91/30 trigger

[rollmyown]

My new 91/30 is a real beauty, nealy mint barrel great bluing, and only slight crazing to finnish on the stock. It's a hex reciever, manufactured in 1927.

Problem is I've mostly shot modern sporters. Most of my rifles have had trigger jobs, and are very light and crisp. The Mossin is not.

The question is will a trigger job on a stock military rifle have any negative impact on it's value or desireability as a collectable piece?

Thanks to any respondants... Rob

[NickSS]

There are so many Nagants around that I doubt that they will increase significantly in value so a trigger job will not affect its value. I remember the good old days when you could buy a 1903 Springfield for $30 to $50 but at that time good wages were $5 an hour so today they really have not appreciated in real value much. Then you could say the same for a lot of rifles. At one time I bought 303 Enfields for $15 Today the same rifle would cost you $150 to $200 As the Dollar has depreciated from a dollar down to about $.08 in buying power the value of the rifle has not gone up at all.

[eb in oregon]

There are so many Nagants around that I doubt that they will increase significantly in value so a trigger job will not affect its value.

Actually it will. Many of the "Type A" collectors will think bad thoughts at you for "altering the history of the rifle," but as pointed out, there are many, many of them. Basically it's your call as it's your rifle.

eb

[mike in co]

Actually it will. Many of the "Type A" collectors will think bad thoughts at you for "altering the history of the rifle," but as pointed out, there are many, many of them. Basically it's your call as it's your rifle.

eb

the probability that he has a "collector" grade rifle is pretty slim. most are factory refinish and/or arsenal rebuilds, and they are all conversions of '91's.

so do a search on the trigger rework..it has been posted on the forums somewhere.

mike in co

[milsurp mike]

Go to www.Gunboards.com and ask this question in the Collector Forum.Lots of guy's over there to help you.Mike

[eb in oregon]

"the probability that he has a "collector" grade rifle is pretty slim. most are factory refinish and/or arsenal rebuilds, and they are all conversions of '91's."

Lurk here for awhile and you may think different. Some of these guys are "wrapped tight" when it comes to any rifle.

http://milsurpshooter.net/

A "collector" is anybody that has more than one, and some of these guys have ROOMS full of just about every "milsurp" anyone can find. Some collect Mosin Nagants by every year and manufacturer, so yes, it could be considered a "collectible."

However I digress from the threads original intent.

eb

[mike in co]

"the probability that he has a "collector" grade rifle is pretty slim. most are factory refinish and/or arsenal rebuilds, and they are all conversions of '91's."

Lurk here for awhile and you may think different. Some of these guys are "wrapped tight" when it comes to any rifle.

http://milsurpshooter.net/

A "collector" is anybody that has more than one, and some of these guys have ROOMS full of just about every "milsurp" anyone can find. Some collect Mosin Nagants by every year and manufacturer, so yes, it could be considered a "collectible."

However I digress from the threads original intent.

eb


you missed the word "probability"

i don't hang around there for a reason

[eb in oregon]

Basically it's your call as it's your rifle.

Nah, I caught that "probability" part.

And I don't agree with some "collectors" desire to keep every firearm in it's "factory original," unblemished, with original patina (dirt, rust, oil and grease) and chunks of wood missing.

Tools are made to be maintained and repaired. An approach though would be to purchase a spare trigger assembly, not too hard to find, and alter that to your hearts content. I imagine that there are plenty of shops in Finnland that has just the ticket. Those guys still love and modify the Mosin Nagant to incredible extremes.

eb

[craig61a]

I've got a Tula '27 Hex - albiet a little worn. As far modifying the trigger, you can always just take the trigger and bolt stop spring off and get replacement parts to modify. I done this with a few of my Mosins. If you can find a Finn trigger I'd recommend that. But in the grand scheme of things I doubt very much whether your modified trigger will matter much as far as resale goes...

[MtGun44]

I think they made about 10-15 MILLION Mosins. They were selling for $10 50 yrs ago, now
they are up to $75-90. Not even close to running out, near as I can tell.

Not likely to be a serious collector gun. Now some US milsurps were made in the 1-2 million
total production range, getting scarce in unmodified form after 50-100 yrs. With 10 times
as many Mosins made, you figure it out.

Bill

[dualsport]

Collectibility is just a matter of time. Given enough of it, they will all be collector guns. Won't matter in our lifetime with these MNs, but in two hundred years, what will be available? They are all a piece of history, the value placed on a particular gun is only in our minds. The question is a simple one, should or shouldn't we preserve these pieces of history for future generations? Some care a lot, some couldn't care less. To me, my milsurps connect me with the past, and also by preserving them for future 'collectors' connect me with the future. I like that. Down the road your ratty Russian will be the apple of some guy's eye, though he hasn't been born yet.

[Beekeeper]

milsurp mike,
You really want him to get harangued to death don't you!
Sending anyone to gunboards.com is like giving them a death sentence.

rollmyown,
Go to surplus rifle .com forum and look in the mosin forum.
There is a guy there that makes a simple spring that takes the slop out of a mosin trigger.
There is also info on several other mods you can make including a complete new trigger assy.


Jim

[eb in oregon]

I think they made about 10-15 MILLION Mosins. They were selling for $10 50 yrs ago, now
they are up to $75-90. Not even close to running out, near as I can tell.

Not likely to be a serious collector gun. Now some US milsurps were made in the 1-2 million
total production range, getting scarce in unmodified form after 50-100 yrs. With 10 times
as many Mosins made, you figure it out.

Bill

50 years ago $10.00 was about a goods days wage. $90.00 today is about an average wage for a working guy so the price of the rifle really hasn't changed.

As for being a serious collector gun, once comic books were considered "disposable trash." Well, I wish i had all my first edition "Avengers," "Spiderman," "Fantastic Four," and a whole lot more. I'd retire with cash to spend.

Current availability has nothing to do with "future collectibility" and value. Once 1903 Springfields were "a dime a dozen," now? Just thinking here.

eb

[Linstrum]

About the Mosin-Nagant's sloppy triggers, in 1964 I got my first decent accurate high powered rifle from Sears & Roebuck for $9.99, which was a day's wages back 46 years ago. It is a World War Two battlefield pick-up Russian 91/30 Mosin-Nagant with the round receiver. Its receiver and barrel dates are both 1937, and it has the typical sloppy trigger. Since that rifle does somewhere around 2-inches at 100 yards and is close enough to a .30-06 with 150-grain bullets to keep me happy, I had no reason to get another rifle until my financial situation improved enough for me to afford a Remington 700 ADL .30-06 in 1991. For 27 years I used a rifle with a sloppy trigger and it did not cause me any grief.

Now I'm not saying "kwitcher bitchin" since there is a darned good reason why triggers are made to be crisp with a predictable consistent let-off, and your concern is highly legitimate. As has already been pointed out by EB IN OREGON, the Finns made all sorts of improvements; and BEEKEEPER pointed out that there is information available online. The trigger upgrades that I'm aware of do NOT involve any machining of the receiver and/or bolt and therefor don't affect the collector's value of the rifle since all the original parts can simply be saved and put back on later if it ever comes down to that.

I really like the 7.62x54R cartridge because it is just as versatile as the .30-06 and is a good cast boolit shooter. The Mosin-Nagant rifle is well designed, fool-proof, and robust, and I've got seven of them now. Three are Finn 91/30 rebuilds, two are Russian 91/30s, and two are the so-called "beaver-chewed Battle of Stalingrad" Russian 91/59 carbines. The Finns all have free-floated barrels, reworked triggers, and my one Finn 91/30 3600 atmosphere high pressure barrel sniper has a roller trigger that is probably about as good as can be easily done to a Mosin-Nagant. However, the roller trigger isn't even close to something like my Remington 700 ADL, but it is smooth and tight.

One of the things I tell ALL Mosin-Nagant owners (and other milsurp owners as well) is that if they shoot the inexpensive steel-cased military surplus ammo from the former Soviet Union and its allied Com Bloc countries YOU MUST WASH OUT YOUR BARREL IMMEDIATELY AFTER USING THE CORROSIVE AMMO! It is all corrosive and if you don't wash and scrub out your barrel with hot water several times you can kiss your nice barrel goodbye! Yup, it is that bad, and Hoppe's #9 and all the other petroleum-based "three wipes and you are done" solvents meant for non-corrosive ammo are totally useless for dissolving out of the barrel the potassium chloride salt residue that is responsible for the rapid and nasty corrosion. The only thing that will wash out potassium chloride is WATER, and hot water is best. The fact that water is the only thing that will save your barrel from rapid destruction caused by potassium chloride salt residue is well established, and has been for over 70 years, and is not debatable. Sorry to sound a bit harsh, but I have seen way, way too many highly accurate military surplus rifles totally and utterly destroyed by corrosive ammo when the owner would not use water to wash out the barrel. The Finn rebuilt Mosin-Nagants have 3/4-inch, or better, accuracy at 100 yards you can't touch for probably less than $1200 in most new manufacture rifles, and barrel washing is real important in keeping those special and beautiful old rifles accurate!


rl755

[MtGun44]

eb,

No disagreement here. Two things tho - tons more Mosins have been made compared to
other milsurps, the quality was never very good compared to some of the old Mausers (DWM
and Loewe 1891s and 1895s come to mind) and Krags and 1903 Springfields prior to the
03A3.

Eventually EVERYTHING man-made will be an antique, and since most of them will be gone
or broken, one in good condition will be unusual, rare and possibly - valuable.

Bill

[Uncle Grinch]

Try the Huber Concepts trigger.

http://www.huberconcepts.com/

[rollmyown]

Thanks for the comments. Thanks linstrum for the reminder re corrosive primers. I'm all too aware of the need to protect the bore by use of generous flushing with hot water. It can't be said often enough. It's such a shame to look down the bore of an otherwise well preserved mil-surp to see a totally buggered barrel.
Great suggestion to get spare or aftermarket assembly so that the rifle can be returned to it's original factory spec..

Cheers Rob.

[Pystis]

The Finns all have free-floated barrels, reworked triggers, and my one Finn 91/30 3600 atmosphere high pressure barrel sniper has a roller trigger that is probably about as good as can be easily done to a Mosin-Nagant. However, the roller trigger isn't even close to something like my Remington 700 ADL, but it is smooth and tight.


rl755

Sorry for thread hijacking!

Linstrum, you got me curious. What kind of trigger you got? Any pics? Is it a M27 trigger?

[Linstrum]

Hi, Pystis, I haven't seen you around for four years! I hope all is well.

Do you have any photos of the M27 trigger group that you can post?

The rifle came directly from your country in about 1998 and on the outside it looks like a standard Suomi Armia 91/30 hexagonal receiver with a 75 centimeter barrel. It does have the rare Tikkakoski special high strength nickel steel barrel and it is marked 3600 atmospheres pressure. I have never seen the insides of a M27, so I don't know if the roller trigger is from that model. I have some photos of this rifle at:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=77686
but I don't have any photos available of the trigger without having to remove the barrel and receiver group from the stock.


rl760

[Pystis]

Hi, Pystis, I haven't seen you around for four years! I hope all is well.

Do you have any photos of the M27 trigger group that you can post?

The rifle came directly from your country in about 1998 and on the outside it looks like a standard Suomi Armia 91/30 hexagonal receiver with a 75 centimeter barrel. It does have the rare Tikkakoski special high strength nickel steel barrel and it is marked 3600 atmospheres pressure. I have never seen the insides of a M27, so I don't know if the roller trigger is from that model. I have some photos of this rifle at:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=77686
but I don't have any photos available of the trigger without having to remove the barrel and receiver group from the stock.


rl760

Well, thanks for asking Sir, everything's as well as I can ever hope for! I work in metal industry and I'm lucky to still have a job after so many have lost them.
I've visited the forum every once in a while, but I've had lots of other projects going on and therefor been less active. Luckily I've recently had more time to cast and shoot and been more active on forum also. I've also starting to shoot CAS, which I actually came across here at Cast Boolits Forum.

You might want to, if you already haven't, check out the 7.62X54R sites and M27 page , which address is below. Scroll down and there are pics of the M27 trigger group. I have one in my LMG- barreled sporter, it's really hard to beat on feel when comparing the other Mosin solutions.

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinM27.htm

Great sites to check out anyway!

[Linstrum]

Hi, Pystis, Thank you for the URL address for the M27 web page. I looked at the photos of the trigger group, and it is slightly different than what is on my hex receiver 91/30 with a 1944-dated Tikkakoski barrel. The only difference is my rifle has a roller instead of the pin that releases the sear. I have two other 91/30 Finns that have trigger groups that look the same as the M27.

I didn't know that Finland is having problems with not enough jobs. It is the same here where I am in New Mexico, which is in the southwest part of The United States, and several friends cannot find jobs. So, I'm glad that you are doing well!

I have four friends from Finland who are all brothers and sisters, and they all go back once in awhile to see their cousins. Their mother gave them all names that start with "P", so they are Pirjo, Pirkko, Paula, and Pekka. Pekka said he was named for Pehr Evind Svinhufvud.


rl761