300gr Hollow Point in 45 ACP?

[dk17hmr]

I was cleaning out my gun locker today and found some bullets I use in my muzzle loader. They are a 300gr .45 caliber hollow point made my Rainer called the Harvester, I thought to myself "self I bet you could size those bullets in your Lee Sizer and load them in your 1911". So I went and measured them and sure enough .452 dont even need to size them.

Question:

Anyone shoot a 300gr bullet out of a 45 ACP 1911 design?
I am wondering if the heavier slug going of course much slower would penetrate more then say a 200gr.

Kinda wondering if they would feed in the gun. Maybe 4.0 of bullseye would be ok to start at? Maybe if I could get them going 700fps they would expand and cause serious damage on say a deer.

Any thoughts on this?
DK

[Bullshop]

I think your gonna run into a problem. Because the inside of the case is tappered when you get to the point in the case where the base of the boolit will be with an oal that will fit the mag a loaded round will be bulged at that point where the boolit base is and will not chamber. Try seating one to an oal that fits the mag and you will see what I mean. It dont take much resistance to keep the slide from going into full battery. You may get them to shoot fine but I think there will be feed / chambering problems.
Now if you had a set up that you could seat the boolit out for a longer oal like on my enfield bolt action conversion should be no problem at all as long as the throat will allow. My rifles will allow a longer oal than a 1911 and will handle nicely pressures that are double of what a 1911 should be loaded to.
Just my thoughts.
BIC/BS

[Swagerman]

Not a good idea in a 1911, but might be able to use some in a S&W revolver for that caliber.

I don't think you are going get any good practical results with this big a bullet in a .45 acp brass casing.

Even a 250 grain bullet will greatly limit the velocity for lack of room for powder.

Using big amounts of small granual fast powders will be like tap dancing in a mine field.

Load some .45 Colt ammo with those 300 grainners. :-D


Jim

[lar45]

There is an article in the April 2006 Handloader about shooting heavy bullets in the 45 acp. They list penetration on normal and heavy bullets.
230 FMJ @ 860 fps went 18 in.
300 @ 770 fps went 26 in.
special bullets with rebated boat tail base from Northwest Custom Projectile(PO Box 0127, Butte MT 59701)
FWIW

[Swagerman]

Lar, was those .45 acp shot in a 1911 pistol?

Jim

[Four Fingers of Death]

Yeah they were. I bought a copy thinking I'd get some info about reloading the Blackhawks. It was all about 1911s. Intersting read, but don't ask me to quote it because I've just moved home and its in a box somewhere. I'll get back to you in a year or so, :-) Mick.

[lar45]

Yes 1911 pistols

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=8080
This is a link to the molds and maintenance section for heavy 45 acp stuff.
I measured a bunch of cases and started seating flat base bullets deaper into the case to see how far you could go and still have it chamber.(which meant how far can the base of the bullet go into the case)

anyway, I took a few 230 BD acps and seated them deap in increments until I started getting a bulge, then measured it to get an idea of what base deapth would still funtion in a 45 acp.
I have a Star PD, AMT Longslide hardballer and M-98 16" barrel to test in.
I tried some WW, R-P and TZZ 87 and 93 cases.
I thought the TZZ Israeli military cases would be the worst as they have the least case capacity. They ended up being the best for deap seating a bullet.
The 230 BD acp is .6" long with a square base. The cases are .9" ish
The chamber on my Star PD is about .478" ID, the M-98 is .477", I didn't take the AMT down to measure it.

So with the TZZ 87 cases I can have the base of the bullet about .510" in the case and still have it chamber.
Next thought, existing 45 bullet molds with a gas check. Now I can just measure to the bottom of the bottom drive band?
I have the Lee C452-300 RF that is .763" long and .65" to the bottom of the drive band. When seated to 1.225 OAL it would just fit in the magazine. Almost to the top crimp groove. Next I'll have to see how it shoots without a gascheck?
I also have a MM 340gn 90% nose that is .833" long and .730" to the bottom drive band. When seated to 1.19" it will fit the magazine and feed fine.

Now I'll have to spend some time with quickload and order a heavier recoil spring for the AMT. I don't think I'll even try pushing the Star PD with the aluminum frame and all.

Now a question about slide recoil momentum. Should we use momentum or energy? I'm thinking momentum.
For every action there is a reaction...
factory 45 acp = 230@855 = 196650(grain*feet/second) GFS (what a strange unit)
Other loads available look like 185*1140 = 210900 GFS
230*875 = 201250 GFS, Looks like similar numbers.
so M1*V1 = M2*V2 (almost) to take the units out of it. M1*V1/M2 = V2 ?
Should V2(velocity) be a safe slide velocity to not damage the gun? If so, then...
230*875/310 = 649 fps. Can we safely shoot a 310 grain bullet at 649 fps out of a stock 45 acp and not damage the gun?(assumeing the pressure is safe)

Now we put in heavier recoil springs, like for the 45-08 with a 200 SWC at 1300 (260000 GFS)with a 25(22?) lb recoil spring. 200*1300/310 = 839 fps?

A 310 grain bullet at almost factory velocity sounds pretty good to me. (With only the change of the recoil spring, and maybe some recoil buffers).

Thoughts? The TZZ military brass is cheap and plentiful and seems to hold up to hot loads very well(my oops with a 230 @ 1300 and 700x and the brass was perfect)