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dk17hmr
06-28-2006, 10:46 PM
After a little while of not shooting my 1903, because after getting it I did research on it being a in 380k serial number range I was advised not to shoot factory loads only light loads all I really could do was clean it, just resently gettin 30 cal molds and then today getting Hornady gas checks and a Lee .309 sizer from Midway.
The bullet is cast from one of the molds I got from my boss and it weighs in after gettin a gas check and lube at about 192grs. I started loading with 35grs of IMR 4350 and slowly worked my way up to 36.5grs which shoud hit 2000fps mark. I stopped there because of the groups I was getting with it, max load is 50 grains. I only had the bench at 40 yards mostly because that was the only part of our range that was shady, but with the open sights I am pleased with the groups.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/dk17hmr/DSCF0005.jpg

5 shots 40 yards.
I loaded up 60 rounds this evening.
DK

Buckshot
06-29-2006, 03:23 AM
................Dang, that's some right smart shootin'! Nice looking old Springfield too. Looks like you're on your way. What boolit is that, anyway?

BTW, the danger with the low numbered Springfields, or those that were hardened all the way through is with a casehead failure. Or however it happens, the sudden release of high pressure gas into the reciever ring. Those that were heat treated too long are file hard and brittle. While immensely strong to compressive forces (like glass), they will not stand a sudden shock.

I'd gotten an original NRA sporter Springfield from my grandfather and shot it with all manner of loads for probably 30 years. All it took was a double charge of 4227 behind a Ly 311284. The casehead ruptured and the rifle's action disintigrated like a hand grenade. In case you're wondering, that 217gr cast slug tripped the chronograph at better then 3,000 fps.

................Buckshot

bradh
06-29-2006, 09:47 AM
Damn nice!!! I am now getting my 1903 out!

Char-Gar
07-01-2006, 10:26 AM
Buckshot... I have a couple of questions...

1) What kind of cast bullet accuracy did you get with that NRA Sporter? What was its potential?

2) The NRA Sporter was made from 1924 to 1933. The last of the old single heat treated actions were made around 1917 or 18. Did they continue to use the older "low number" receivers in the NRA Sporters as late as 1924?

I am doing the final tweaking of my feaux NRA Sporter prior to final finishing of wood and metal. I am sorta curious to know when I have tweaked all it has to give. Right now I am finding no problems geting .75 (five shot) groups at 50 yards with cast. I can usually get three or four of those in .40 or better.

Thus far the only bullet I have tried is 311284.

I intended to head to the range this moring, but it raining cast and dogs here in South Texas.. we shure need it as the whole country is as dry as a popcorn fart.

sundog
07-01-2006, 10:48 AM
DK and Chargar, I've linked this page a few times before, but it's worth a look. Since thse pics were taken, my sporter has been bedded and Timney trigger installed. It digest quite a few different cast boolits quite well; 311291, 311284, 308-165-SIL, 30-180-SP, and #301. Be sure to slide down the page and see the target pic. It was shot off a ricketty bench behind the barn with a not so good rest. Not to bad fer a countree boy. sundog

http://home.valornet.com/corkyconnell/sporter.htm

oops, my mistake..., the trigger had already been installed....

Char-Gar
07-01-2006, 01:23 PM
Sundog... What kind of accuracy improvment did the glass bedding produce?

To glass bed or not is my current dilemma. I would rather not...although I know it won't hurt and might help....because

1. My old gunsmith mentor beat it into my head, that glass bedding is just a cover up for poor worksmanship.

2) If I am going to glass bed..I want to do it before I go to the final shape, and finish of the stock and I am getting quite antsy to get the job done.

I am having to really fight my eagerness to get it all done, so I can sit back and admire the fnished product. I am at the stage where hurry can can turn the rifle from a finely built rifle into just another home workshop project.

I am trying to keep from working on the rifle unless I have enough time at one session to do the particular piece of work without having to hurry.

As it now stands, this rifle will deliver better accuracy than my cherry issue 03A3 and the same accuracy as my 1954 vintage Model 70... I am talking consistant on demand 1.5 MOA. The barrel is brand new and the load was SWAG (311284/18/2400) and I am thinking that as the barrel breaks in and with some load development those groups will shrink some.

I am staying with that first SWAG load as I do the tweaking so I can see the positive or negative effect of the tweaking.

I will probably glass bed the front receiver lug and rear of the barrel, but it goes against my grain if it is not necessary.

But..I have spent many hours spotting and scraping with the metal in and out of the wood many scores of times. Beside... I would hate for somebody to take it apart some day and look at the bedding and say.. "that old boy didn't know how to bed a rifle and had to use glass".. Yea...I know.. I know...but I am just crazy around the edges.

StarMetal
07-01-2006, 01:33 PM
Charger,

I had two 03 Remington Springfields. All I did to them was added a receiver sight and glassbedded them. Polished the triggers up some. I shot the Lyman 311284 exclusively out of them and used fast to medium rifle powders for 1850 fps and up. Both..shot into under 3/4 and 1 inch at 100 yards off the bench. The first one I sold to a friend's friend that hounded me for a year to buy it. First time out (he's not a cast shooter) he shot a 5/8 ragged hole group with it. Boy did I hear about it and many many thanks. In my opinion glassbedding made a BIG difference.

I disagree with your gunsmith mentor. That might be true what he said about a rifle built from the ground up by a professional gunsmith. Face, modern commercial rifles today are machine mass produced. Then get get a pretty good close metal/stock fit, but not as close and accurate as glassbedding. If you don't intend to have a gunsmith custom build and fit a stock to your rifle, glassbedding is really great.

Joe

Char-Gar
07-01-2006, 01:56 PM
Joe... One, well maybe two questions. I am not trying to be "horsey" just gather information.

1) Will that rifle produce 1 moa groups on demand. I mean, can you do it every day or will it just do it on your good days.

2) Are we talking 3 shot, 5 shot or 10 shot groups.

I know glass bedding is the easy way and a help to many folks. I have glassed a dozen or more rifles.

However, I am building this one from scratch and holding myself to higher than "duffer" standards. This stock was not a "drop in" fit by any means. It was pretty much from scratch. I am not looking to do it the easy way.

I have built quite a few rifles over the past 45 years and most were pretty good examples. However, I have four final projects and then I am done. I am building these not only for myself, but as heirlooms for the kids. That is why I am being so picky. I was these to be the very best I can do...no short cuts..no hurry..no second rate work.

StarMetal
07-01-2006, 02:09 PM
Charger,

The first rifle was an arsenal rebuild. It was a 03 Remintong action with a new 4 groove Springfield barrel and scant stock. Thus the reason I made it a shooter. It shot like I said until you got tired of shooting it or you shot it enough to get it really dirty. In other words consistantly. After that friend told me it shot 5/8 ragged holes with ALL match jacketed, including handloads, I felt sick I let it go. The second, also a Remington 03 action, but with the pistol grip stock, was in alot more used condition. It shot the same though. It too had a 4 groove barrel. Now one, I don't remember which, I not only glassbedded the action, but the entire barrel too. The other I bedded just the action...they both shot the same, the same bullet, the same load. Yeah, don't worry, my wife has been telling me I'm a dummy for selling them for years. Everytime I mention getting another one she says "What for, so you can fix it up and then sell it?".

I tell you, I was shocked to see a 30-06 shoot a 5/8 group with iron sights. God I can kick myself for letting that go. By the way my Krag shoots about the same. I have done nothing to it though and I still have that. It was my Dads.

Anyways I've seen glassbedding make alot of improvement on alot of rifles. Same with free floating a barrel, but I have seen alot of cases where free floating didn't do a thing. I would think pillar bedding to be very good also. Plain wood bedding in my opinion is affected by the humidity and heat too much, even if it is sealed well. Next better up the line in my view are the laminated stocks, then the synthetic ones.

Joe

Char-Gar
07-01-2006, 03:02 PM
Joe..When I glass bed a rifle, I use glass in the entire length of the barrel channel. However, I tape the barrel from the front of the chamber to the muzzle, so that part doesn't bear on the wood. The glass in the barrel channel adds allot of stability to the wood.

I have no problems with a properly beded and sealed wood to metal fit. My biggest problem with that method is that over a period of time, some wood fiber may compress and the bedding go south. Oil in the action mortice doesn't help. The probem seem to be worse on the rear action tang/screw.

sundog
07-01-2006, 03:06 PM
Chargar, fair enough question. Did the bedding make any difference?

Welllll, maybe. I have another sporter made from a RI (CMP acquisition) with a pristine HS bbl. When I put it in a similar stock purchased later - Bell & Carlson Carbolite - the second stock fit much better. The first stock NEEDED bedding, the second one does not (I think). The RI is fitted with front and rear Ly peeps. Shoots good. The scoped sporter on my web site is, believe it or not, a NO with a Rem 2-groove bbl - one reason I selected it for scoping is that it has not cut for stripper clip. BUT, it's a shooter!

So, why did I say maybe? I think in time, it will start to loosen up and the bedding will just prolong that. Besides, it was a project gun I had never done bedding myself, and I had a very good friend show me how. It was all worth it. Will I do the other??? Oh, maybe. Sometime after I retire for the second time. Will either be good hand-me-downs? I recon the kids and grandkids will fight over them! Bad part about dyin' is ya kain't stay here to watch it! sundog

StarMetal
07-01-2006, 03:29 PM
Charger,

On rifles that I'm just going to use glassbedding, I mortise out a pretty fair amount of wood to have a big base of bedding. If I'm worried about spongy wood, I pillar along with glassbedding.

I'll tell you something else too. I messed with Acra Glass from Brownells and I don't like it. The BEST stuff I found for bedding is what the Marines use to use (don't know what they use now) is Devcon. I use the Liquid Steel in putty form. It is a two part mix but it's not that runny stuff. It's more like soft putty. Dries pretty fast and is indeed pretty darn hard stuff.

Most rifles I'll glass bed the action and little into the first inch or so of the barrel, then freefloat the barrel. Now I done that with my Type 38 Jap Arisaka custom 260 Remington and boy oh boy it wouldn't shoot. It walked them as the barrel heated and kept walking the more you shot. AND it started this walking process after the second or third shot too. So I made a glassbed support up near the tip of the forearm. I used shims first to see how much pressure I needed on the barrel and test fired till I got the results I wanted, then glassbedded a pad of Devcon. That did the trick.

I had a feather weight Model 70 Winchester in 7x57. Would shoot worth the hoot. I pulled it apart and Win used this dab of somekind of epoxy in the action bedding lug area that I imagine was suppose to get hard. Mine was gummy like. I dug it out, glassbedded the action, and freefloated the barrel. Wow! Consistant 3/4 inch groups with jacketed. Good enough for deer hunting. A friend bought one at the same time. He called after his first range session and said it sucked. Told him what I did. He did that too and his shot alot better. He said the Win epoxy on his was soft too.

Joe

twotrees
07-02-2006, 10:41 AM
Try Red Dot and Unique for Loads under 2000FPS with Lyman 311291 GC. For loads over 2000 cast #2 alloy, lube with the graphite Lyman lube and use IMR 3031 powder to 30-30 level charges. These work very well in my Remington made 03A3 4 groove.

Good Shooting,

TwoTrees

Buckshot
07-02-2006, 11:00 AM
...............Charger, the Sporter had to be re-barreled as the original was trashed from corrosive ammo without the proper care. It was nicely accurate. To me that means it was a dependable shooter. Never tried any benchrest reloading stuff with it. IIRC the action was made in 1911 or so. For sure it was pre WW1.

................Buckshot

dk17hmr
07-05-2006, 10:12 PM
Mine is "as issued" I havent done anything to it and dont plan on it. The bullet is an Ideal 308329. I was gone for 5 days over the holiday and havent dug the chrony out to see if I am close to 2000 fps, it doesnt really matter it shoots good at the speed it is but knowing FPS helps with ballistics.

DK