 years in military bolt matches, and it is a consistent money maker with a good 03A3. My replacement choice is VV N120. I have a shooting buddy who uses 2400 with 311291 and does well.

As mentioned above 4759 is a great powder for 32-40 single shot.

My best result with 5744 has been with the RCBS 30-180-SP in .308.

[buck1]

IMR 4227 is very cool burning. It does seem to work well in the 3006 in my limited testing.

[Artful]

I've used 2400 and 4227 - of the two I've used lots more 2400
for cast with heavy bullets I like 5744 - used in 45-70 to 30-30 - doesn't do as well in pistol cases but I need to try it in my new 357 Max T/C barrel that might have enough powder room for running it with a 180-250 grain bullet.

[Marlin Junky]

IMR 4227. Hands down. With 180-200 gr boolits. 20-21 grains gives you circa 1650.

How 'bout an additional 200-300 fps with 170-ish grain boolits outa the '06? Should one step up to 4198 for this requirement?

MJ

[grouch]

Of the three, my rifles have preferred 2400. I find H110 pretty much just as good up to 30-06. Best accuracy for H110 in 30-06 in my rifles has been around 16 to 18gr with bullets from 150 to 225gr.
Grouch