Article on used Browning & Winchester BPCRs

[texasmac]

Guys,

If you or someone you know is considering purchasing a use Browning or Winchester 1885 BPCR you may be interested in an article at the link below.

http://www.texas-mac.com/Purchasing_Used_Browning_or_Winchester_BPCR.html

Regards,
Wayne

[ph4570]

I know all too well about misrepresentation of Browning BPCRs -- especially the cracked stock scenario and the miscellaneous dings. Gee, it must have happened in shipping. Good luck with the shipper. I will never buy another used firearm unless I inspect it in person. I do not give a rats posterior what the seller says about condition.

[hickstick_10]

with a new breed of especially over confident and ignorant garage machinists/gunsmiths (there are rare exceptions who do good work), I have stopped buying used guns all together. Its only a matter of time before one of these basket cases ends up with me if I did continue to buy used.

[texasmac]

In the article, I mentioned being involved with several cracked stocks. Most of these were during shipping. I’ve received and shipped well over a hundred Browning and Winchester BPCRs and experienced six cracked stocks and one cracked forearm prior to figuring out the best shipping method. All the stocks were cracked at the thin wrist area below the receiver tang. Four were in original Browning shipping boxes, inside larger corrugated cartons. One was in a well-padded rifle cases inside a corrugated carton. The damages clearly were a direct result of rough handling by the shipping companies. But Browning deserves some of the blame. The factory rifle box design is not adequate to fully protect the rifle while being tossed around by the typical shipping company warehouse and/or delivery truck employees.

Imagine the outcome when dropping or tipping over a box with one of these long heavy barrel rifles inside. When it slams flat on a concrete floor or the flat bed of a delivery truck, that heavy barrel tends to crush the surrounding padding and shifts significantly more than the much lighter and much wider wood stock. Something has to give so the stock flexes at the wrist, the weakest part. And in many of these cases the outer box shows no sign of damage. One of the boxed rifles I did received was slammed down or stuck so hard the front sight penetrated though a layer of foam and two layers of cardboard. Needless to say, both the sight and stock had to be replaced. I've even had them damaged when shipping inside a hard plastic padded rifle case inside a padded outer shipping box.

Now dealing with the shipping company is another matter all together. If the outer shipping box is not damaged you're screwed. If you are successful in convincing them they caused the damage, it can take 2 to 4 months to get a refund.

If you are the recipient of a damaged rifle, be sure to keep all the shipping material and take good clear close up photos of the damage to the firearm and the shipping box. And make sure your dealer keeps the shipping box & packing material. If the shipper is unable to evaluate the condition of the box and packing they will never consider a refund.

Wayne

[ph4570]

"prior to figuring out the best shipping method"

....and the best shipping method is....?

[texasmac]

US Postal Service Insured Registered Mail, which typically costs around $50 to ship a $1600 rifle from one USA continental location to another.

Wayne

[ph4570]

US Postal Service Insured Registered Mail, which typically costs around $50 to ship a $1600 rifle from one USA continental location to another.

Wayne

Ah, and that prevents broken stocks -- now I understand. :veryconfu

[texasmac]

Let's see now, and I'll go over it very slow. Shipper's---rough---handling---is---major---cause---of---broken---stocks. Use---shipping---method---(Registered mail)---to---mitigate---rough---handling. Duh?

So what’s the reason for the sarcasm?

Wayne

[ph4570]

It is more skepticism than sarcasm that registered mail prevents rough handling -- it's the same trucks and people doing the transport. The USPS claims of registered mail are "tight security", insurance and delivery verification with no mention of handling with kid gloves.

In fact the unit I received with a broken stock was shipped by the method you describe. Clearly the best way to prevent furniture breakage is to ship it seperate from the heavy barrel/action assembly.

So, what's with the "bla-de-bla...... Duh?"

Oh well, guess my views are just different than those of the merchant.

[doubs43]

With regards to dishonest sellers who deliberately misrepresent the condition of a firearm, one could easily write a book. One of the biggest frauds is the use of "mint" to describe a gun that would have trouble passing muster as NRA "good". (Don't even get me started on anything described as "minty" which I hate with a passion and refuse to buy regardless. If I wanted to taste the gun, I'd put peanut butter on it!)

Anyone entertaining the notion of buying from an on-line seller other than a distributor of new guns should insist on many, many photographs that are close-up and SHARP! Fuzzy, out of focus pictures can hide a lot of defects.

Also consider paying by postal MO as fraudulent business conducted by mail can be investigated by postal authorities. Just the threat of such an investigation may get the desired results from a dishonest seller.

There's no question that it's a mine field out there for the unwary buyer and it's always best - if at all possible - to inspect the arm first hand. At the very least insist on an inspection period of at least three days with a right of return and get it in writing!

You may also insist on using an escrow agent who won't release the money to the seller until the buyer agrees that the gun is everything the seller says it is. It will cost a bit more but it's good insurance. A seller who dishonestly describes a gun's condition will obviously never agree to holding the money in escrow. The other side of the coin is an honest seller who fears a dishonest buyer if an escrow agent is used. Sometimes the buyer will replace good parts with bad and then return the gun as having been received that way. Honesty is a two way street.

[ph4570]

With regards to dishonest sellers who deliberately misrepresent the condition of a firearm, one could easily write a book. One of the biggest frauds is the use of "mint" to describe a gun that would have trouble passing muster as NRA "good". (Don't even get me started on anything described as "minty" which I hate with a passion and refuse to buy regardless. If I wanted to taste the gun, I'd put peanut butter on it!)

Anyone entertaining the notion of buying from an on-line seller other than a distributor of new guns should insist on many, many photographs that are close-up and SHARP! Fuzzy, out of focus pictures can hide a lot of defects.

Also consider paying by postal MO as fraudulent business conducted by mail can be investigated by postal authorities. Just the threat of such an investigation may get the desired results from a dishonest seller.

There's no question that it's a mine field out there for the unwary buyer and it's always best - if at all possible - to inspect the arm first hand. At the very least insist on an inspection period of at least three days with a right of return and get it in writing!

You may also insist on using an escrow agent who won't release the money to the seller until the buyer agrees that the gun is everything the seller says it is. It will cost a bit more but it's good insurance. A seller who dishonestly describes a gun's condition will obviously never agree to holding the money in escrow. The other side of the coin is an honest seller who fears a dishonest buyer if an escrow agent is used. Sometimes the buyer will replace good parts with bad and then return the gun as having been received that way. Honesty is a two way street.

Very good advice. I should have done some of it with my BPCR purchase. I was (never again) too trusting.

[texasmac]

ph4570,

You said, "So, what's with the "bla-de-bla...... Duh?""

Based on you subsequent response it was me overreacting to your initial comment and my impression that you were being sarcastic. For that you have my apology.

To explain a little further why I use Registered mail. After having several rifles damaged by both FedEx and UPS, and also USPS regular priority mail, I've shipped approximately 50 of the Browning & Winchester heavy rifles using USPS Registered mail and have not had a problem. A well-known and respected gunsmith that specializes in engraving very expensive firearms turned me on to Registered mail as the only "safe" way to ship firearms. As you mentioned, they may use the same trucks and people to transport registered mail items as they do regular, but for whatever reasons registered mail has worked well for me.

I also agree that the best insurance is to pull the furniture and pack it separately with the rest of the firearm. The problem is I have made several attempts to convince customers to allow me to do so & none would agree.

Wayne