Antique Ideal Multi-function Molds & Reloading Tools

[inuhbad]

Where can I find a place to find / buy those older Ideal reloading & casting tools?

I think they were made in the late 1880's and around the turn of the century... Like the old Ideal #4 or #8 tool with Mold Block, sizing/lubing opening, and capping/loading all in one Pliers-style tool?

I've been searching high & low for one of those in 45-70 with a bullet mold block too... Can't seem to find one.

Does anybody know of a website where you can find/purchase them?

Every now & then I'll see one at a gunshow in other calibers like .32-20, .44-40, etc., but I can't ever seem to find one in 45-70.

Know of any potential sources?

[totallycustom]

It would be cool if they made those again. Compact all in one tool. I would love one too but I think you just have to keep and eye out on Ebay and Gunbroker, etc.

[beagle]

You'll have to keep watching the auction sites and also look at the Antique Reloading Tools site

http://www.antiquereloadingtools.com/

Someone on there may have one for sale or trade.

With the renewed popularity of the .45/70, most have been scarfed up, especially by the BPCR shooters who are hunting authenticity.

Those tools are neat but a PITA to cast with as the handles get very hot. Great idea as far as portability but not so great in practice./beagle

[Tom Trevor]

Beagle, The Antique reloading tool site now requires that you buy a membership in their group before you are allowed to get on the site. I think that will slow the group down quite a bit.

[Green Frog]

Quote: Those tools are neat but a PITA to cast with as the handles get very hot. Great idea as far as portability but not so great in practice./beagle

+1 to Beagle! I know of very few folks who actively cast with one of these contraptions, although they do look good with the gun in a case or display. I still use the tong tools a fair bit, but would only use an iron handled bullet mould in sheer desperation! [smilie=w: BTW, if you want one and don't want to travel to lots of gun shows, FleaBay still lets those tools on (and they show up occasionally as Ideal under reloading for search words.):coffeecom You might also put a WTB on this board.

Tom Trevor, I agree with your assessment of the situation on the Antique Reloading Tool Forum... I wonder just what they are really hoping to accomplish by taking an action that has to have severely curtailed their traffic. :rolleyes: Oh well, collectors of any sort are by nature a breed apart! :veryconfu

Froggie

[Catshooter]

Yes, the Antique Reloading Tool site was nice, but not much traffic. Now that you need to pay to join, well. I can't imagine that does anything but slow them down even further.

I for one decided not to pay the fee to see a little traffic grow less.


Cat

[Springfield]

I've got a very nice one in 45-70. I can send a pic to anyone interested. The mould isn't perfect but it is certainly usable. Even has the primer remover tool.

[Bent Ramrod]

Everybody ought to cast a few boolits in a #1, #4 or #6 Ideal tool to see what the old timers had to put up with. "There were giants on the earth in those days.":mrgreen:

[notenoughguns]

I've got a very nice one in 45-70. I can send a pic to anyone interested. The mould isn't perfect but it is certainly usable. Even has the primer remover tool.

I might be interested in the tool if the price is right .

[KCSO]

I have a few and I am connected with a big collector of them. Remember those tools do NOT resize the cases so they work with only the gun you fired the case in. The bullets were held in place by the compressed BLACK powder and a crimp. If you want to reload with them, say for camp use or such, you might be better off with a 310 tool that at least neck sizes. I have a tool for my 45-70 and one for 45 colt and 38 Smith and Wesson. All are in good enough shape to actually reload and cast bullets and i do use them with BLACK powder. With smokless I wouldn't want to put the rounds in a tube magazine because of the lack of neck tension and the light crimp. The piece I wrote fot the Shootist on using them if I remember right from start to fiish a box of 50 cartridges took 4 hours over 2 days, casting at nigth on a wood stove and pan lubing . The nezt night finishing the process. I used heavy leather gloves to finish casting the 64 bullets that weeded out to 50 finished bullets.

[Springfield]

I have cast with my 45-70, 44-40, 45 colt and 38-55 tools. They are hard to keep hot as the handles act as heat sinks, but it can be done. Never actually loaded a compete round in them. They are pretty cool looking sitting on my old loading tools shelf, though. My 45-70 tool has a dent on the top, which would be the bottom of the bullet, but it looks worse than it is. The bullets come out OK, especially after resizing, but it certainly wouldn't be good enough for BPCR type stuff. You can see the little divot on the base of the bullet. Mine aren't technically for sale, but I might if someone offered some rediculous amount for them!

[notenoughguns]

Nice piece of history there , if it could only talk .

[Dean D.]

Here is a picture of my Ideal #4 in .45 Colt. This tool was owned by an old friend of my Dad's family. You can see his solution to the heat problem. The handles are wrapped in multiple strips of denim and secured with rawhide lacing. I have used this tool very often and can cast comfortably with it for hours.

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j36/condercliffjumper/Reloading/Ideal4.jpg

[inuhbad]

Wow! Those really ARE beautiful! :)

As much as I want one of these, I guess I'll have to keep waiting & looking for one at a decent price... Or else just get the Lyman 310!

[Green Frog]

+1 to KCSO! I lucked into a set of post WW II cast iron handles intended (and marked) for .45-70, still in the box with a complete set of the then current 310 dies. :drinks: Have happily loaded many rounds on this set as well as a TruLine Jr with an original set of dies for it. Since I have 3 or 4 moulds for .45-70 bullets of various weights, I've never felt the need to have that extra weight hanging out on the end of my loading tools, nor to get them hot enough to cast with!! :cbpour: I have done the same for my .32-40. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!! :bigsmyl2:

Froggie

[Hank10]

I had one of these in 44/40, a friend has it now, but the unique thing about it was the mold attached to two prongs with screws just like on the Lyman mold handles . The mold was removable and any other lyman mold could be attached to replace it. Wasn't something that someone jury rigged, was a factory job but never saw another like that, also never saw one pictured in any of their loading manuals and I have most of those since the 1920s.
H10

[Catshooter]

Hank,

Some pictures of that Ideal tool and especially the mould attachment area would be very much appreciated by many here, if you could.

Thanks.


Cat

[Bent Ramrod]

Some of the later #4 and #6 tools were made with tangs for detachable mould blocks. You don't see them very often, but they do show up occasionally.

[Hank10]

Catshooter, the person with the mold is in Cal. but I'll see if I can get a pic from him.
H10

[3006guns]

I have a number of the old Ideal tong tools, inherited from a dear friend. Most of them are in pistol calibers or the smaller Winchester calibers. He too must have had a hot handle problem as at least two of them have very non-authentic but sensible heavy plastic tubing shoved over the handles.

I've used at least one of the tools to cast, size, prime and load. They work well, just slow......perfect for around the campfire.

[dano0310]

I was wondering where I might find some instructions on how to use the above mentioned tools (Ie the reloading pliers). I have tried to use them but I am not sure how to seat the bullet. Any help would be greatly appreciated as it would be nice to be able to use them rather than just have them sitting gathering dust.
Dan

[canyon-ghost]

Lyman Cast Bullet Manual #3 has diagrams for them.

[adrians]

this is my 32.40,, it drops a .321/165grn .
pretty good for my GEW 1888 (.318,)

[Shooter]

I have 2 I use. One is .32 S&W, the other .25-20. Not bad to cast with as the bullets are small, just wear gloves.

I bought these before the prices went wild on e-Bay. They were a cheap alternative to buying a set of dies and a mold. Not any more.

[cajun shooter]

I have a very good condition Ideal #5 tool in 44-40 that is from the early years. My tool also has the decapping pin which is very rare. The reason being is that it is a loose tool and is not made into a fixed position and therefore is easy to lose. Just the decapping tool sells for $50 if you find one. I have loaded complete rounds of 44-40 to see what it was like. As every one has posted the handles become very hot but what you are forgetting is that these tools sometimes came with the rifle and was intended to be used when away from any town as a way to stay alive. They were never meant to load up a month's worth of ammo. 44-40 ammo was $15 for a 1000 rounds. A complete tool will do all the needed stages. They even have a bullet sizing hole to use.

[KCSO]

Remember these were made for B/P and do not resize the case except a little at the neck and they rely on the crimp and the case full of powder to hold the bullet in place. I did an article on using the Ideal mould in camp and I will see if I can find a copy. I loaded a box of shells in camp by lantern light using a pot on a wood stove, buckskin gloves and my full stock of patience.

[Green Frog]

KCSO, a little off-thread, but I like to use the tong tool at the bench at the range to try different loadings. I can't think of any likely scenario where I personally would want to put up with the discomfort (pain) of casting over an open fire, and even a wood stove is sort of pushing it, since I like to bottom pour. I'm obviously not one of those "giants" mentioned in a previous post, but I guess I'm pretty comfortable being one of the "little guys" that keeps on loading.

Froggie

[Savvy Jack]

Is the original tool good for loading .429 44-40s with black powder? I am to understand some have a bullet sizer that drops them at .424

I caught up between purchasing an original or the 310 tool with dies.

Come to think of it, how about the same question with the 310 die set?

[Wayne Smith]

Froggie, I grew up in Maine and with a wood burning range for some of the time. I can imagine snuggling up to a nice warm stove to cast as a very nice experience. When we were little and had spent several hours out in the snow and wet when we came in mom would put kitchen chairs in front of the oven, open the oven door and we would put our stocking feet on the oven door sitting in the chairs. I still remember that blanket of warm, dry air rolling over us.

We heated with an Ashley wood burning stove in the bedroom (ours over, with grate for hot air) and an end heater beside the wood range. It did get warm in the summer but was nice in the winter.

[Green Frog]

I was wondering where I might find some instructions on how to use the above mentioned tools (Ie the reloading pliers). I have tried to use them but I am not sure how to seat the bullet. Any help would be greatly appreciated as it would be nice to be able to use them rather than just have them sitting gathering dust.
Dan

I just noticed you had been sort of ignored with this question... sorry about that! :???:

The steps for bullet seating are actually easier to do than to describe. First you put your bullet into the case mouth with powder and primer already in place. Then, holding the bullet end up, insert the partially finished cartridge into the seating die. Squeeze the tong all the way shut and you are done. If you have one of the later tong tools with the adjustable seating die, you set the die the same way you would on a bench press... I like to use a dummy round, or set bullet depth first, then back the seater out and set the crimping depth of the die, finally bringing the bullet seater down to the proper depth and I'm done. See, I told you it was easier to do than explain! :veryconfu

Froggie

PS PM me if you need further explanation and I will be glad to provide it!:coffeecom

[Savvy Jack]

I think I will make a short video using the steps with the new 310 sets for the 44-40. I'll let ya know!

[Green Frog]

I think I will make a short video using the steps with the new 310 sets for the 44-40. I'll let ya know!

That would be great. Maybe U-toob will host something useful for a change! :brokenima

Froggie

[Savvy Jack]

Waiting to upload, back later!!

[Savvy Jack]

Here is a basic video. It does not show how to set up the dies, just the way its used.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_9-1oEbr9Q

[Green Frog]

Well done! :-D You know what they say about a picture and 1000 words, well, a good clip like that s worth several thousand pictures! Thanks for a nice service to the reloading community. :coffeecom

Froggie

[Dale53]

Savvy Jack;
That is an EXCELLENT video. Good work and entertaining all at the same time!

Dale53

[cajun shooter]

Jack, This is Fairshake but I have always went by Cajun Shooter on this forum. So if you think that those two guys post alike you know why now. I have a Ideal tool for the 44-40 and as best as I can measure with my calipers the bullet sizing hole is .425 Now it could very well go to .427 if I had the correct pin gauges to use for measurement. I have not poured any bullets to see what it drops then I will know for sure. The member that is looking for the 45-70 tool made by Ideal goes by the number 5 and was called the Armory Tool. He should also check out old loading tools on Flea Bay. If you look in the front of the Lyman Reloading Handbook 46th edition, it shows all the old tools and their history.

[Savvy Jack]

Jack, This is Fairshake but I have always went by Cajun Shooter on this forum. So if you think that those two guys post alike you know why now. I have a Ideal tool for the 44-40 and as best as I can measure with my calipers the bullet sizing hole is .425 Now it could very well go to .427 if I had the correct pin gauges to use for measurement. I have not poured any bullets to see what it drops then I will know for sure. The member that is looking for the 45-70 tool made by Ideal goes by the number 5 and was called the Armory Tool. He should also check out old loading tools on Flea Bay. If you look in the front of the Lyman Reloading Handbook 46th edition, it shows all the old tools and their history.

Thats what I was wondering. Thanks FS

[Trapper458]

Hi All,
I found a Ideal Mould and reloading tool (maybe a #4?)on EBay for a decent price, took it out to cast some bullets, it worked OK. I used a pair of heavy gloves and cast with Linotype lead and kept the lead pretty hot, about 600 degrees and it worked out fine, I started out with some improvised handle wraps made of old kitchen hot pads, but found with the gloves on I really didn't need them, maybe because the bullet is so small. They cast about 83 grs., I lubed them with LLA and ran them thru the sizer on the tool, they came out about .259. I used the tool to seat and crimp some bullets and it worked well, I had new brass so I ran it thru my resizing die and belled the neck on my press. The only thing missing is the decapping rod, I hope to improvise with the shaft from a Lee case trimming tool, have one ordered. Now off to the range with my Remington Model 25.
Regards,
Trapper

http://inlinethumb33.webshots.com/20576/2679906640101957575S600x600Q85.jpg (http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2679906640101957575baDUos)
http://inlinethumb07.webshots.com/45638/2480360230101957575S600x600Q85.jpg (http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2480360230101957575pCXgyd)
http://inlinethumb49.webshots.com/45680/2652489240101957575S600x600Q85.jpg (http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2652489240101957575CXnmWB)

[scrapcan]

The thing that is almost always missing for these tools is the decap punch that goes in the seating chamber. If you buy one make sure you have a way to decap. I have seen lots of people ask how the heck to I get the spent primer out, when it would be obvious if the primer punch were present. It is a seperate piece and gets lost.

[Trapper458]

Hey All,
I received the Lee case length guage, and with a small adjustment to the overall length it seems to work fine in the Ideal tool. I filed off a bit of the end of the decapping pin to decrease overall length, although I would think filing off a bit of the threaded end would have the same result. One concern I did have is that the shaft part is not long enough to support the case mouth and I feared it may start to crimp when pushed in, but that does not seem to be the case.
Regards,
Trapper

[matrics631]

I have the 310 tool in 45 70 with the dies if you are still interested.
http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/313177_558757335187_152600384_31370193_4756604_n.j pg

[matrics631]

Hi All,
I found a Ideal Mould and reloading tool (maybe a #4?)on EBay for a decent price, took it out to cast some bullets, it worked OK. I used a pair of heavy gloves and cast with Linotype lead and kept the lead pretty hot, about 600 degrees and it worked out fine, I started out with some improvised handle wraps made of old kitchen hot pads, but found with the gloves on I really didn't need them, maybe because the bullet is so small. They cast about 83 grs., I lubed them with LLA and ran them thru the sizer on the tool, they came out about .259. I used the tool to seat and crimp some bullets and it worked well, I had new brass so I ran it thru my resizing die and belled the neck on my press. The only thing missing is the decapping rod, I hope to improvise with the shaft from a Lee case trimming tool, have one ordered. Now off to the range with my Remington Model 25.
Regards,
Trapper

http://inlinethumb33.webshots.com/20576/2679906640101957575S600x600Q85.jpg (http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2679906640101957575baDUos)
http://inlinethumb07.webshots.com/45638/2480360230101957575S600x600Q85.jpg (http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2480360230101957575pCXgyd)
http://inlinethumb49.webshots.com/45680/2652489240101957575S600x600Q85.jpg (http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2652489240101957575CXnmWB)

How do you know what number the tool is? I have seen them with the caliber stamped on them but haven't seen any other numbers?

[adrians]

i have one in 32-40 ,i use it every now and then it drops a 165+ grn at @ .321 .
i wrapped my handles in leather, those suckers get hot:holysheep.
i use it in my gew 88's.
nice piece of history and shows the workmanship that went in to producing such tools.
have a good morning.:evil:[smilie=s::twisted:

[Bent Ramrod]

Matrics631,

The tool numbers are illustrated in the old Ideal Handbooks. The Number 1's, 2's, 4's, 6's and 8's had the bullet moulds on the ends, The 4's, for pistol and small rifle cartridges, and the 6's, for large rifle cartridges, are those most often found. Trapper458's specimen is in .25-20 Repeater, a small rifle cartridge.

[Rock]

I need to make a replacement decapping tool to go with my Ideal in 32-40. Any assistance with dimensions would be appreciated. Patent 1884 Ideal M'F'C' CO NEW HAVEN.CT USA 32-40M

[cajun shooter]

Rock, If you look on the flea-bay site you will find them from time to time. They are also found on the antique loading tool site.
When I purchased my loading tool for my 44-40 it was minus the primer decap tool.
It is my belief that many dealers remove the decap tools themselves so they may increase the profit made on the tools.
The base for my belief is that the same dealer will have both for sale but separate. The tools bring about $45-50 and the tools are over a hundred if in good condition.
Later David

[Green Frog]

I need to make a replacement decapping tool to go with my Ideal in 32-40. Any assistance with dimensions would be appreciated. Patent 1884 Ideal M'F'C' CO NEW HAVEN.CT USA 32-40M

Rock,

A couple of months ago, this same question came up, only for the .38-55. I have an Ideal .38-55 unit from a fellow member and my own Winchester .32-40 unit in hand right now, and as soon as I finish dealing with a couple of family health issues will be trying to put together dimensioned drawings of both. Drop me a PM with your e-mail and I will try to send you copies when they are available.

Regards,
Froggie

[Hang Fire]

I recently bought an Ideal 310 in .44-40 (orange box and second one I have in that caliber) But, this one had an additional die that on examining turned out to be a sizing chamber. It is stamped .327 and sizes a cast boolit to that diameter. I ran a few 200 grain .330" hand lubed boolits through butt first and it does a good job with little effort right at .327".

The sizing chamber for different calibers is one die don't see too often.

[Green Frog]

I recently bought an Ideal 310 in .44-40 (orange box and second one I have in that caliber) But, this one had an additional die that on examining turned out to be a sizing chamber. It is stamped .327 and sizes a cast boolit to that diameter. I ran a few 200 grain .330" hand lubed boolits through butt first and it does a good job with little effort right at .327".

The sizing chamber for different calibers is one die don't see too often.

H-F, Lyman used to make those sizing dies in a wide variety of sizes... probably as many as they made for the Model 45 Lubrisizer bench tool. It would have been more likely someone was using a proper sized die of .427 or so with your .44-40 set, but I'm guessing the sizing dies were switched or somebody along the way just had that die they weren't using and threw it in the nearest box of small dies. Many years ago I gathered up as many of this type of sizing dies as I could find for calibers I shoot, but to be honest I never used them much if at all. Looks like they would work well with a TruLine Jr press, though! :mrgreen:

Froggie