Idiot's guide to breech seating

[Johnny bravo]

Hi all,
I have tried to find as much information as possible about breech seating, which I find an extremely fascinating topic. I think I understand the concept and how it is done, especially by schuetzen shooters. However, I am still not convinced that I know the correct way to go about it.

I would like to try breech seating using my 45-70 Pedersoli Sharps and PP bullets. All your input would be extremely appreciated, especially if you can include some pictures of the tools and accessories used:bigsmyl2:.

Thank you.

Regards,
Krish

[BerdanIII]

Depending on bullet fit in the throat, all you might need is a plugged case to seat the bullet. Take an empty case (a range pickup would be great; no sense in using your carefully-prepared brass) and put a dowel or brass rod of the proper diameter in it. Trim the dowel or rod so that it seats the bullet to the depth in the leade that you want. The old-tyme Schuetzen shooters seemed to like 1/16" ahead of the case mouth. A trim die would be good here so you can make sure the end of the rod is flat. To use, drop the bullet into the chamber, chamber the plugged case to seat the bullet. Eject the plugged case and chamber the primed, charged case and blaze away. I have done this with an SMLE and when the weather improves, I'm going to give it another whirl.

A tight-fitting bullet may need more oomph to seat than you can get with this method and may require a pusher of some sort. You might check the American Single Shot Rifle Association (ASSRA) website for ideas on tools. I have seen some seaters that were just a brass rod with handle and a stop collar for seating to proper depth.

Let us know how it goes.

[calaloo]

You will probably need a mechanical breech seater. If the chamber is not cut for breech seating and the bullet is not tapered it would be extremely difficult to seat the bullet without one. There are a few rifles that have a camming action when the breech is closed that can use a plugged case but, even then, the bullet must fit into the throat pretty deeply.

The best breech seaters are made by Russ Weber. You may contact him by phone at 970-931-2836 or by email at russweber at juno dot com. Fix the email address. His seaters are extremely well made and almost a work of art. Just remember, quality is not cheap.

If you go to the ASSRA forum and search for breech seaters you will find photos and plenty of information.

[Johnny bravo]

Thank you gents for your kind replies.

[Lead pot]

Do a search here on "breach seating". I have made several posts about this subject.
You don't need special chambers or one particular bullet diameter patched or lube grooved.

[218bee]

Dumb question.....how does one keep the powder from falling out of case. I know most Scheutzen guys use small charges of powder

[John Boy]

how does one keep the powder from falling out of case.
A wad

[August]

There's a guy at the range pretty regularly who has an actual Harry Pope set up. Highwall with a special cut in the breech block channel to allow the breech seating tool to lever against when seating the bullet. I've watched him, and it looks like it takes a bit of effort to get the bullet down in the pipe. His cases are charged and the charge is covered with an over powder wad (Walter's Wad).

So, I'm guessing their is some air space in there and wonder how chamber ringing was not a regular outcome of this practice.

Guy shoots the hell out of the 200 yard x-ring with this set up, as Harry Pope did also.

[martinibelgian]

August,

Maybe, just maybe the airspace thing with BP might be an urban myth, oft repeated but never proven? FWIW, I shoot partial loads in 577-450 and the sky doesn't come down when I pull the trigger - neither do I see chamber ringing or bulged barrels. In actual fact, it was even advised back then by the likes of W. W. Greener (the use of partial loads) when the correct powder wasn't available...

[Lead pot]

Here is the tool and a charged case with powder. The tool is adjustable so you can seat the bullet as deep as needed so there is no airspace between the wad and bullet base.
This tool will work with the Sharps or Highwall type receivers. I use the same tool for the .40-70 through the .50-90 Sharps. I just change the bullet holder (the case is screwed to the tool and stays with the tool.)
The bullet is a .40 caliber patched to groove diameter in this photo.

Kurt

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b302/940Leadpot/IMG_1187.jpg

[BerdanIII]

martinibelgian:

I'm with you. Ammunition companies used to load short-range cartridges for the .30-30, .303 Savage and .38-55 with light lead bullets and loose charges of black powder. An Ideal handbook from the late 1800's details gallery round ball loads for the .45-70 with greatly reduced loads of black powder and the ball seated in the case mouth. Ned Roberts wrote of using reduced black powder loads in the .38-55 and .38 Extra Long Centerfire. I have read Greener's comments, too, but lost the source. Do you have it?

Maybe there's a tipping point above which reduced loads of black powder act squirrelly until 100% load density is reached but loads below that point are safe. I doubt that all those old Schuetzen shooters would have jeopardized their prized rifles with loads known to ring chambers and barrels.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

umm The 30-30 was never a black Powder Cartridge.

KW
TheLunger

[martinibelgian]

Berdan,

I'd rather think it's the reverse - no issues from 100% density to a certain point downwards, and then it could get iffy. Personally, I try to keep the case at least 70% full with BP. Also, my wad is against the bullet base, not on the powder - although I'm not sure this is relevant.
And Greener mentioned it when discussing reloading for express rifles abroad,when the correct powder is not available and only too fine a granulation needs to be used - he actually states that a full load of too fine a powder (in express cartridges) is liable to blow up the rifle, and advises, if such powder must be used, to use only partial loads.

[BerdanIII]

martinibelgian:

I checked up on Ned Robert's reduced black powder loads and found that he used 15 grains of black and a 116-gr. bullet in the .38-55 and 15 grains of black and a roundball in the .38 Extra Long Centerfire. His normal load for the .38 Extra Long was a 160-gr. bullet with 38 grains of powder. Roundball gallery loads for the .45-70 were 4 to 10 grains of black powder depending on the distance to the target. I personally have tried the black powder short-range practice rounds for the .303 (about 10 grains of black and a 95-gr. bullet) and got fair results at 50 yards as long as the bore was cleaned with one wet and one dry patch after every 5-round group. That was too much like work and I got better results with smokeless.