43 Spanish question

[badgeredd]

I seem to need some help from some of you guys that are more experienced with BP cartridges than I am.

I acquired 43 Spanish RB and have been working on getting it shootable. One problem is with the chamber. Full power loads of black are problematic. It is rough and I am told that it will grab the fired cases to the point that one has to drive out the fired cases. What my thought is here is to work on smoothing the chamber up so I can enjoy this old piece. I really do not want to change out the barrel or re-chamber it if I can salvage the old girl in her own glory.

What I have in mind is to form up some brass from 348 brass. Since I'll be forming the brass for MY gun, I could care less whether it is interchangeable with other Spaniards. I intend to lap the chamber to smooth it, but in my mind, that would best be accomplished with a fire cartridge case. That said, I am seeking some suggestions for low power loads (with Unique?) that would form cases but not to the point of sticking them. Do you think that 5 grains of Unique would form the cases somewhat to the chamber? I am thinking that multiple loadings may be necessary to get the case fully formed but low charges would kinda allow me to creep up on a fully formed case for lapping and smoothing the chamber.

What do you think? Maybe another powder would be better. Suggestions are welcome to accomplish my stated goal.

Edd

[Freightman]

Have you done a chamber cast? that is where I would start.

[Marvin S]

I don't think you will be able to form the brass because of the rim that needs to be formed also to make it thicker. I have brass that is 348 headstamped and also some Bell basic.

Maybe some where around 20 to 22 gr of 5744 should form the cases well. I started with 24gr when I got mine and it was mild and had very little smoke on the case necks after firing. I think that rim needs to be close to .090 thick. You may consider reaming to 44-77 sharps and remington if its only the neck area that's rough.

[leadman]

I fireform my 7mm Rem brass using 13grs of Unique and fill the rest of the case with Cream of Wheat, put a plug of candle wax in the neck so it won't spill.

Works to fireform the case perfectly on the first firing.

Not saying the powder charge is correct for what you are doing, but I did work up from lower amounts of powder for mine.

I may have a Lyman mold for the Spanish up for sale if the boolit from my new mold works in my 71 Mauser if your interested.

[Multigunner]

If you are determined to make this a shooter rather than a wall hanger perhaps you might set the breech back one thread and freshen the chamber with a finishing reamer, if any are available that is.

If you lapp the chamber, which may not be a bad idea to try first regardless, just be sure it doesn't get wallowed out enough to make firing the original spec cartridge a safety hazard.

In general most surface bore pitting doesn't go more than a few tenths of thousands deep, no way of knowing about a chamber though. A couple of BP revolvers i've cleaned up had rough chambers , but took very little polishing to slick up enough for easy ejection and no sign of being noticably oversized.

PS
old hardened fouling left for near a century to harden can cause the same sticking case problems. The Calvary used to supply a bronze reamer-like took to scrape away BP fouling from the chamber of some breech loaders and repeaters in the field.

[badgeredd]

Have you done a chamber cast? that is where I would start.

The chamber is terribly rough which causes fired full house BP loads to stick the case. A chamber cast could feasibly cause me more trouble than be of help.

Edd

[badgeredd]

I don't think you will be able to form the brass because of the rim that needs to be formed also to make it thicker. I have brass that is 348 headstamped and also some Bell basic.

Maybe some where around 20 to 22 gr of 5744 should form the cases well. I started with 24gr when I got mine and it was mild and had very little smoke on the case necks after firing. I think that rim needs to be close to .090 thick. You may consider reaming to 44-77 sharps and remington if its only the neck area that's rough.

There are at least 2 companies forming 43 Spanish brass from 348 brass. I believe I have the capability to do so myself. If not, you'll be able to tell me "I told you so" but it is something I want to try once. The rim thickness is a minor problem actually (my chamber measures .083" for the rim). I appreciate your concern though. If you look at the brass from Old West Scrounger or Buffalo Bullet you can see they formed the rim by pushing up (swaging) the outer edge to make the headspace correct. Bertram brass does make cartridges for it but right now I can't find any that is available. Most places seem to be out at this time. Besides it is WAY too expensive for my tastes. I HAD considered getting a few if I can find some.

Edd

[badgeredd]

Thanks guys for the input.

Leadman,

Thank you...that does help. I'm thinking that maybe 5 grains of Unique might do it. IF not I can always use more and kinda creep up on it.

Multigunner,

Good thoughts...I believe I could set the barrel back fairly easily but if I have to go to that far, I'll replace the barrel (it is shootable but nowhere near pristine) and re-chamber the gun for 40-65. The chamber actually has some gouges in it from what I'd think was a previous owner trying to remove a stuck case. I already have the reamer for 40-65 and it would just add to my fun times with somewhat lower expense. I'm thinking along the same lines as you mentioned, no harm in trying CAREFULLY to see if I can salvage the old girl as she is. Kinda nothing ventured, nothing gained scenario.

Edd

[looseprojectile]

I have shaped a wood dowel to the approximate shape of the chamber and used some sort of grit to polish and smooth the chamber. Valve grinding compound with added oil works for me. Those old black powder chambers are quite forgiving of some removal of material.
Spin it with a variable speed drill motor till you are tired or you wear out your dowel or the chamber is clean. You can be selective in where you apply the grit according to where the roughness is.
The last rifle I did this way was a Mini Mark Ten in .223 that would not extract because of some roughness near the back of the chamber. Someone must have done a bad job of removing a separated case and buggered the chamber. Smooth as silk now. Some of the old rusted chambers and bores don't respond to steel wool because the rust is harder than the steel wool.
I hope you can fix it with little effort.

Life is good

[Marvin S]

I bought my reformed 348 from Track of the wolf and the Bell cases from a board member. I suppose if you are determined enough you can offset the rim maybe in a arbor press after you make some punches and dies. I was determined enough that I built my own mold for the 43 Spanish that cast soft lead at .442.

[badgeredd]

I bought my reformed 348 from Track of the wolf and the Bell cases from a board member. I suppose if you are determined enough you can offset the rim maybe in a arbor [/B[B]]press after you make some punches and dies. I was determined enough that I built my own mold for the 43 Spanish that cast soft lead at .442.

BINGO!!!!!

I am determined enough to try, at the least. :wink:

YEP, I intend on making my own molds too...more time and talent than money...if you will. :D

Edd

[Marvin S]

If want PM me with email and Ill send you the LEE load data that came with the die set if you need it.

[badgeredd]

If want PM me with email and Ill send you the LEE load data that came with the die set if you need it.

Thanks for the offer. I've ordered Lee dies and 348 brass for the old gal, so you can see I intend on giving it a real try.

looseprojectile,

Exactly what I've done to this point. As a friend put it, the chamber looks like someone used a rasp in it. Some pretty serious gouges but I have managed to soften them up so they don't look quite as bad with some gentle use of polishing stones, a wooden lap, and some steel wool. My idea on using some formed brass is to get the areas that are the worst smoothed enough they don't grab the case any longer. The worst areas are in the area of the shoulder of the case. I may have an "improved" 43 Spanish when I am done. :kidding:

Edd

[school of mines]

Any updates on this project? I also have a 43 Spanish Rolling Block that I just loaded some BP loads for. Hope to take it to the range this weekend. I'm curious as to what boolits everyone is using for this caliber? I've loaded the the Lyman and RCBS .439".

Thanks!

[Lead pot]

If your having to drive out a case it is not a good idea to make a chamber cast because you will be melting the cerrosafe out, you most likely will not drive it out.

I have had a lot of badly pitted chambers and a rough chamber a case should extract because the brass will spring back .004-5 enough to extract the case. What I would check out is maybe a slight or badly rung chamber this will stick a case more than anything and the tell tale signs are a lighter colored band on the case mouth when you drive the case out if you cant see the shadow by looking down the bore or find a bore scope.

Kurt

[Dframe]

If you are determined to make this a shooter rather than a wall hanger perhaps you might set the breech back one thread and freshen the chamber with a finishing reamer, if any are available that is.

If you lapp the chamber, which may not be a bad idea to try first regardless, just be sure it doesn't get wallowed out enough to make firing the original spec cartridge a safety hazard.

In general most surface bore pitting doesn't go more than a few tenths of thousands deep, no way of knowing about a chamber though. A couple of BP revolvers i've cleaned up had rough chambers , but took very little polishing to slick up enough for easy ejection and no sign of being noticably oversized.

PS
old hardened fouling left for near a century to harden can cause the same sticking case problems. The Calvary used to supply a bronze reamer-like took to scrape away BP fouling from the chamber of some breech loaders and repeaters in the field.
Multi gunner has your answer. What he said!

[pablom]

Do a chamber cast, I had or have the same problem. I got shistered. The chamber has a ring. Now I have a new barrel and cant seem to find anyone who wants to install it.

[badgeredd]

Well fellas, I did try to form 348 brass into 43 Spanish. I'll say it CAN be done, but not by me. I started with 10 cases and finally ended up with 5 usable cases. Notice I said usable, they aren't very pretty and it is way too hard to do with my equipment. I admit defeat.

I found a good used barrel on GunBroker and replaced the original. Now it's a shootable weapon again. Thanks to all for their assistance and suggestions.

Edd

[Yellowhouse]

I just took a look at www.grafs.com and they still list having Jamison 44-77 brass in stock. A quick trip through a FL die would do the trick. But I wouldn't tarry either as this caliber is becoming a hot number to have.

[badgeredd]

I just took a look at www.grafs.com and they still list having Jamison 44-77 brass in stock. A quick trip through a FL die would do the trick. But I wouldn't tarry either as this caliber is becoming a hot number to have.

Thanks...but it is all gone. I did pick up some Jamison 43 Spanish a few months ago. Dang stuff is expensive, but it was better priced than Bertram. Unfortunately, Bertram is now the only supplier so you know where prices will go.

Edd