powder buy

[krag35]

I have been pondering a powder buy, Natchez has $10.00 off of their hazmat charge and are the cheapest on the powders I am considering. I want all the versatility I can get out of 3 powders, unique, Blue Dot, and Aac 2520.

I have loads for Aac 2520 for my rifles and that's 1/2 of the 4 keg order.

Unique is well UNIQUE and works well in just about everything.

That leaves Blue Dot. It seems to be the thing in heavy 20, 12, and 10 gauge loads. It is also a contender in 357 and 44 mag loads with heavy bullets. Does anyone have any loads or advice for Blue Dot in 223, 30-30, and 444 Marlin?

Any suggestions on Milsurp powders that will do the same thing as the above 3 listed powders?

I tend to experiment until I find what works, then I quit experimenting and just shoot. I have steered away from the milsurp powders because of this (lot to lot variations)

TIA
krag35

[felix]

Krag, your desires are noteworthy. If you are looking for lot-to-lot consistency as the number one criteria, I can recommend only the V-V powders. They have any powder speed you can possibly use, with the one exception that everyone else has. The burn speed hole that is wide open is right smack between BlueDot and 2400. Be that as it may, Just buy any speed your heart desires, but do so in quantity and specify the same lot. This is the cheapest way out by far. Naturally, the cheapest will be the surplus market. ... felix

[Catshooter]

Krag,

I too have been considering a powder buy.

Surplus, for the money.

My thought on lot to lot consistancy was to buy a bunch, then pour 'em all into a five gallon bucket and mix to get just one burn rate. Like, with 820.

Am I nuts, or onto something?


Cat

[454PB]

I usually buy in bulk, and request that all containers have the same lot number.

[Lloyd Smale]

I usually buy surplus in 6 keg batches that way your about sure to get a bunch out of one batch. Plus they will usually wave hazmat charges if you buy 6.

[Newtire]

I have been pondering a powder buy, Natchez has $10.00 off of their hazmat charge and are the cheapest on the powders I am considering. I want all the versatility I can get out of 3 powders, unique, Blue Dot, and Aac 2520.

I have loads for Aac 2520 for my rifles and that's 1/2 of the 4 keg order.

Unique is well UNIQUE and works well in just about everything.

That leaves Blue Dot. It seems to be the thing in heavy 20, 12, and 10 gauge loads. It is also a contender in 357 and 44 mag loads with heavy bullets. Does anyone have any loads or advice for Blue Dot in 223, 30-30, and 444 Marlin?

Any suggestions on Milsurp powders that will do the same thing as the above 3 listed powders?

I tend to experiment until I find what works, then I quit experimenting and just shoot. I have steered away from the milsurp powders because of this (lot to lot variations)

TIA
krag35
Hi Krag 35,
Have some loads for BlueDot that worked great for me.
30-30:10.5 gr. and Lee SoupCan.
.44 mag.:12 gr. and 240 Lead (any)
.444, send e-mail addy and will send you word doc. with .444 BueDot loads.

[krag35]

Thanks for all the replies, I have been looking over the surplus sites I have and giving it a second thought. I have never bought or used surplus powders, so if anyone sees any glaring errors in my thinking, PLEASE sound off.

WC846 223 30-06 8mm 444 Claims to have the same burn rate a BLC-2. That will handle all of my full power hunting loads. Just a bit faster than the Aac 2520 I am using now. 16# That will last me a long time.

#105 38 special 44 mag 45acp 30-30 30-40 30-06 444 pl inking loads slower than Unique, faster than green dot, should work out for most shotgun loads. 20# of it will probably run out before the WC846.

That leaves magnum shotgun loads and magnum loads in the 44 mag. WC820 would work fine for the pistols, but not for the shotguns. I may keep my eyes open for a deal on Blue dot, buy 2 kegs and have a lifetime supply.

Does one need to use magnum primers with WC46 or will standard primers work? I'd like to keep that situation as simple a possible too.

TIA
krag35

[felix]

All standard primers. Isn't the 105 powder one of those hard to measure? If so, I would not consider it, especially if it is one that tends to bridge in the measure. Bridging means binding up for a big drop on the next throw. Result is uneven charges. Might want to consider using BlueDot for these loads also. ... felix

[krag35]

felix;

It didn't say anything about being difficult to measure. It does say #107 wouldn't work through a powder measure though. thanks for the note about all standard primers. I have a sleeve or two of magnums around for H110 and won't be missing them .
krag35

[woody1]

FWIW 20" barrel #
Rifle boolit powder grains shots velocity
m94 mod 311041 @ .310 win case wlr WC846 30.0 6 2,075 22-Mar-2006 temp about 45
m94 mod 311041 @ .310 win case wlr WC846 31.0 4 2,145 22-Mar-2006 temp about 45
m94 mod 311041 @ .310 win case wlr WW748 31.0 2 1,979 22-Mar-2006 temp about 45
m94 mod 311041 @ .310 win case wlr H335 30.0 4 2,157 22-Mar-2006 temp about 45
Well, this isn't printing out very well, but maybe you can figure it out.
Regards, Woody

[45nut]

Are any of these true H 335 equivalent powders? And or RL 7? I need to get in this buy .....

[9.3X62AL]

Felix, help me out here.......WC-844 is VERY close to H-335 and is the "spec" powder for both M-193 and current 5.56 x 45 (223) service rounds. WC-846 is closest to B-LC-2, and was the "spec" powder for the 7.62 x 51 (308) service rounds. WW-748 is very close to both of these surplus numbers, and has been my "go-to" powder for j-word loads in 223, 30-30, and 308 since about forever. Like the rest of you guys in this thread, I'm planning a surpfuel order in the near future, and WC-844 will be a part of that for the j-words in 223 and 30-30. Some WC-680 for the 25-20 and 32-20 rifles will be added, and some "filler with attitude" (WC-860) for the 45-70 and others is just too cheap to not buy.

A previous Tuesday's bit with 535 grain Postells in the 45-70 atop 6.0 x 4198/44.0 x WC-860 showed that the WC-860 responds well to heavy boolits, making the jump from "filler with attitude" to propellant--and announcing the promotion with a pretty hefty recoil impulse. Not much fun from the bench, but not bad standing on yer hind legs--and the loads ROCKED the 200m dinger plate when I did the right things.

[felix]

Al, you are on par with your choices. H335 is equivalent to WC844, but each varies lot-by-lot and interchange in burn speed often. If fact, some WC846 lots will also interchange in speed with lots of WC844. Keep in mind not all of these powder lots are stored in the same ambients, and variations can be expected because of this.

45nut, you are off base a little on that RL7 which is a quasi 4198 speed plus or minus depending on application. RL7 is just slightly faster than 680 in a large diameter bore, like a 45. RL7 would be safer than 680, and more accurate, when less than full charges are used. Use PSB with 680 when required and accuracy will equal RL7 at the same powder volume. In 45Colt case, use full case of either powder with heavy boolit preferred.

[Maven]

Krag, If you go over to AccurateReloading.com>Reloading and look up Blue Dot loads and/or Seafire, I think you'll find some of the info. you want. If that doesn't work, e-mail or PM him. You'll find he's most gracious.

[MT Gianni]

Krag do a search on 105 as someone here showed a picture of some they bought with about 5 different sizes of granules. Gianni.

[woody1]

Check this out re: #105
http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=6627

[drinks]

Al;
WC 860 sounds interesting, I do need to know if a magnum primer or the duplexing is necessary for a decent burn and do you have an idea of the velocity?
I have been having good results in .45-70 with 60gr or more of WC 844 with a 320gr gc, 1800-1900fps and 25gr WC 820 with a soft 405gr HB , 1200-1250 fps, no filler.

[Greg]

45nut, you are off base a little on that RL7 which is a quasi 4198 speed plus or minus depending on application. RL7 is just slightly faster than 680 in a large diameter bore, like a 45. RL7 would be safer than 680, and more accurate, when less than full charges are used. Use PSB with 680 when required and accuracy will equal RL7 at the same powder volume. In 45Colt case, use full case of either powder with heavy boolit preferred.


felix

what is PSB ?

[krag35]

Mt Gianni and woody1, thanks for the "heads up" on #105, I have crossed that mess off of my list. I'll go back and look some more. I may just go with my original idea of Aac 2520, Blue dot and Unique, pretty hard to go wrong with that mix.
thanks for all the replies, help and advice.

Maven; I used to be registered over at accurate, but it's giving me the runaround right now, will keep trying.

newtire; got the doc, thank you

krag35

[RayinNH]

Krag35, take a look at http://www.patsreloading.com/patsrel/prices.htm he carries WC 844/846 that you considered. In place of the #105 you would be well served with Scot 453 for your handgun needs. I use it. It's a fine grain powder that meters beautifully. I have data provided by Accurate for the following calibers, .38 Special, .38+P, 9MM, .357 mag., .45 ACP, .40 S&W, .38 Super, .380 ACP, and .44 Mag. For your shotgun needs Solo 1000 would fill the bill.
If you go cannister powder, give T&T Reloading a look http://216.15.64.227/

Ray

[Lloyd Smale]

pr200 is another great powder for .38s 45acps 4os ect. Its aa2 in realality. I use a ton of it.

[lar45]

I have been pondering a powder buy, Natchez has $10.00 off of their hazmat charge and are the cheapest on the powders I am considering. I want all the versatility I can get out of 3 powders, unique, Blue Dot, and Aac 2520.

That leaves Blue Dot. It seems to be the thing in heavy 20, 12, and 10 gauge loads. It is also a contender in 357 and 44 mag loads with heavy bullets. Does anyone have any loads or advice for Blue Dot in 223, 30-30, and 444 Marlin?

I tend to experiment until I find what works, then I quit experimenting and just shoot. I have steered away from the milsurp powders because of this (lot to lot variations)
TIA
krag35
http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve
Awhile back on Acurate reloading, there was a guy working up BlueDot loads for everything. He had a formula that worked well for about 90% of all rifle cartriges. If you look over there in the reloading section and do a search on BlueDot, I'm sure you could fill several pages with info. A good idea would be to copy from accurate, then paste into a word document and try to organize it by caliber or something, then you could have a BlueDot loading manual?

I find that I experiment too much and never have any ammo loaded to just go shooting.

I just bought 1000 empty 357 cases and I'm going to load maybe half with the C358-180RF, maybe the others I will do with a 158? Then I will have ammo to just go shooting.
I'm getting all my 44 mag brass together and will hopefully do the same thing. I've got a 250gn KSWC that shoots great in my Bisley with WC820. I'd like to have atleast 500 rnds loaded and ready to shoot. This is only a 2 cav mold, so it may take a couple of evenings to cast them all up.
I bought 1000 rnds of 45 colt brass from Top Hat and hope to be able to do the same for this caliber.
I have a jacketed load for the 06s that shoots sub 1" in every gun I've tried it in. A 165 Rem corelokt with 60gns RL22 for 2730fps. I bought 500 cases with a Midway head stamp on them with the thought of doing the same.

I've been thinking that I need to stockup on some mil surp powders if they are going the way of the DoDo.
I'll want 2-4 jugs of WC820 plus some others.
Do you think that the WC820 would store longer if I just put the jugs in the freezer for 10 years? Or until I shoot one jug, then pull the next out of the freezer? I've heard that powder goes bad after many years, how many?

[felix]

No, don't store in the freezer, but in a basement where it is cool, and especially where it is dark. Anyway, the light shouldn't matter when the powder is in the jug. The main thing, changing temperatures is the real enemy. Ball powders, most all, especially older ones, are double base, are much less sensitive to aging than single base powders of any configuration. Also, the higher the percentage of nitroglycerin, the better the long term storage. Powders with 25-30 percent, or above, in nitroglycerine are impervious to water. 50-100 years for a well kept double base powder, 25 years for a single base can be relied upon. ... felix

[9.3X62AL]

Drinks--

In the 45-70, I have found that duplexing is required to get half-decent combustion and not have lots of unburned powder kernels sitting in the chamber and bore after firing.

Using the Lee 405 plain base, I used 3.0 x 4198 under 48.0 x WC-860 for a 100% density load. Results were an accurate load, but still some debris left behind and velocity was only a little over 1000 FPS. I went to 6.0 x 4198 under 46.0 x WC-860, and the performance was markedly increased--1300 FPS, and almost zero bore debris. The most recent experiment was the 535 grainers atop 6.0 x 4198/44.0 x WC-860, and these were not chrono'ed. I might try that this week at the Burrito Shoot. They do announce their departure with a pretty good thump at the shoulder. Federal 215 's were the primers.

In 30-06, a full case of WC-860 (60.0 grains) gave Lyman #311291 about 2150 FPS and not much bore trash. These were decently accurate, and worth further inquiry. No duplexing tried, and WLR primers were used.

In 6.5 x 55, some recent work with Hornady 140 grainers gave almost 2500 FPS with a drop-tubed and compressed load of 55.0 grains. THAT is certainly usable, and pretty close to mil-spec performance in that caliber. The groups were decent, too. No duplexing here either. WLR primers got the call here too.

Overall, WC-860 has a pretty wide range of uses, but since it is designed to be used as 50 BMG powder it thrives in over-bore or heavy-for-caliber situations like any slow powder would. I suspect it would fare better with Lyman #311284 or #311299 than with #311291 in 30-06, but haven't tried it out to verify that supposition.

[drinks]

Al;
Thanks.