How many times for 44 mag brass?

[Bulltipper]

I have a 329PD S&W airweight and am pushing Mihec's new 503 boolit thru it with 24.5gr of H110. it is a great load and is shooting accuratly for me but I am only using brand new starline brass at this point. I have had a new cylinder put on this revolver (Compliments of S&W) as I had some previously fired brass let go and split during testing with 700x powder loads and etched some burns on the inside of the cylinder. I have since stopped using shotgun powder in magnum handguns and used brass too, but I am wondering how many times can a guy safely reload full house loads with out risking etching the cylinder thru split cases. The 329PD is particularly critical to this as the cylinder is titanium. I am thinking maybe 2 times for full house and maybe a third or fourth time as a light (for the 44 mag) plinking load then retirement? Any help would be appreciated.

[BoolitBill]

I have 44 special brass that I know have been loaded 10 times and I am not worried about going 11. I think the sizing process wears out the brass more than the firing of the cases. Just inspect your brass very well before reloading it and if there are any signs of cracks starting to form then retire the brass. P.S.---Most of my brass cracks form at the mouth of the case so I look very carefully there, especially after flaring the case.

[JesterGrin_1]

I have to agree with Bill I have had no problems even loaded 10 times or more. So really now I do not keep track. I just inspect the case well and if I find something I do not like i put them aside as for a later date I may trim them to .44 Sp spec and still get more use out of them. :)

[anachronism]

Long case splits? You aren't using Brasso on your cases are you?

[Dale53]

I have no experience with Titanium cylinders. However, I have several .44 Magnums and have run tens of thousands of full loads through them without issue. The revolvers are S&W Model 29, S&W 629, Ruger Red Hawk, Ruger Super Black Hawk (first issue). I have a new Ruger 50th Anniversary .44 Magnum but have used it little, as yet.

I toss the brass when it mouth cracks. I have had no issues with brass split full length.

YMMV
Dale53

[Bulltipper]

OK, I appreciate the feedback. The cases that split on me were split in the middle and the crack was always longitudinal to the case. These cses were inspected before firing and showed no signs of any problems. I am wondering if the titanium cylinder is streching on the instant of firing or if the brass was just work hardened and waiting to fail. I have 45 acp brass that i have no idea how many times it was fired, but it is a low pressure round like the 44 S&W special, or the 38 spl and doesn't see nearly the pressure that the 44 mag sees. The brand new brass is acting perfectly...

[Edubya]

The maximum load that I have shot a 245-255gr boolit in my 629 with H-110 is 24gr. I've never had a case split,10 reloads or so.
Their site list:
240 GR. NOS JHP Hodgdon H110 .429" 1.600" 23.0 1413 25,200 CUP 24.0 1522 36,200 CUP
EW

[Rico1950]

Bulltipper,
Your 329PD may have oversize chambers. I'd try sizing 1/2 the length of the case and see if that helps.

[MtGun44]

I think that load is excessive. I'm impressed if you can shoot more than 15-20 of those
in a session. I have made a rule that I will shoot no more than 2 cylinders full of max loads
thru my 329 in one session.

Bill

[44man]

It has to be the gun with those fairly hot loads. That cylinder must flex too much.
I am still shooting brass from my SBH that have at least 40 loadings.
I have retired brass shot so much I just wanted new cases so I loaded them and gave them to a friend figuring he would shoot and toss the brass. I'll be darned if he still isn't using them.
I have had split necks but it was always with new brass, first firing. Same with my .475. The rest of the brass just keeps going and going.
Since 1956 I don't think I have tossed over 3 cases for the .44.
Heavy IHMSA and hunting loads but never max, only accurate loads.
Go back, start loading for accuracy instead of velocity. I think the load will be less then you are shooting and brass will last a lot longer.
Brand new brass is not accurate either, too much variation in case tension.

[Doc_Stihl]

+1 on what 44man said.

I guess my answer to "How many times for 44 mag brass?" is. Dunno, haven't worn any out yet.

I was lucky enough for a while to have a good supply of 1x fired factory loaded brass.
Initially sized, and trimmed, after that I have 12 or 13 loads on them without any real detectable difference in neck tension, primer pocket size, or OAL using different cast loads.

[358wcf]

I agree that your load seems a bit much-
Loading for a 629 Smith, I've only had a few case-mouth cracks, and NEVER a lengthwise crack in the side of the case. This is in over 20 years of loading 44Mag.
Your cases will lask very much longer with more moderate loads, your accuracy will improve dramatically, and you will learn to enjoy shooting your revolver more with lighter loads. Your target, whether paper or game, won't know the difference of perhaps 100fps when you hit it, and the lighter load gives you a much better chance of a hit.
Just an old guys experienced opinion--

358wcf [smilie=1:[smilie=1:[smilie=1:

[Bulltipper]

Will do! My Lyman book Calls for 24 gr starting and 25 gr max load for h110 and a 245 gr lead boolit. Any reason I cant back that down to 21 or 22 grains? I noticed the lower charges tend to smoke up the cases on the outside. Rico1950, I will try 1/2 sizing some cases to see what that does. I will mic that cylinder too to see where it is at. Mt gun44, yeah, that is a hot load but I don't always shoot that load, it's the one i carry on long trips into the backcountry for OH S***!! Thank you all for your input!

[jbc]

what lyman manual are you using? none of my lyman manuals have h110 data for cast boolits. Also i will second, or third the idea of backing off that charge- it seems quite excessive for a smith. You might want to try some 2400 if you have it around as I have found it much better for reducing charges and working your way up - can't do that with h110 and 296 as you stated.

[Hickory]

I've got one of those mean puppies.
I don't like shooting it with stout loads.


[http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab247/hickory_01/Guns/Guns035-1.jpg

[Edubya]

I have shot H110 at 21gr in my 629. I imagine that it would work at even lower. I don't have my loading notes here, but I think that 22.5 gave 1250 FPS from my 4" barrel.
I've taken the 2400 down to as low as 16gr and it gave almost a .22 feel to a .44. I'm having some physical problems right now and limiting my loads to 900 FPS in the .44. I do get darkened brass at those loads due to the case not fully obturating but they clean up real nicely anyway.
I suggest that instead of trying to accurately mic your cylinders, slug them. You will get a more accurate picture of the measurements and if you size them to this measurement they will shoot accurately, without leading.
EW

[Edubya]

Bulltipper, I ain't trying to rag on you or anything like that, but what do your primers look like? I remembered that even at 24gr my primers were flattened out pretty good.
EW

[Bulltipper]

JBC, i am using Lyman's 48th edition, Load is for a 429421 245gr boolit and I interpolated for the xtra 3 grains for the Mihec boolit. I agree it is a screaming hot load, I clocked my 22 grain load right at 1200fps but I wanted a top end load to see what it could do. Like i said, i am having no issues now with brass splitting with the h110, rather i had that splitting issue back when i was using hot 700x loadings and used brass. The 700x loads were a published load but i think that powder was too fast. I will try the 2400 to see how it performs.

[Bulltipper]

edubya, primers looked ok, same as factory ammo i fired out of the same gun, and the cases aren't sticking like they did with the 700x.

[buck1]

It has to be the gun with those fairly hot loads. That cylinder must flex too much.
I am still shooting brass from my SBH that have at least 40 loadings.
I have retired brass shot so much I just wanted new cases so I loaded them and gave them to a friend figuring he would shoot and toss the brass. I'll be darned if he still isn't using them.
I have had split necks but it was always with new brass, first firing. Same with my .475. The rest of the brass just keeps going and going.
Since 1956 I don't think I have tossed over 3 cases for the .44.
Heavy IHMSA and hunting loads but never max, only accurate loads.
Go back, start loading for accuracy instead of velocity. I think the load will be less then you are shooting and brass will last a lot longer.
Brand new brass is not accurate either, too much variation in case tension.

I have loaded the same 44 mag brass full house for years and years. Now and again I get a tiny neck split from flareing dozens upon dozens of times but No full blown splits.

[JesterGrin_1]

I do not think this has been brought up but if you shoot cast the pressure should be lower then shooting jacket of the same weight.

[44man]

I have loaded the same 44 mag brass full house for years and years. Now and again I get a tiny neck split from flareing dozens upon dozens of times but No full blown splits.
Yes, that is what I get. Maybe a 1/32" crack where the brass is crimped. Never had a large split. Funny that new brass will do it more often, even the soft Hornady .475 brass only split one or two with the first loading but never the rest.
I have never lost a Starline .475 case and they are more accurate then Hornady. Must just be the factory annealing.

[Crash_Corrigan]

I would try to anneal some of the cases prior to loading them. Take 100 new cases and separate them into two boxes. Anneal 50 and shoot them against the non-annealed cases. I betcha that the annealed cases split less and they also might be more accurate besides. It has to do with neck tension etc.

[44man]

I would try to anneal some of the cases prior to loading them. Take 100 new cases and separate them into two boxes. Anneal 50 and shoot them against the non-annealed cases. I betcha that the annealed cases split less and they also might be more accurate besides. It has to do with neck tension etc.
That does not work with a revolver unless super light loads are shot. Case tension is needed for powder burn and accuracy. Boolits will pull from recoil with any softening of brass.
Work hardened brass is more accurate.
Even skimming the very edge with a torch has resulted in 4 boolits pulled after one is shot. It is not fun trying to remove a cylinder with 4 pulled boolits.
Save annealing for rifles.

[JesterGrin_1]

44Man is correct do not anneal the 44 Mag Brass. W-296 and H-110 need the tension of the case along with a good crimp for a good burn.

Now if you are going to shoot black powder out of the .44 Mag go for it lol.

[EDK]

Why are you wanting to load that lightweight into territory more suited for a full size and weight steel gun? You are putting some major stress on the gun...and your wrists will regret this in years to come. Have you considered that John Taffin and the other writers who talked up the 454--475--500 wrist wreckers are now "paying for their fun" and also recommending 44 Special or 45 Colt as "the gun."

If you want something in cast to "kick some a**," go to OLD WEST BULLET MOLDS and look up their clone of LYMAN 429352....a 250+/- grain FULL WADCUTTER. Load it with a powder that has a wider range of load levels....and quit before your fillings start falling out! At the range and comfort level of that little cannon, use a more effective boolit shape and a lighter powder charge for its limited range!

I apologize if I have offended anyone, but carpal tunnel surgery isn't a lot of fun AND rotator cuff repairs haven't worked for various people I work with. "I ain't much of a rifle shot," to quote Wilford Brimley in Crossfire Trail, but I want to be able to shoot in years to come...with some hope of accuracy and comfort.

:cbpour: :redneck: :Fire:

[Dakoma]

Bulltipper,
Your 329PD may have oversize chambers. I'd try sizing 1/2 the length of the case and see if that helps.

HandLoader Magazine did a article about just sizeing parcialy,saves on brass and was more acurate,have not tried it though but plan on trying it.The article went on to say that full sized would rattle in cylinder and cartridges would be tipped down,and that cartridges that fit more snug had better acuracy with less stress on the brass or something like that.Just thought it was worth mentioning,maybe someone here read the same article.I have always liked 2400 for the 44 Mag. and load for acuracy,once I find the sweet spot that is what I use for a paticular load.I shoot a Dan Wesson 8" stainless model 744-VH and is not a lite weight pistol.

[Shuz]

I've been loading for the .44 mag since 1963 and have shot a couple hundred thousand rounds with narry a longinatudal split. I also have a 329PD, and my "go to" load in it is only 18g of 2400 and a 225 to 230g HP cast boolit. Lot easier on this light gun and the shooter. Heavier loads are reserved for the underlug Classics or my Rugers.

[MtGun44]

Bulltipper,

I have the 329 for backpacking trips in Wyoming griz and wolf country. Wonderful
tool, but with max loads I have to limit myself to 2-3 cyl full at a session to keep from
bruising my hand. I deepened the V notch so that the top of the sight is flush across AND
the red dot is tangent to the two sides. Works great that way for me, could never figure
what S&W had in mind before that.

Titanium has half the stiffness of steel, so expect twice the flex at a given pressure. Doesn't
mean it will fail, just that it flexes more. The modulus of elasticity of steel is about 30 million
psi and the modulus of elasticity for titanium is a bit over 15 million, so twice the flex with
parts that have the same geometry and load. This is probably the issue with the brass
cracking. No free lunches!

Bill

[Bulltipper]

Bill,
Thanks for that info, that is what i thought might be happening. I found a more comfortable load yesterday at 20 gr h110, it wasn't comfort i was looking for really, well not in that way haha. Yeah its a sharp recoiler but its job is to be light and deliver heavy firepower if i need it in the backcountry. it is after all a 44 magnum...

[BOOM BOOM]

HI
I would think that 10 shots out of a case is not unusual. I have split case mouths on 44 brass. I have also got the long longitudinal splits like you describe.
But I have never seen any cylinder erosion in eather a Ruger SBH or RH.
I have also seen cases at the range (38 & 357) that were split the other way all the way around so the case head & alittle bit forward was all that was on the ground. I guess the rest of the case was still in the guys cylinder.
Also old brass that has just sat loaded for a long time (10 years?) tends to split more I think.

[44man]

HI
I would think that 10 shots out of a case is not unusual. I have split case mouths on 44 brass. I have also got the long longitudinal splits like you describe.
But I have never seen any cylinder erosion in eather a Ruger SBH or RH.
I have also seen cases at the range (38 & 357) that were split the other way all the way around so the case head & alittle bit forward was all that was on the ground. I guess the rest of the case was still in the guys cylinder.
Also old brass that has just sat loaded for a long time (10 years?) tends to split more I think.
How true that is. Old brass is prone to splits. It is better to use the cases then to let them sit.
I have had loaded rifle rounds sit a long time and all the necks split IN THE BOX but they were formed cases to another caliber. Double annealed too.

[snowwolfe]

I have a 329PD S&W airweight and am pushing Mihec's new 503 boolit thru it with 24.5gr of H110. it is a great load and is shooting accuratly for me but I am only using brand new starline brass at this point. I have had a new cylinder put on this revolver (Compliments of S&W) as I had some previously fired brass let go and split during testing with 700x powder loads and etched some burns on the inside of the cylinder. I have since stopped using shotgun powder in magnum handguns and used brass too, but I am wondering how many times can a guy safely reload full house loads with out risking etching the cylinder thru split cases. The 329PD is particularly critical to this as the cylinder is titanium. I am thinking maybe 2 times for full house and maybe a third or fourth time as a light (for the 44 mag) plinking load then retirement? Any help would be appreciated.


What grain bullet are you shooting? If it is 240 grains or more I would bet money the load is way to hot.

[Dale53]

I only have conventional revolvers for the .44 Magnum (no ultra lights). I have shot probably 10,000 rounds of 23.0 grs of H110 with either the Lyman Keith 429421 or the similar H&G #503 without issue as my standard practice load. My hunting load was 24.0 grs of H110. The maximum load is 25.0 grs but I never saw a need to go that high.

In my 8 3/8" S&W Model 29 and my Ruger 7½" Red Hawk the 23.0 gr load chronographs at 1200 fps and the 24.0 grs chronographs at 1300 fps.

Either load will shoot through a large whitetail deer end for end. Didn't figure I needed more.

My S&W is still as tight as the day I bought it and the Ruger the same.

On topic - since my revolvers are conventional (all steel) I just shoot the cases until they fail. None of mine have failed by splitting lengthwise - just split case mouths when they are loaded one too many times. I would venture a guess that I have seen more than a dozen reloads ( of 23.0 grs or higher) without case failure (maybe as many as 20).

FWIW
Dale53

[Bulltipper]

Thanks Dale53, that answers a lot of questions for all of us! my velocities are very similar in the 4" S&W for the charges you stated.
kevin

[excavman]

Back in the early seventy's I loaded, logged and shot 20,000 rds through an OM Super Blackhawk in a period of 2 years. I doubt that I had over 200 rds of brass total. I don't remember having any splitting problems but I did anneal them every so often.