Gunshow find

[Greg in Malad]

http://i818.photobucket.com/albums/zz110/greginmalad/100_0505.jpg
Stopped at the gunshow today looking for a muzzleloader, this is what I found.
A new, in the box, T/C pennsylvania match rifle. I asked "how much", he said "whatever is marked on the box". The price tag said $330, I took it. I have never seen this model before, does anybody else have one?

[mooman76]

They are constantly making up different models of MLs. Some never exhisted and some are modified copies. If it makes you happy then who cares. It does look like it has a nice set of sites on it.

[Greg in Malad]

The catalog in the box is dated '96. I googled pennsylvania match rifle and found no information. It does have nice sights, and a good trigger too. I thought it was intresting that the hooked breech is glass bedded. It should shoot good.

[stubshaft]

Great find!

It is definitely not a common T/C muzzleloader. It may have some collector value to it and you may want to contact the TCarms collector assn. I have been shooting T/C's since the mid-seventies and although I have seen the Pennsylvania Hunters I have never seen a target model with peep sights. If it is a .50cal it should have a 1 in 66" twist for RB.

[DwarvenChef]

I've seen a few over the years and played with one in Fairbanks AK, never shot one.

Great find :)

[northmn]

It appears to be the TC Pennsylvania Hunter with peep sights. It is not an equivalent to a Gibbs but more a round ball/maxi ball shooter. I do not remember if the PH had the same 1-48 combo twist as the Hawken, but it should not matter as the Hawken could be made to shoot pretty fair. Kind of an interesting rifle as most Rondy's would not allow it for target matches etc. due to the sights. Still should be able to get about the most out of the rifle that its capable of. Should be a fun gun. Enjoy it. Check the lock, as some TC's did have a sear screw for trigger pull asjustment. I think they were a set screw placed in the full cock notch on the tumbler.

Northmn

[DeadWood]

It was offered in 97 still. I have T/C catalog 23.

"NEW! Pennsylvania Match Rifle"
A.50 Caliber Cap Lock Rifle featuring a 1 in 66" RB Barrel and Target Sights"

I say you got a good deal! considering what the price of tang peep sights and globe front sights cost to add. I just put a T/C tang on my Hawken and love it. Only shot a few RB's through it so far, waiting on the weather to get better.

"Note: Round Ball barrels not recommended for conical bullets"

[Greg in Malad]

I need some help with this one. I shot it today, and half the patches were shredded. The other half were in great shape, could have loaded them again. I was using a tight weave cotton fabric soaked in melted White Label BPCR lube. The accuracy was pretty bad, about 6" at 50 yds. They loaded snug, not loose, but they didnt need a hammer either. I have shot a bunch of black powder with conicals, but very few round balls. Any ideas?

[wills]

http://www.tradrag.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1806

Constant also showed a very fine tiger maple Queen Anne oval top dining table with a plain frieze and cabriole legs, probably Rhode Island; a walnut Chippendale side chair with the Philadelphia signature Gothic back, circa 1760–1775, and a scarce Pennsylvania match rifle with maker's initials on the barrel, Ketland & Co, Birmingham, England. http://antiquesandthearts.com/Antiques/AntiquesShows/2008-06-17__12-49-52.html

[waksupi]

Greg, the new barrel may just have sharp tooling marks yet. Lapping with some valve grinding compound may help. Saturate your patches, shoot about 10-15 grains. Clean between shots. Usually about 15 will do it.
What is the twist?

[mooman76]

I agree with waksupi. You can hand lap it some or fire lap it like waksupi said or just keep shooting it and it should wear in after 50-100 rounds. Accuracy should go up as it gets broke in. You might need a slightly tighter patch.

[Greg in Malad]

Thanks Wills, that's a neat forum, kinda fits me.
Waksupi, it has a 66" twist. I used 600 grit lapping compound with a jag and patch before I shot it, It must have more burrs. I will saturate the patches with lapping compound next weekend. What had me confused is one patch would be in good shape and the next one was in shreds. Looks like it needs more shooting.

[waksupi]

Thanks Wills, that's a neat forum, kinda fits me.
Waksupi, it has a 66" twist. I used 600 grit lapping compound with a jag and patch before I shot it, It must have more burrs. I will saturate the patches with lapping compound next weekend. What had me confused is one patch would be in good shape and the next one was in shreds. Looks like it needs more shooting.

Greg, another thought. Check to be sure all your round balls are the same diameter.
Swab your bore between shots, and see if that helps.

[10 ga]

You are on the way to getting it tuned in. I have used valve grinding compound and Comet and Bon Ami type cleanser. Usually takes a couple of sessions to get it smoothed out. What load are you shooting? What kind of powder? For break in sessions heavy loads arn't needed. I'd suggest something in the 50 to 65 gr. of FF. What kind of patches are you using on the balls? I use pillow ticking or linen when I can find it. A ML type lube might be better or try some without lube. Without lube will be more of an indicator of the status of your bore. When you clean use a brass brush and use it full barrel length. It will help polish the bore too. If you start out with shooting 5 shot group and then a thorough cleaning and polishing then another 5 shot group, very soon the barrel should settle in and give you consistent accuracy. One of my hunting/shooting buddies has a standard PA Hunter and it is very accurate with 85 gr of FFF Swiss and .485RB in a heavy patch. Please give an update as that gun should eventually shoot real good. 10 ga

[OBCoal]

Greg,I bought one new when they first came out, its a real shooter. Try .015 pillow ticking, .495 round ball and 65grs of 2f and use the lube spairingly. You got a good deal on the rifle, as I paid 350.00 way back when. If you what to use a conical try the lee 250gr real bullet with a felt wad, it shoots good out of the PA.

[DwarvenChef]

I remember getting my first ML, my main user TC Hawken, and it shot lousy, same touble. As I was not able to find much info at the time I had to rely on my boss's advice. He is a great gunsmith but not big on BP haha. I had him order every BP book available, early 80's, but I couldn't wait for them. I went to the range with 5 lbs of 2F Goex and 5 boxes of roundballs... By the end of the day I was all kinds of dirty and the rifle was broke in... and still has some of the scars to this day haha...

Great advice here :) For my new guns I use a tight patch and MAAS, Super shiny bores :)

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Those sights look like they should help get that smokepole shooting straight.
But like all muzzleloaders (and cartrige) it will be the consitent loading techniques that help find that perfect load.

[Hanshi]

The advice in the previous posts is spot on. I'll add that using an over powder wad will help give uniform ballistics, protect the patch and prevent powder contamination from the lube. There are many good lubes around (bought and in your pantry) and the simplest is usually the best. Ockham's Razor is sharp.

[Greg in Malad]

Well, after a good scrubbing with lapping compound, my 50 yard groups went from 6" to 1.5". This rifle prefers Goex FFF, 50 grains with a .015 patch shoots 1.5" which is a good start. Thanks for the help.

[TCLouis]

The accuracy was pretty bad, about 6" at 50 yds.

Offhand, benched?

Benched, how were bags set?

What were the different loads that gave you these groups.

FFG or FFFG

BP or some substitute?

Since it sounds like that balls may be less than consistent in diameter, it is possibly part of the problem with grouping.

[Greg in Malad]

Sorry, me no got no good grammar.
What I meant to say is that before I lapped the barrel every load shot around 6" groups. After lapping the barrel the same loads shot around 1.5" groups, give or take a bit. The problem was the sharp edges on the rifling, shredding the patches. The wind was blowing pretty hard today so I didn't try 100 yds, maybe tomorrow.