Here's a newbie question...

[geargnasher]

I've been at this casting/reloading thing for almost 20 years, but haven't made the leap to full-on progressive yet. Just got a Lee 4-hole turret last year, absolutely love the thing once I made a powder measure riser tall enough for my liking and got the primer feed kits. Now, I'm looking for a progressive to load .38 spl. and .357 Magnum with, and possibly .45 colt for both revolvers and leverguns with tube-feed.

The question is: Do I get a Loadmaster or a Pro-1000? I'd much rather have the cheaper, simpler P1000, but it only has three stations, and I like to seat/crimp in two separate operations with my ammo, so I'm stuck buying a Loadmaster, right?

Or.............does anyone here seat/crimp revolver boolits in one step for dual purpose loads? If so would you mind sharing your technique? I'm using mostly Lyman "cowboy" boolits with BB and super-deep crimp groove.

Gear

[Southern Son]

I had a Loadmaster (still have it here somewhere). When it runs, it is as good or better than some of teh others. But the primer feed is made of plastic, and when a tiny little bit of **** gets into the slider, then instead of just not feeding a primer till you clear the bit of ****, the primer feed mechinism breaks. Proponents of the LM say that you can keep spare parts on hand because they are so cheap, but I have had a Dillon 550b for more than 15 years, and ALL parts on it are original (Well, I added a case feeder to it, but other than that, it's original). How much more expensive is a Dillon Square Deal?

[geargnasher]

Thanks, but no. I should have mentioned that I have no interest in ever owning a Dillon SD. I despise primer pick-up tubes, proprietary dies, and general lack of interchangeability, plus, I would have to buy three or four die sets to make it useful.

If you don't like your Loadmaster, why don't you make me an offer on it? PM if interested.

Gear

[Recluse]

Gear,

For my .38 Special loads, I use a roll crimp--and I seat and crimp in one step on the Pro1000. Been loading them this way for over 70,000 rounds and 25 years without a problem.

But for that Pro1000, I have a separate 3-hole turret with dies adjusted specifically for each type of boolit I load for the .38. Ie, a turret/die set for my 158 gr SWC loads, a turret/die set for my 148 WC, one for my 105SWC, etc.

It took some doing to get the seating and crimping combination down exactly perfect and the way I wanted it and preferred it--so it just made more sense to pick up some extra turrets and sets of dies, get them set and adjusted for each individual boolit (the sizing/decapping, and neck-flaring ones are no big deal, but I use the Lee die sets for my .38 stuff so I just get the three-die sets).

Sure makes changing boolits within the caliber easy, fast and hassle free. Also keeps me from needing a fourth station as well as a factory crimp die for that caliber.

For all other calibers, be they progressive or single stage, I adjust the dies as needed and when I need a crimp, I do it in a separate step after seating.

:coffee:

[7of7]

Thanks, but no. I should have mentioned that I have no interest in ever owning a Dillon SD. I despise primer pick-up tubes, proprietary dies, and general lack of interchangeability, plus, I would have to buy three or four die sets to make it useful.

If you don't like your Loadmaster, why don't you make me an offer on it? PM if interested.

Gear

I have a Dillon 550B, and I use hornady dies. The nice thing with that setup is I don't remove the dies, I remove the entire tool head, complete with the powder measure.
One of my friends uses a different powder for the 45 ACP, and all I do is swap out the powder bars...
Noting that you despise primer pickup tubes, you can always hand prime the brass, and not worry about primer pickup tubes, but that would negate about half the reason of a progressive...
I didn't think Dillon dies were proprietary... I always looked at them as having different features that made them easier to work with when using their equipment.. I have used Dillon dies on my rockchucker press...

[AZ-Stew]

I seat and crimp in one step for 8 of the 11 calibers I load for with my Dillon 550, using Lyman Carbide die sets. The other three use the Dillon dies that seat and crimp separately. All three are auto-pistol cartridges that taper crimp. There are several other threads around here somewhere that tell you how to set up a seat/roll-crimp die to operate in one step.

Basically, set the die to the proper seating depth first, with NO crimp. Then, back off the seating stem so it can't possibly touch the boolit while you adjust the crimp part of the die to crimp the brass into the appropriate groove on your boolit. Then, screw the seating stem back in to touch the boolit. Lock all settings and you're good to go.

Regards,

Stew

[geargnasher]

I have a Dillon 550B, and I use hornady dies. The nice thing with that setup is I don't remove the dies, I remove the entire tool head, complete with the powder measure.
One of my friends uses a different powder for the 45 ACP, and all I do is swap out the powder bars...
Noting that you despise primer pickup tubes, you can always hand prime the brass, and not worry about primer pickup tubes, but that would negate about half the reason of a progressive...
I didn't think Dillon dies were proprietary... I always looked at them as having different features that made them easier to work with when using their equipment.. I have used Dillon dies on my rockchucker press...

Only the Square Deal dies are proprietary. I have two hand primers already, both collecting dust. I'm sure the 550B is a fine press, but for the money I could by Loadmaster complete kits in three calibers and never change shellplates.

I've done the math and I'm really leaning toward theh Pro1000, I can get a .38/357 complete kit, large primer kit, zbar and plate for .45 acp, plate for .45 Colt, and three extra die plates and extra small parts for just over $200 plus shipping, for that kind of speed I can post crimp in a single stage if need be.

Recluse, how do you seat/crimp those .38s? Do you turn the edge of the brass just flush under the nose band, or try to crimp further down toward the base of the crimp groove? Problem I have is if I do the first, it works fine in leverguns but the boolit creeps forward in revolvers sometimes. If I roll the brass into the crimp groove lower on the crimp groove, (which is hard to do in one operation) then they hold under recoil in pistols but the rifles tend to set the boolit back against the nose band again. ARGH. That's why I like the 4-hole turret, does everything I could ask.

Thanks for the input,

Gear

[geargnasher]

I seat and crimp in one step for 8 of the 11 calibers I load for with my Dillon 550, using Lyman Carbide die sets. The other three use the Dillon dies that seat and crimp separately. All three are auto-pistol cartridges that taper crimp. There are several other threads around here somewhere that tell you how to set up a seat/roll-crimp die to operate in one step.

Basically, set the die to the proper seating depth first, with NO crimp. Then, back off the seating stem so it can't possibly touch the boolit while you adjust the crimp part of the die to crimp the brass into the appropriate groove on your boolit. Then, screw the seating stem back in to touch the boolit. Lock all settings and you're good to go.

Regards,

Stew

I know, but it seems I always get a gap under the crimp because the boolit is pushing away from the crimp as it's being formed. I guess it depends on the die, some dies have a steeper crimp ledge than others and roll "faster" versus seating movement so would work ok with one step.

I'll have to do some more 'spearmentin' since I quit the one-step process many moons ago and have different dies now.

Gear

[deerslayer]

I've done the math and I'm really leaning toward theh Pro1000, I can get a .38/357 complete kit, large primer kit, zbar and plate for .45 acp, plate for .45 Colt, and three extra die plates and extra small parts for just over $200 plus shipping, for that kind of speed I can post crimp in a single stage if need be.


FYI Lee recomends that you get an extra carrier for changing from small to large primer on the pro 1000 for the money it costs I do it the hard way and it takes two extra minutes and saves $50.

[geargnasher]

Thanks for the tip, Deerslayer, I was considering and extra carrier anyway, but I thought I'd see what it looks like before spending for an extra up front.

BTW, I'm curious if anyone knows, will the classic cast turret press work as a foundation for the Pro1000? I know the index rod and possibly index ratchet housing would need to be changed from square to hex, but would the ram work or is the pro1000 ram specific? The pro1000 uses the support posts as guide rods for the shellplate carrier, are these positioned differently on the classic turret vs. the pro1000?

Gear

[Recluse]

Recluse, how do you seat/crimp those .38s? Do you turn the edge of the brass just flush under the nose band, or try to crimp further down toward the base of the crimp groove? Problem I have is if I do the first, it works fine in leverguns but the boolit creeps forward in revolvers sometimes. If I roll the brass into the crimp groove lower on the crimp groove, (which is hard to do in one operation) then they hold under recoil in pistols but the rifles tend to set the boolit back against the nose band again. ARGH. That's why I like the 4-hole turret, does everything I could ask.

Thanks for the input,

Gear

There you go, making me have to think. . .

I don't shoot any wheelgun calibers out of rifles--but only because I don't have any rifles that shoot wheelgun calibers. I know, I know. . . need to change that.

BUT, I have loaded plenty for a couple of friends who do.

The short answer is, basically, it depends more on the boolit I'm loading than the gun. For my IPSC round-nose boolits, I used a moderate roll crimp in the crimp groove.

For my TL158SWC boolits, I use a rather stout roll crimp in the crimp groove. Ain't nothing gonna push it back. :) But I've used a stout crimp on my SWC boolit and load combinations for thirty years. For my "match" ammo brass, I anneal the brass every five to seven loadings which severely reduces the number of split necks/cases.

For the 105SWC, I use a light crimp in the groove. For the wadcutters, I basically make my own crimp groove with the roll crimp--and it too is a bit stout. Not so much as the SWC loads, but I'll put it like this: A kinetic boolit puller ain't gonna bang it out. If you screw up the round, toss it--you ain't getting the lead out very easy.

Likewise for my .357 Magnum stuff, which I load on a single stage as I do all of my magnum loads, I use very stout roll crimps and almost always in the crimp groove for boolits or on the cannelure for the jacketed bullets.

Same procedure and mindset for all of my .44 (Special and Magnum) stuff.

it takes a bit of adjusting and tinkering to get that seating/roll-crimp adjustment just where you want it, HOW you want it, but once it's done it holds tight and works very well and is very, very consistent. One less variable (you know MY motto about variables :))

That is why once I get the boolit seating/crimping adjust made, I do not mess with it. When I get a new boolit mold or boolit I like, I buy another three-hole turret and dedicated dies. Takes five seconds to change that turret.

I'll also mirror the excellent suggestion about getting a separate shell plate carrier for large primers versus small primer stuff.

If you end up getting that Pro1000, let me know. If you want, I'll fire up the Cessna one afternoon and help you get 'er set up and adjusted and show you a few tricks. Depending on winds, you're only about two hours from me.

:coffee:

[geargnasher]

Thanks Recluse, believe me I'd borrow my boss's 'dozer and clear a runway for you if any of my land was in the least bit flat, but the best I can offer is Louis Schreiner Field. :(

Gear