lee C312-155-2R in an m1

[indymadcaster]

hi
i was curious about loading for my M1A for service rifle practice and match shooting
300 yards and under >???????????

[madsenshooter]

I can't believe nobody has answered you in 4 days time. I should make a great practice bullet for you. I have the tumble lube version and it works fine in my Krag rifles, though it appears to run out of lube before the end of the 30in barrel. If you get the hardness of the bullet up over 30 via oven heat treating, near full velocity loads would be possible using the same powders commonly used for J-words. If you want to skip the the heat treatment stuff, I have an alloy that I get 2450fps out of with no leading in my K31. No, they're not as accurate as a Sierra or Nosler BTHP, but they're a darn sight cheaper for practice. I have some Eagan 169gr bullets cast of the alloy and loaded over 50grs of H4350 (30-06/Garand) that I'm going to run over the chrono Mon or Tues, I'll get back then.

[StarMetal]

I can't believe nobody has answered you in 4 days time. I should make a great practice bullet for you. I have the tumble lube version and it works fine in my Krag rifles, though it appears to run out of lube before the end of the 30in barrel. If you get the hardness of the bullet up over 30 via oven heat treating, near full velocity loads would be possible using the same powders commonly used for J-words. If you want to skip the the heat treatment stuff, I have an alloy that I get 2450fps out of with no leading in my K31. No, they're not as accurate as a Sierra or Nosler BTHP, but they're a darn sight cheaper for practice. I have some Eagan 169gr bullets cast of the alloy and loaded over 50grs of H4350 (30-06/Garand) that I'm going to run over the chrono Mon or Tues, I'll get back then.

Madsen,

I've found that Lee bullet to be very accurate. I built a match heavy barrel AR15 in 7.62x39 and the Lee bullet is the one I shoot from it. After settling in on some loads I refined a load using 4895 and PMC brass. My best group with it is 3/8 inch at 100 yards off the bench using a 10x Weaver. I'm more then pleased with the bullet and rifle.

[dualsport]

Madsen, I'm looking forward to hearing about your range trip. I'm very interested in these '06 loads in the Garand.

[madsenshooter]

Made it to the range today, beautiful day. Nothing spectacular to report on the loads, the Eagan did ok, maybe 2" at 100 yds. 311284 didn't work so well, both were going over 2300fps, no signs of leading, so I got the high velocity alloy thing down, just need to refine the loads. Boy that Carnuaba Red sure leaves a barrel nice and shiney! My club's chronograph seems to be a bit prejudiced against shiney cast bullets, it would only read an occasional one, but read every jacketed load I shot! The surprise of the day was a jacketed load, 50gr of H414 under the cheap PRVI 190gr match bullet. Going 2575fps it shot a respectable group. Bonus of the day, I lost a piece of brass, there's a 6" wide gutter over top of the shooting window, and you all know how a Garand ejects, I found my empty in that gutter, and since I was the only one there, got to police the other firing points. Found about 20 cases that had come from a Garand, most once fired LC.

Edit!!! Both the Eagan and the 311284 were loaded over 50gr of RL19, gotta start keeping better notes!!! Wondered why the speed on the Eagan was so slow, next time 4350 or WW760!

[Pirate69]

50 grains of H414 and a jacketed 190 grain bullet; how did the primer look? H414 is kind of slow for a Garand.

[madsenshooter]

50gr is 50gr. That amount of powder can only produce so much gas. There is much myth in the too slow a powder, too heavy a bullet, idea believed by many Garand shooters. The volume of gas is what really matters. Primers ok, actually a touch more rounded than the 50gr of RL19 under the 311284. I use a gas plug with changeable jets, though it presently has the smallest jet in it. Parashooter graphed the port pressure of a 210gr cast load using 50gr 4831, as you can see, it isn't much different than that that of a ball round using 50gr of 4895. A graph might help some people get the idea in their heads. Your concern is well founded though, generally someone shooting that slow a powder would be using more than 50gr, that's were the trouble starts!

Parashooter if you happen to see this, how about graphing 50gr of H414 (760) under a 190!

[Pirate69]

I should have known that you were using an adjustable plug. If the port pressure gets above the 6,000 to 8,000 psi range, you can get some damage with prolonged firing. I recently saw a photo of a Long Range shooter that was pushing the port pressure with a Sierra 190 grainer. Busted out the back of the receiver. Recently saw a receiver that was firing commercial 180 gain bullets. Yup, cracked the back of the receiver. You can mitigate a lot of the port pressure with an adjustable plug but if you don't use one; there could be problems. See the following quote. Just my opinion.

This is a quote from the Sierra Bullet website regarding loading for the M1.

The problem here is not one of pressure, but of port pressure. Port pressure is the amount of pressure remaining in the barrel of a gas-operated firearm, when the bullet passes by the gas port. The Garand was designed for use with medium burning rate powders 4895 and IMR 4064. Using a slow-burning powder such as 4831, even if the load develops relatively mild chamber pressure, will still give excessively high port pressures. This causes violent cycling of the action and can result in a bent operating rod. Load your Garand with only those medium-burning powders which are compatible with its gas system.

[sqlbullet]

However, lead bullets behave differently than jacketed bullets. They impact the shape of the pressure curve, making it different than the curve produced by a copper jacketed bullet over the same charge.

BruceB and BobS both have some significant experience in the M1 arena. Read about their load for the M1 here (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=312730&postcount=15).

I am not a student of internal ballistics, so don't shoot the messenger. I have just been reading quite a bit lately (since I got my two M1 Garand Winnies) about lead bullets and the Garand. I have adjustable plugs on the way (cheap insurance), but according to Bruce and Bob, they are unneeded with the loads they document.

[Pirate69]

sqlbullet,
Agreed, lead cast bullets are a different animal. This concern has been with the use of jacketed bullets, questionable powders and charges for an as-issued Garand.

In madsenshooter's case, he is using a jacketed bullet and that is where my comments came from. The graph indicates the port pressure would be around 14,000 psi when the bullet reached the gas cylinder. The fact he is using an adjustable plug helps to reduce the pressure in the gas cyclinder and allows for use of different powders and bullets. May not be a problem with the adjustable plug. Can't say the same without the adjustable plug.