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View Full Version : Catshooter's .357 Group Buy is here!



Catshooter
06-30-2006, 07:11 PM
Here we go for you .357 fans.

This will be a Lee six hole mould, no handles.

We will shoot for an as cast diameter of as close to .361 as we can get (sizing down is so much easier that sizing up!).

Weight will be about 170 - 175 grains, and Elmer'd be proud.

Price is $58 plus a buck for our resident mad booolit designer for a total of $59.

All the usual rules apply, PM me for addy if needed.



Cat

45 2.1
06-30-2006, 09:16 PM
The 358429 Group Buy boolit for you to look at:
Nose to crimp = 0.357".

old goat
07-01-2006, 04:38 AM
...Sent you a PM.

...old goat

Wayne Dobbs
07-01-2006, 05:54 AM
PM inbound...

TCLouis
07-01-2006, 07:02 AM
and check leaving today.

And this is the last mold I can think of that I will ever want.

I bet this is the first mold to go thru 100 orders.

GLL
07-01-2006, 09:58 AM
Cat:

I will take two (2). Check will go out after the 4th !

Looks very nice ! :) :)

Jerry

PatMarlin
07-01-2006, 10:24 AM
Oh Boy... gotta keep track of this one.. :Fire:

G50-70
07-01-2006, 11:17 AM
This is a must have. PM sent.

Gary

Rangerone
07-01-2006, 01:19 PM
Do we have any history on this configurition, meaning will it function through the Marlin 1894C?

Thank you

Cayoot
07-01-2006, 03:01 PM
:drinks:
This looks perfect Cat! Great job you guys!

I'll be sending a check after Independence Day.

Dutch4122
07-02-2006, 08:01 AM
Check will be going in the mail this week for 1 mould.

kodiak1
07-03-2006, 12:51 AM
Pm sent want one bad.
Ken

David R
07-03-2006, 05:32 AM
I'm in , my 38 loves this boolit!

David

Cayoot
07-03-2006, 08:28 AM
I want in on this one, but the guy who is running your .41 buy is only going to hold it open until he gets 25 orders then it shuts down. So I guess it is a race to see who can come up with the extra money first to get in on that one, the rest of us are out of luck....so I'm trying to decide where to direct my efforts first.

Ahh screw it...I don't like someone "laying down the law" like that, so I'm in on this and I'm not even going to try to get in on that .41 gb.....

I guess I have a chip on my shoulder when I feel someone is trying to "push me around"

My check will be in the mail next week, and if this is still open at the end of the month (after I get paid) I'll be sending in another check for a second of these beauties.

dragonrider
07-03-2006, 08:58 AM
I am interested in this one also, however, will it feed in my Marlin 1894????? It won't feed anything above 1.600". Does anyone know the max COAL that will feed in this rifle????

Rangerone
07-03-2006, 10:12 AM
I am interested in this one also, however, will it feed in my Marlin 1894????? It won't feed anything above 1.600". Does anyone know the max COAL that will feed in this rifle????


My question exactly... anyone?

Bodydoc447
07-03-2006, 11:38 AM
Don't know about the GB bullet per se, but the 47 edition of Lyman Reloading Manual lists and OAL of 1.553" with #358429. I don't think there is too much difference between that and the Lyman.


BUT, looking at the other entries the RN 358311 has an OAL of 1.590" and the Thompson GC SWC lists an OAL of 1.590" as well. Both of those to MY eye have shorter crimp groove to tip lengths which makes the listed OAL for a cartridge to have been crimped over the shoulder rather than in the crimp groove. I bet when 45 2.1 gets online he'll be able to give you the crimp groove to meplat length to add onto the case length for a more accurate OAL with the GB bullet.

Doc

steveb
07-03-2006, 12:21 PM
I wonder how this will feed in the Rossi 92's??? Anyone???

dragonrider
07-03-2006, 01:05 PM
"crimp groove to meplat length "
That would be very helpful. Thanks

gregg
07-03-2006, 02:03 PM
I thought we were going for a true Keith 358429??

Ok I see we had a vote.. Whats the advantage to the
358429 GB. We could of save time just going with the
GB instead of the 358429 then. That said so to get a
reply to help me understand. Not starting a war just a
disscustion.


the following posts are what I and Catshooter have been working on for a long time. thanks everybody for their patience. The "original" samples are as old as we can find and some are a composite of several versions of the same mold number. You will note that the "Keith" version and the "GB" Group Buy version don't quite look the same. You judge for yourself which you would want. The GB versions are drawn from good releaseing, good shooting samples that a lot of people have. So, on with the show.

The 358429:
Attached Thumbnails

45 2.1
07-03-2006, 03:57 PM
I thought we were going for a true Keith 358429??

Ok I see we had a vote.. Whats the advantage to the
358429 GB. We could of save time just going with the
GB instead of the 358429 then. That said so to get a
reply to help me understand. Not starting a war just a
disscustion.


the following posts are what I and Catshooter have been working on for a long time. thanks everybody for their patience. The "original" samples are as old as we can find and some are a composite of several versions of the same mold number. You will note that the "Keith" version and the "GB" Group Buy version don't quite look the same. You judge for yourself which you would want. The GB versions are drawn from good releaseing, good shooting samples that a lot of people have. So, on with the show.

The 358429:
Attached Thumbnails

Pray tell, just what is a true Keith in this number? As my post said, i'd measured many different "Old" versions of this boolit, everyone of them was different. Do "You" have an original mold that is verifable to Keith so we can get his actual dimensions? We tried most all the names in the business to find one and used the oldest we had that shot good. Notice that some of those versions didn't shoot good. So we used the best we had access to, and this determination used up a lot of time and materials also. So you'll got the best version we had, and that was the GB version.

gregg
07-03-2006, 05:28 PM
Pray tell, just what is a true Keith in this number?

Good point. I been condition to think the bullet I have seen the last 25 years
is it. The one you pointed out in your post as the Keith. I know the 45 GB
I like better than the one you posted as the Keith 454424. Hay 45 2.1
sometimes I need a little point clearing before I put my money down. Just
eases my mind. Thank You for taking the time to help. Like I said not trying
to start a war.

Catshooter
07-03-2006, 07:26 PM
Cayoot,

I'm running this one just like all the others I've done, that is to say I keep it open for at least 30 days, and then issue a last call thread. Then wait about two weeks and then close the whole thing.

I don't want to run these in any kind of real hurry, I mean isn't the point to let as many people in as possible?

I don't know that I would worry to much about the .41 buy closing real fast, I think getting to 25 will take some time. I could be wrong though.

To the rest of you kids who want to know the crimp to meplat length, be a bit patient. 45 2.1 is having both computer and ISP problems right now. I'm sure he'll post the length soon, just give him a chance.


Cat

Cayoot
07-03-2006, 11:21 PM
Cat,

Yeah, I believe that I read into the .41 GB all wrong. I had the wrong impression about it.

Fortunately, Sean seems to have set me straight.

Big sigh of relief here cuz I really wanted to get in on the whole series!

Thanks

45 2.1
07-05-2006, 07:41 AM
To the rest of you kids who want to know the crimp to meplat length, be a bit patient. 45 2.1 is having both computer and ISP problems right now. I'm sure he'll post the length soon, just give him a chance.Cat

See Post #2 for the nose to crimp length. Remember, this is a Keith, it is the same in length and critical dimensions as is the original Keith which is too long to crimp in the groove for some 357 mags.

garandsrus
07-05-2006, 08:00 AM
45 2.1,

Sorry, I don't understand your comment... This bullet can be crimped in the crimp groove for .357 revolvers, right? Are you saying that it won't work in lever action rifles?

John

45 2.1
07-05-2006, 08:31 AM
45 2.1,

Sorry, I don't understand your comment... This bullet can be crimped in the crimp groove for .357 revolvers, right? Are you saying that it won't work in lever action rifles?

John

Keith designed this boolit for 38 specials. The OAL crimped in the groove is over max. by the book and will chamber in some long cylinder revolvers and won't in some others. You will have to see if it works in yours. Add 0.357" to the max. case length to get OAL, then check your own firearm to see if it fits.

AKtinman
07-05-2006, 09:53 AM
Looks to me like near perfection for my 38/44 Outdoorsman.

This design embodies the "spirit" of Keith, and I am sure it will be accurate.

I appreciate all the efforts in bringing this to reality. Thank you!

Regards

Ron

felix
07-05-2006, 09:54 AM
Bigger and older S&W revolters in 357 mag have heavy duty 38 special cylinders for the most part. Their model 19 has a true 357 length cylinder, but only the strength of a 38 special. ... felix

ialefty2
07-05-2006, 11:42 AM
Catshooter

Count me in on this one. [.357 keith]

pm sent

poneal@midsouth.rr.com

garandsrus
07-05-2006, 12:09 PM
45 2.1,

Thanks for the explanation... I checked my S&W 686 and it looks like the bullet will fit with about .040 to spare.

John

Poohgyrr
07-05-2006, 02:11 PM
:drinks:

Awesome, I'm in. Broke, but in somehow....


EDITED:


:Fire:
:mrgreen:

I have a ton of .38 brass, and it's (money, not brass) in the mail.............

0802
07-05-2006, 04:23 PM
OK -- I follow for the most part the discussion regarding this bullet being designed for 38 Special and working in some 357s. Can anyone tell me if this bullet (in 357 Mag) will work in a Python? Literally, the movers are moving me out of the house as I type this and I don't have access to my gear to figure it out for myself.

Josh

Dr. A
07-05-2006, 05:54 PM
Checks in the mail.:)

DEVERS454
07-05-2006, 06:06 PM
I will be poor by the time any of these molds actually arrive. <hehe>

PM sent...

DEVERS454
07-05-2006, 06:43 PM
FYI: As far as max OAL for revolvers, here is what I am measuring for mine.

My S&W Model 28 (and 19) with recessed chambers will allow for a MAX OAL of 1.635", but, in reality, I can only go as large as 1.62" before heavy loads force the bullets to jump just enough to bind. So, no Keith bullets for this gun. [as far as 357 magnum cases.... 38s are what I shoot in my older Smiths anyhow]

My Taurus Model 608 will actually chamber upto 1.74" long cartridges all day long w/o a problem. (please, no Taurus bashing flame war... )

My Ruger GP-100 will chamber a 1.66" oal cartridge, but, I prefer to keep it to 1.65" (or shorter) if at all possible. I tend to push my Rugers alot and have seen bullet creep from time to time. Rugers luve wadcutters.

My Rossi 357 levergun will handle 1.65" oal bullets w/o a problem. (never tried anything longer) But, I avoid using semi-wadcutter style bullets in my rifle.

NEWER S&W model 686 and such have no problem. They have the same size cylinders (length wise) as do Rugers.

Catshooter
07-05-2006, 07:37 PM
I'm pretty sure of the following:

Python - no in .357 brass

686 - fits in mine easy!

Ruger SA - ditto 686

Smith 19/66 - I think so, though I don't have one to hand.

Smith 27/28 - no in .357 brass

Marlin - no clue.

0802
07-06-2006, 08:19 AM
Thanks for the info -- I'm probably going to buy a mold no matter what, its just a matter of whether I have to buy a new gun to go with it!

targetshootr
07-06-2006, 05:38 PM
Pardon if I missed it, but does this mold have a beveled lube band like the 45?

Catshooter
07-06-2006, 09:36 PM
Yes targeshootr, the lube band is beveled, just a little bit, just enough to assist in boolit release.

Catshooter
07-06-2006, 09:41 PM
Received the first check today.

Boy, am I getting the PMs

Do you suppose we could hit the magic 100?


91741
30736
46147
48415
48092
38001
43445
34653
32127 x two
67401
37803
46637
95815
62801-5457
TOC 2J0
76234
98409 X 2
27405
57317
83539



Cat

Greg
07-09-2006, 08:30 AM
CatShooter-

PM on the way, put me down for one

threerivers
07-09-2006, 09:06 AM
Catshooter I want one of these. Thank you for doing this. PM on the way.

targetshootr
07-09-2006, 12:53 PM
I'm going to send a check for this one too but if the 44 K is not far away, maybe I could kill two birdies with one stamp.

dragonrider
07-09-2006, 02:04 PM
Well the OAL will be too long for my 1894, in 357 cases anyway, but I think I will get one anyway, what the hell I'll do something with it, it's only money right?

TCLouis
07-09-2006, 08:30 PM
will have to hark back to Elmer K's load in 38 Spl brass and drive on.

I know I will play with that load (reduced due to todays faster 2400) even though I have guns that should chamber it. I have lots O 38 spl brass to play with less 357 Mag.

Murphy
07-09-2006, 09:46 PM
Catshooter,

IF...we reach the magical '100' mark on orders, what will the price per mold drop down to then?

And yes...I'm in on this one *SMILE*.

Murphy

Catshooter
07-09-2006, 09:53 PM
Murphy,

I think the cost per mould at or above the 100 mark drops to $41.

Has a GB here gone to 100?

gregg
07-11-2006, 07:45 PM
To long for my Mod 28 but who says you cannot crimp 357 brass over the
front band on the bullet. Don't care how it looks. Just how it shoots.
Hay my 100 th post.

cherok9878
07-14-2006, 10:36 AM
1894C COAL info furnished from MARLIN is 1.590 inches.

Several of us have wondered if the boolit in this group buy will function in the 1894C. Max/Min case length furnished by RCBS with my press which is a 77 year designation.

RCBS pistol case trim length

357 Max = 1.290 +.357 = 1.647

Min = 1.280 +.357 = 1.637


38 Max = 1.155 +.357 = 1.512

Min = 1.150 +.357 = 1.507


These computations are furnished for general info only. Please do your own math to see if you come up with the same results that I have.

I think this boolit will function in the 1894C with the use of .38 special cases

45 2.1
07-14-2006, 11:39 AM
1894C COAL info furnished from MARLIN is 1.590 inches.

Several of us have wondered if the boolit in this group buy will function in the 1894C. Max/Min case length furnished by RCBS with my press which is a 77 year designation.

RCBS pistol case trim length

357 Max = 1.290 +.357 = 1.647

Min = 1.280 +.357 = 1.637


38 Max = 1.155 +.357 = 1.512

Min = 1.150 +.357 = 1.507


These computations are furnished for general info only. Please do your own math to see if you come up with the same results that I have.

I think this boolit will function in the 1894C with the use of .38 special cases

It will function in the 1894s with 38 special cases. To use 357 mag cases, you will need to seat to 1.59" or a little less and taper crimp on the front band or seat to crimp over the end of the front band. This would apply to short cylinders also.

steveb
07-14-2006, 12:29 PM
What about the Rossi 92's???? Anyone??

AZ-Stew
07-14-2006, 05:15 PM
All,

I have used this bullet for about 30 years, cast from a Lyman mould. I have no experience with it in rifles, but I have used it (with excellent results) in several revolvers. Here's what I've found:

S&W

M28, M27: Too long seated to the crimp groove in full-length 357 brass. You have two good choices and one that defeats one of the design features of the bullet. Choice #1: Trim cases shorter, crimp in the groove. The drawback to this is that case capacity will be reduced, requiring max loads to be reduced to avoid excessive pressures. Compared to choice #2, you will get a better hold on the bullet with the crimp, reducing the possibility of bullet jump on recoil, but I've used the choice #2 method for many years with no problems.
Choice #2: Crimp into the side of the front driving band using full-length brass. This is probably best done with taper crimp dies, but can be done using roll crimp dies. With roll crimp dies, crimping should probably be done as a separate step. Drawback: Again, case capacity is reduced. See above.
Choice #3: Crimp over (forward of) front driving band. Drawbacks: Case capacity is reduced even further. More load reduction required (but, hey, you're saving powder). In addition, you defeat one of the design features of this bullet. The front driving band is intended to sit within the chamber throat in revolvers to aid in centering the round in the chamber for more accuracy. Seating it fully inside the case prevents you from taking advantage of this feature.

M-19, M-66, M-586, M-686: This bullet can be seated normally and crimped in the crimp groove in full-length brass in these revolvers. (Works great, too!)

Ruger Security Six: This bullet can be seated normally and crimped in the crimp groove in full-length brass in these revolvers.

I have no experience with any other revolvers or the TC Contender, but I wanted to clarify what some of the others have said.

I don't know whether I'll be able to get in on this one, but I'll certainly get in on the .41 mould in a couple of weeks.

Regards,

Stew

mick27
07-15-2006, 05:43 PM
hey cat,

have been waiting for this one! i'm in !!!

mick27

i'm sending a pm for info.. thanks

Catshooter
07-17-2006, 09:32 PM
Here's the latest list.

91741
30736
46147
48415
48092
38001
43445
34653
32127 x two
67401
37803
46637
95815
62801-5457
TOC 2J0
76234
91106 X 2
27405
57317
83539
37179
80020
44099



Cat

Poohgyrr
07-17-2006, 10:29 PM
:drinks:
This should be fun. The K frame won't be a problem, and they usually get "3/4 power" loads in them anyway.. And I have wanted to use the old Skeeter load in Special brass for a long, long time in our old family N frame. The .357 Lever is always fun to shoot.

:Fire:

PatMarlin
07-18-2006, 03:10 AM
95815... I know who that is... but I'm not tellin'. That's my old zip code.. :mrgreen:

ktw
07-18-2006, 09:39 AM
Do you have any thoughts as to how long this buy is going to be open?

Would like to participate, but there are a lot of buys pending. Have been joining the 'must have' ones. Trying to decide between the 'like to have' ones. Only so much bullet casting budget to spread around.

-ktw

PatMarlin
07-18-2006, 11:07 AM
If there were ever a "must have" group buy, it's Cat's Keith series. Based on a lot of hard work and research.

Anyone who shoots revolvers, and doesn't get in on one will be surely disappointed.
I don't think you'll be able to get a Keith boolit mold so close to the originals intended performance, without Elmer running the group buy from the grave.

I think he would welcome the improvements ..:mrgreen:

Poohgyrr
07-18-2006, 04:06 PM
95815... I know who that is... but I'm not tellin'. That's my old zip code.. :mrgreen:

:-D Glad you escaped! We haven't made it out yet, but are working on it. When we do, I'll have to borrow my buddy's one ton diesel just for all the extra lead I'm collecting......

:Fire:

GLL
07-21-2006, 02:37 PM
Cat:

Did my check ever arrive for the 2 moulds ?

Jerry

Bear4570
07-22-2006, 05:34 PM
Check went out today, thanks for honchoing this.
gotta get the whole group, sorry now that I did not get in on the .32 Keith buy.

Catshooter
07-22-2006, 07:59 PM
GLL,

Yep, yer dough is here and so noted on the list. It helps if I use your zip code instead of mine.


Cat

seagiant
07-23-2006, 03:45 AM
OK,Cat I'm warming up the old Saeco!!! Time sure flys!!!





So...How's your digestion now?
Angel Eyes

GLL
07-23-2006, 10:15 AM
Cat:

Thank you !

As long as you do not ship my moulds to yourself all is well ! :) :)

I look forward to getting this one as well as the 429421 and 452423 versions !

Thanks again for all of your efforts on this.

Jerry

knothead
07-24-2006, 10:50 PM
My check went out today, thanks for honchoin the buy.

I hope you guys wait a week or so on the 44...that one will finish the guns i own:drinks:

Murphy
07-24-2006, 10:54 PM
Catshooter,

Have a count on how many molds this buy is up to?

It would be great to see it bust that magical 100 number.

Murphy

Bucks Owin
07-25-2006, 09:22 AM
Oh Boy... gotta keep track of this one.. :Fire:

Hope you get one so I can borrow it! (I'm too broke right now....:( )

Dennis

Catshooter
07-25-2006, 09:21 PM
Right now we are at 25 payed for with about five more committed.


Cat

Catshooter
07-27-2006, 09:42 PM
Latest checks.

91741
30736
46147
48415
48092
38001
43445
34653
32127 x two
67401
37803
46637
95815
62801-5457
TOC 2J0
76234
91106 X 2
27405
57317
83539
37179
80020
44099
54213
74012
08534
74429

This puts us at 32.


Cat

KYCaster
07-27-2006, 10:55 PM
Cat: I don't see 42701 on your list. You should have it by now, it went out on 7-18.


Jerry

Catshooter
07-27-2006, 11:11 PM
Jerry, you will now.


Cat

KYCaster
07-28-2006, 12:42 AM
Thank you.

Wayne Dobbs
07-29-2006, 11:54 AM
Mine is on the way to you....ZIP 75002

GLL
07-30-2006, 11:05 AM
Cat:

Now that this .357 buy is well underway how about posting drawings of the 429421 to start generating interest in the next Catshooter-Keith GB ? :) :)

Not that I am an impatient man ! ;) ;)

Jerry

Catshooter
07-30-2006, 12:48 PM
Jerry,

I know what you mean. That's the only bad thing about these GBs, is they take so much time.

I tell ya though, I'm thinkin' about waitin' a bit 'cause I think that there's alot of people who aren't online due the time of year it is. Also we've got just a pile of GBs going on. Most people don't have the kind of money you do, dude!


Cat

GLL
07-30-2006, 01:01 PM
"Most people don't have the kind of money you do, dude !"

Cat:

I am a retired ex-school teacher. I just eat a lot of "Top-Ramen", collect aluminum cans, and save my pennies for new moulds ! ;) ;)

I look forward to the next GB ! :) Thanks for all of the work.

Jerry

LIMPINGJ
07-31-2006, 10:12 PM
Payment went in the mail this evening.
Jim

BorderBrewer
08-01-2006, 03:07 PM
Hi Cat,
Check sent this morning from 91911.
Thanks,
BorderBrewer

Catshooter
08-20-2006, 05:16 PM
The final waiting week is over, all the checks are in (I'm assuming). I'll take our money to the bank on Monday and mail the order to Lee on Wednesday. Here we go!


Cat

PatMarlin
08-20-2006, 05:29 PM
I NEED more time cat.. :shock:

PLEASE... The pain, The PAIN... :groner:

BorderBrewer
08-20-2006, 09:08 PM
Cat,
Did my check arrive from 91911? I sent it out 8-1-06
Thanks,
BorderBrewer

old goat
08-20-2006, 11:35 PM
...BorderBrewer

...Check the.357 Last Call! thread for the current list.

...old goat

BorderBrewer
08-21-2006, 02:04 AM
old goat,
Thanks,
I'm in on five of these GB's right now and tend to get them mixed up at times.
BorderBrewer

Catshooter
08-21-2006, 11:14 PM
Yeh BB, you're good to go.

And by the way, don't get too proud, I'm in seven group buys right now.

Now watch, Buckshot or somebody will chime in with 14 or something!

Pat, what are you talking about?


Cat

PatMarlin
08-22-2006, 12:38 AM
Nothin'... what?.. :mrgreen:

45 2.1
08-22-2006, 07:02 AM
And by the way, don't get too proud, I'm in seven group buys right now.
Now watch, Buckshot or somebody will chime in with 14 or something!
Cat

HaHa, yeah guess who. 12 just on the first page.

Catshooter
08-22-2006, 09:54 PM
45 2.1!! You're sick man, sick . . . oh wait, what am I sayin'? Never mind.


Cat

Buckshot
08-23-2006, 01:57 AM
..............I have no idea. I've forgotten, but I do think there are 3 I can remember :-).

...............Buckshot

45 2.1
08-23-2006, 06:49 AM
..............I have no idea. I've forgotten, but I do think there are 3 I can remember :-).

...............Buckshot

Is that all? I've got 30 6 cavity boxes that I can see by my casting pot let alone the 9 new ones in the house that I haven't cast with yet plus some put away. Cat, i've been at this for a long time, don't worry, you'll catch up some day.

targetshootr
08-23-2006, 07:22 PM
Wow. Anybody got a 6 cav 45 250 gr RN single lube groove they can sell me till these are done? The mailman ain't cooperatin and these guns need feedin'.

Cayoot
10-02-2006, 03:02 PM
I'm really wishing that I had ordered two of these....can I throw my hat in the circle for any extras that you may have?

Also...any word on them?:mrgreen:

Thanks!

David R
10-02-2006, 05:53 PM
I might be screwy, but I can't find the list and I know I sent a money order.

Am I there? 14103.

Thanks
David

GLL
10-02-2006, 07:41 PM
David:

You are on the last list posted 8-12-06 as "14103" !

Jerry

Catshooter
10-02-2006, 09:29 PM
Cayoot,

You are now #3 on the list of people who want into the extras, if any. I kinda expect there will be, but no promises as yet.

No word, of course, but I do sorta expect 'em this month.


Cat

David R
10-03-2006, 06:24 AM
Thank you GLL

David

Cayoot
10-03-2006, 06:37 AM
Thank you for the update Cat!

Poohgyrr
10-16-2006, 12:47 AM
:drinks:

:Fire: