Enfield Musketoon

[jhrosier]

I just bought this critter online. It should arrive later next week.

http://images20.fotki.com/v527/photos/7/590147/8521956/enfieldmusketoon2-vi.jpg


It is a Navy Arms 1861 Enfield Musketoon, .58 caliber.

I will probably start out shooting a round ball over 45-50 grs of powder.
I'm going to look into a minie ball mould also.
Does anyone have an opinion as to which of the Lee moulds might be best for plinking and paper punching?

Jack

[stuffy25thia]

I think what you bought is a Navy Arms 1863 Zouave carbine, something that they had made. I owned one several years ago, nice shooter. Thou I could be mistaken, still a nice carbine. When you receive it, look and see what is stamped on the barrel.
The Enfield didn't have a patch box in the stock, and didn't use brass barrel bands.
I shoot a .575 roundball with a .018 patch, and 40 gr. fff. Makes a nice target load, and very accurate.

[stubshaft]

Could be an 1863 but mine didn't have the color casehardened lock. Either way it is a good looking carbine.

I used to like the improved minie. Doesn't look period but I also shot it out of one of my eyetalian repro's and it was devestating on hogs. Did real well on paper too.

[Hellgate]

You lose very little power with the shorter barrel and you gain a great amount of portability and easy handling. It looks like a Zouave to me but shorter. The 'toon has a straighter stock, longer ramrod and no patch box. I like the short barelled carbines especially in and around vehicles. The long toms are awkward and need to be in the back of the rig whereas the carbines can literally ride shotgun with you.

See attached photo for what a Musketoon can be used for.

[mooman76]

I use the Lee copy of the original minie in my 58 Hawkin. It has kind of a slow twist but still shoots it good enough for hunting. It's more like a RB with a skirt on it.

[Hellgate]

My .58 carbine load was 90grs BP and the 577611 heavy skirted minie for elk & deer. So far, i have not recovered a minie even when the deer was hit full length diagonally.

[jhrosier]

I think what you bought is a Navy Arms 1863 Zouave carbine, something that they had made.

Oh my!
I suppose that I should have done a bit more research, rather than trusting the seller's description.

In any case, I was mostly looking for a carbine as a shooter so I guess that I got a close enough copy.


.....
I shoot a .575 roundball with a .018 patch, and 40 gr. fff. Makes a nice target load, and very accurate.That sounds like what I was considering. I have a RB mould somewherre near the bottom of my mould box. If the RB shoots well enough I will stay with it to conserve lead and keep the recoil light.
I searched to see if I could find what the rifling twist might be and it seems that 66" is often quoted. That sounds slow for a minie ball but should be just about perfect for RBs.
I have a couple of pounds of cartridge grade BP that someone donated. It might be a tad coarse for the musketoon but I will try it anyhow. I hope that the local gun shop has musket caps in stock. I gave all of mine away a few years ago when i got bored with muzzle loading.

Jack

[mooman76]

Beings 58 is so large and the larger the bore, the less twist is needed to stablize a conical and a shorter conical will stablize easier. The Lee copy of an original minie is nose heavie and I believe will stablize better. 66 is a common twist but but the larger guns quite often have a different twist. I believe mine is 60 but not sure. You can find the twist by measuing a tight ramrod. Mark it and push it in the barrel. Push it in the barrel 2'. If it turned 1/2 way around it's 1/48 and so on.

[mooman76]

I just looked up ina my Dixie Gun works catalog, (by the way if you don't have one they are very interesting for the information alone) and they show a picture of a gun almost exactly like yours except foe a few minor cosmetic differences. They are saying it is a Enfield musketoon, the carbine version of the Lee Enfield rifled musket. They also list it in a 1/48 twist.

[Hellgate]

When I bought my Zouave it was recommended to shoot the .562 ball with a patch. You might find the .570 will also work. One of the criticisms of the .58 cal rifles is the wide variation in their bore diameters. Of my 4 rifles in .58 two have larger bores than the other two. My Hawken will let the minie ball slide right out of a clean barrel but will hold in the Musketoon and the Zouave. Look at your barrel markings and see if it is made by Antonio Zoli. They have a better reputation than other makes. Their barrels are very thick and hopefully strong like their "Buffalo Hunter"sporterized version of the zouave carbine.

[jhrosier]

Thanks Hellgate.
My mould just happens to be a .562 :D

I stopped at the local gunshop and picked up a can of CCI musket caps this morning :x $8 per hundred!!! I'm going to have to venture into a higher tax bracket to afford much shooting.

Jack

[jhrosier]

Well, I got the carbine out to the range for the first time today.
I fired a dozen or so shots at 25 yards with 50 grs 1-1/2 fg powder under a .562 round ball in a .022 patch.

The shots were all about 10" high and 3" to the right in a 3-4" group.
The fouling was very bad and I had to clean after every shot.
I noticed the hammer was getting blown back onto the half cock notch sometimes.
When I removed the nipple for another look, I realized that the flash hole was at least twice as large as usual. I will have to see if anyone offers a replacement nipple with a proper sized flash hole. The gun was made by Zoli so it is likely to be some oddball metric size.

I happened to have a flask with some fffg Swiss powder in my kit so I substituted the fffg , still using 50 grs volume. The next four shots were three in one hole with one about an inch away.
I wasn't unhappy with this as I was holding below the bottom of the target to keep them all on paper.
I fired a single shot at fifty yards that was about 1-1/2 feet high and another at 100 that was about three feet high. It looks like I will have to come up with some kind of a front sight that is about 5/16" higher than the factory sight. The factory sight is a solid piece that appears to be milled with the barrel.

I know that Navy Arms has been out of business for some time, so If anyone knows who might have parts please give me a heads up.

BTW, the ramrod that came with the gun is about 3 or 4 inches shorter than the barrel so I quess that it will need a replacement also.

Nice gun though, and fun to shoot. I'm looking forward to fixing the problems and getting back out with this thing.[smilie=w:

Jack

[Hellgate]

50 grains of powder is a very modest load. Maybe someone had ignition problems and replaced the nipple or drilled out the flash hole.

I notice in your photo of the rifle that it has a shiny nipple. The two Zoli .58cal rifles I have all have a blued steel nipple. I don't believe I have ever had a blowback to half cock. Look inside the patch box on the butt stock and see if there is a spare nipple. My zouave has a spare nipple that takes a smaller non musket size cap. I don't know what size as I have never taken it out. It is threaded into the stock wood inside the box cavity. I wonder if your hammer spring has been lightened.

As a side note. I have fabricated a flash guard out of thin aluminum sheeting approx 5/8" wide by 1.25" long with a square hole cut out of one end that fits over the nipple nut. It is elliptical in shape but gets pounded into a warped shape by the hammer but still protects the wood. This little flashing prevents gas cutting of the wood just behind the nipple on the stock. I can always tell that a Zouave has been shot a lot if the wood behind the nipple is scorched. You can keep your gun looking newer by the flashing. I've also made the nipple guard out of inner tube rubber. Thin leather might work too. That is one difference in the zouave that I don't see on other muskets: there is no metal space behind the nipple to prevent the wood from getting burnt when the gun goes off.

[jhrosier]

Hellgate,
The rifle seemed to be unfired when I got it.
Both of the nipples are blued, one is for a #11 cap and the other for the musket cap.
Both have very large flash holes and the unused one has bluing remaining inside the flash hole so it is probably as it left the factory.
The mainspring seems a little light to me.
I will remove the lock and check it when I get a minute.
I expect to find it unaltered but probably with typical Italian lack of attention to proper hardening.
I think that it is probably heavy enough to keep the hammer seated with a normal sized flash hole though.
I noticed the charring of the wood when I cleaned the gun this evening.
I might bend a small piece of thin brass shim to keep it from getting any worse.

Jack

[Hellgate]

That'll do (brass, aluminum, whatever is handy and flat that won't burn). I trimmed the edges to a rounded shape so it doesn't catch on things.

[stuffy25thia]

The nipple size for your carbine is 5/16x24. Track of the Wolf sells Ampco bronze nipples, about $6.00 each. I have used them for years, they last a very long time.

As for parts, several places sell them, this is one of the better places,
http://www.lodgewood.com/
I think Dixie also sells parts.
When target shooting mine, I use 30 gr. FFF, with a .575 roundball, and .018 patch.
Have taken several 1st place with it.

[Otony]

I know that Navy Arms has been out of business for some time, so If anyone knows who might have parts please give me a heads up.

I think the folks at Navy Arms would be somewhat surprised to hear that.

http://navyarms.com/

You can easily construct a ramrod for yourself, or buy one from the folks at Track of the Wolf, where you can also purchase your replacement nipple.

Nice Zouave carbine, BTW. It is similar in size to an Enfield Musketoon, but it is NOT the same thing. It has different lock, different stock furniture and architechture. But really, for your purposes, it will do everything about the same.