Thompson Center

[exile]

I have been trying lately to come up with a rifle for deer hunting here in Nebraska. I will probably not buy one anytime soon, I usually plan my gun purchases a year in advance, BUT,

Today, I am thinking about a Thompson Center single-shot rifle (not sure what they are called exactly, Encore, Contender or something else) in .260 Remington. My thoughts are, 6.5 bore and easy case availability [.308, .243] Anyway I would probably eventually buy a .357 magnum barrel and a .22 Hornet barrel to go with it.

My question is, according to an article I read in "Handloader" these rifles may have problems with case stretching (?) or difficulty with reloading and case life due to the fact that because of the weight of the barrel the action can sometimes be open just a little bit, at least not as tight a chamber as a bolt rifle. Does anyone have experience with this? What do you think? Thanks. :coffee:

exile

[Doc Highwall]

That caliber is available only on the Encore frame. It is a good caliber.

[two dogs]

i have one it does not stretch cases any worse than any other gun i own.just resize to fit your chamber,you wont have problems.also float the forearm. my 22-250 is going on 4000 rounds,shoots between quarter and half inch with 55 grainers all day long.

[BABore]

Single shot, hinged actions like the Encore require different loading techniques than bolt guns. Once you understand things, there are no problems with cases or accuracy If you end up getting an Encore, do some reading on this site for the skinny on loading for them

http://bellmtcs.com/store/

[wallenba]

Put an orientation mark on your cases, fireform them and just neck size them when reloading. The mark will allow you to load it the way it was originally fired. They should last a while.

[exile]

Great info, thanks guys. So if I buy an Encore frame, that would mean that the smaller calibers like the .357 magnum, .22 Hornet and .223 would be a no go with that frame, right? I would have to buy a Contender frame to shoot those smaller calibers? Of course then I could get a S & W 460 barrel, which would be cool as well.

From what I am understanding the lighter calibers are a Contender frame and the heavy calibers are the Encore, just like the pistols, correct? Or maybe they just are the same frame? I think there was a discussion earlier somewhere about needing to be careful about putting a pistol barrel (less than 18 inches) or a frame built for rifles.

Oh well, I am excited, .260 Remington and .460 S & W to start.

exile

[TaylorTN]

The contender tops out at lower pressure rounds than the Encore.

An encore will shoot everything from .17MachII up........to how big a' boy are ya?

They're unique, quirky and fun.

[stubshaft]

The Tender tops out at 45/70. It is a physically lighter weapon than the Encore which has been chambered for some of the short mags and 600NE. Like Taylor said an Encore will shoot virtually every usuable cartridge made and for the cartridges you are anticipating would be a better choice for you. For cartridges like the hornet and 357 the Contender would make a smaller and handier package. I own 4 of each and love the fact that when I want to play for a new caliber I just have to order/ buy another barrel.

[school of mines]

I used a Thompson Center Encore in .308 Win this year for deer hunting in Nebraska. I've reloaded my shells 2 times and haven't had to trim them for length yet. I am using a mild load w/165 grain hornadys. I am still working on the ideal load, but am happy with the performance!

Hope this helps!

[largom]

When buying extra barrels remember that Encore and Contender barrels DO NOT interchange. I have 3 Encore frames and a dozen barrels. If you want that 260 to really shoot firelap the barrel.

school of mines: If your 308 does'nt settle down don't be afraid to firelap it. I have firelaped all of mine and a dozen or so for customers.

Larry

[exile]

Sounds great to me guys.

exile

[leadman]

I have an Encore Pro Hunter in 7mm Rem Magnum. The chamber is long to the shoulder so cases stretch on initial firing. If a full load is used for the first shot case life is veery short. I have fire formed cases with Unique and Crem of Wheat and it helps.
Just haven't gotten around to sending it back to T/C to have the barrel replaced.

I do have 270 and 243 barrels made by Bergara for the Encore that shoot extremely well and about $100 cheaper than T/C barrels.

Before you buy it would be good for you to read the info on the website mentioned previously. Mike has alot of great info on his site about measuring and setting the dies to acheive proper headspacing.

[aaalaska]

Exile if you buy a encore frame you can purchase just about any caliber made from 22 rimfire to 416 or bigger, never checked how big , just not that big on recoil.
I have Encore frames and shoot the 260 rem in both rifle and pistol , never had any problems ,and case life seems about the same as any other weapon.
Your correct about using the frame for a rifle with a pistol barrel, that's a no no, but if you purchase a pistol frame, you can use any barrel, just no barrel under 16 1/4 with a rifle stock. My frames were sold as pistols so as long as you follow the rules you can turn them into rifles and back no problem. They are very accurate ,a little light for really heavy kickers ,unless you enjoy recoil.
I got a good aftermarket stock with good recoil pad, but max loads for the 45/70 will never be what I would call fun,
but the effect on a bear is impressive. I started with contender frames in the 70's they are fun,light, quick. The 10 in 22 is accurate enough to head shoot ptarmigan.223 will shoot better than these old eyes can see, and the 45/70 barrel with light loads [trapdoor] is plenty for moose, and black bear, maybe even the big boys but I'll carry the Encore when I figure the odds of bumping into one the them is high.
Bottom line, any of the TC's is a lot of fun, a lot of people have been shooting with me and the TC's no one has ever said they didn't like them, the big concern here with my friends is the single shoot, most want a quick back up with griz around. Good luck and enjoy.
Alex

[exile]

Again, great information. Thanks.

exile

[exile]

I just checked on the internet. Looks like complete Encore rifles are about $ 600.00 and barrels are between $ 350 and $ 400. A little more than I expected, for the barrels anyway, but what the heck, I imagine once you get started its hard to stop.

exile

[BABore]

Put an orientation mark on your cases, fireform them and just neck size them when reloading. The mark will allow you to load it the way it was originally fired. They should last a while.

That is exactly how not to load for an Encore. I know very well, because that's exactly how I used to do it.

Once upon a time I bought a Bullberry 338 Win Mag bbl for my Encore for a princely sum. I bought a Hornady die set along with a Lee collet neck size die. Starting with brand new brass, I FL sized them and went about load developement with J-boolits. I loaded up 3-round sets at 0.5 grain powder increments. IIRC I had 5 sets of 3 to test. I found a likely sweet spot in my groups and then returned home to load up additional rounds at that charge for further testing. This group was 3/4" IIRC. Wanting even more precision, I neck sized my 15 fireformed rounds and loaded them with my best grouper's charge weight. I then fired 5, 3-shot groups with this load.

Only one out of the 5 groups was even close to my original group. Most were at least twice as large. A couple had two shots touching and one way out. I was dumb founded.

I pondered this a bit and then decided to go back to square one. I again prepped 15 new cases and FL sized them. Then, I again loaded the same 5 sets of 3 with 0.5 grain powder charges. The results, almost identical to my original testing, including the sweet spot. So, bordering on insanity, thinking if I repeat myself again I will get different results, I did just that. I neck sized my 15 new FF rounds and loaded them to the exact same sweet spot. The next weekend I stapled up a new target and fired the first 3 rounds. They went into a 3 1/2" group. At the point I was just livid. After settling down, I said screw it and went about fired the remaining 12 rounds at the same target. They were going all over the place, or so it seemed. After maybe the 9th shot I started to notice something. There was a couple groups starting to form up. Two shots touching over here, two touching over there. When I was finished, I ended up with 5 separate 3-shot groups on that single target. Taken as one 15 shot group, it was about 4 1/2 inches. Taken as individual 3-shot groups, they went between 5/8 and 3/4 inches. So, what the heck happened.

At about the same time I stumbled acrossed Mike Bellm's website. He specializes in T/C's and their inhierent problems. After much reading, I made my own dial indicator headspace gauge that he sells on his site. Then I began to learn what happens to brass in a hinged breech, single shot like the T/C. I also signed up on his T/C forum and met others that also saw the light.

Because the T/C action is hinged, the distance from the hinge pin, to the breech face can stretch under pressure. The distance from the bbl end, to the frame breech face is set by the hinge pin hole and block position. There is some factory tolerance involved here. Some bbl's may have up to 0.010" gap from the breech face when the action is closed. Then you also have the chamber depth to consider. It may be shallow or too deep.

I measured my bbl to breech face gap with a feeler gauge as I had read. My bbl would close tight on a 0.0015 feeler with just a little give. That told me that I had a 0.001" gap. I then pulled the bbl and removed the extractor so I could use my new headspace dial indicator setup. My new, FL sized brass would drop right in. Some would be 0.002 to 0.003" below the end of the bbl chamber. Others would be up to 0.003" above or protruding. I then measured a bunch of fired cases that came from FL sized load developement rounds. They were still sitting in the ammo box in the sets as I had fired them. The starting load showed a protrusion of 0.005". Since I have a 0.001" bbl/BF gap, that meant that the frame had stretched 0.004 upon firing. The next 0.5 grain hotter load showed a 0.007" protrusion. These went on up in a linear fashion to my hottest load which showed a 0.012" protrusion or 0.011" frame stretch.

And in there lied my problem with neck sizing my cases. The neck sized cases, being incrementily longer due to different frame stretching points, preloaded the frame to different amounts when I used them for the same load. Had I somehow have kept them separated into the original 3 round sets, the problem wouldn't have been as evident. This also isn't as apparent when firing factory loads or handloads that are FL sized in a die capable of really FL sizing and pushing the shoulder of the case back to min dimensions.

So, what's the proper solution? I still had about 50 brand new cases left and I just ordered another 100 as well. I dropped each case into the chamber and measured the head position in relation to the bbl end. Based on my readings and prior measurementS, I knew I need to have a case that would be exactly flush with my bbl end. This would give me exactly 0.001" gap or headspace. Measured cases that protruded went into one pile, those that went below the bbl end went into another. I then set up my Hornady FL size die and set it about 0.020" off the shellholder to start with. It didn't bump the should back at all, not even close. With full shellholder contact it still wasn't even close. I resorted to turning 0.030" off of the end of the die to make it work. With some fine tuning, I got the die set so it would give an exact flush fit to my bbl and locked it in place for eternity.

By sizing cases in this fashion, my groups stayed very consistent at around 5/8 to 3/4 " for 3 shots. Before you pooh poo the 3-shot group thing, remember, this is a 338 Win Mag hunting rifle firing 250 grain bullets at 2,600 -2,700 fps. Not being 100% satisfied, I later ordered a Bellm oversized 1x hinge pin and installed it. My gun would now close up like a bank vault. No side-side wobble when it was opened. That alone dropped another 1/4" off of my group size.

So, depending on if you buy ammo or handload, it makes a real difference how you go about things. I originally loaded for the Encore just like I would for a bolt gun as that is how I learned to do things. I learned to adapt to improve things to my expectations.

[Doc Highwall]

One more thing to throw out is you can put a shotgun or muzzle loader barrel on the Encore frame.

[wallenba]

[QUOTE=BABore;827909]That is exactly how not to load for an Encore. I know very well, because that's exactly how I used to do it.

BABore, I can now see how that can happen, it just has not happened to me yet. I load the 30 Herrett in mine ( the only necked case cartridge I have in the Contender, and I keep the velocity lower due to the non gas check cast bullet I use. So it seems to work OK in my MGM barrel.

[BABore]

Rimmed cartridges are much more forgiving. You do have to watch the initial sizing when you first form the cases. Basically, size them down until you can just close the action and get it to lock. In effect, your kind of doing the same thing, but without the fancy methods and reasons. Both the 30 and 357 Herett were touchy on sizing. Bump the shoulder too far and you risk faulty ignition and case head separation in short order when they did go bang. Get em too tight and the action would just close and the hammer may not cock. With the rimmed cases, sizing is more for proper function and ignition. Rimless and belted have the same issues plus accuracy also comes into play. Belted mags are the worst cause it's supposed to headspace on the belt. In practical, real world, accuracy terms, you need to get back to the shoulder junction for headspacing. That is if the depth of cut on the belt area allows it. Sounds way worse than it really is. Just takes a different mind set and techniques.

Ideally, a rimmed cartridge's chamber should be cut with the frame to bbl gap known and compensated for.

[exile]

More great information. Well, today is a new day! I have changed my mind, again, to possibly buying a Contender in 6.5 JDJ. I like the efficiency of the cartridge, seems like it will do just what I want, no more, no less. Anybody have one, I wonder what it costs to get into this cartridge from the ground up, frame, barrel, dies, etc.,.?

Also I have a touch of arthritis, is this going to be a hard-kicking cartridge in a handgun? Seems not, but I thought I would ask?

Seems like every reloader should have at least one "wildcat" cartridge, although since its been around since 1978, it hardly seems that anymore.

Thanks again.

exile

[kbstenberg]

BABore do most single shot hinge pin guns have the same problems?
Kevin

[lathesmith]

exile, I have a 6.5x30 JDJ some years ago, and it was one sweet-shooting barrel! Mine was a carbine, and recoil was pretty gentle. I would think that it would be well-behaved in a handgun, especially if you stuck with 120 grain slugs. The 6.5x30 and the 6.5 JDJ are very similar cartridges, and produce almost identical ballistic results. Good luck with your project!

lathesmith

[buckweet]

More great information. Well, today is a new day! I have changed my mind, again, to possibly buying a Contender in 6.5 JDJ. I like the efficiency of the cartridge, seems like it will do just what I want, no more, no less. Anybody have one, I wonder what it costs to get into this cartridge from the ground up, frame, barrel, dies, etc.,.?

Also I have a touch of arthritis, is this going to be a hard-kicking cartridge in a handgun? Seems not, but I thought I would ask?

Seems like every reloader should have at least one "wildcat" cartridge, although since its been around since 1978, it hardly seems that anymore.

Thanks again.

exile




you will LOVE the 6.5 JDJ, absolutly just love it you will.

i started many years ago, with a 7mmTCU,

and like you, i started with the contender, love the trigger, i not like the encore, too heavy, too big, and its ugly.

just me too cents worth.

did i tell ya ? i just LOVE my contender 7tcu !!!!

[exile]

Thanks. I have been thinking about the 6.5 JDJ for years, and it seems that with the price on these guns, I might as well get what I want. So, maybe I will. I have always resisted this idea, because I am mostly just a plinker, but the sight of that large buck 130 yards away, out of range of my .41 magnum, makes me think it would be worth it.

exile

[leadman]

The 6.5 JDJ as you probably know is based on the 225 Winchester. I had a 223 barrel rechambered to the 225 years ago, and at that time it was a search to find the brass. Don't know what it is like now.

I have a 6.5 TCU now and it is very accurate, no reason the JDJ should not be.

I think the triggers are a little nicer on the old Contender frame, could just be me.

[wellfedirishman]

Be careful. Contenders are very addictive. It starts with just one, and next thing you know you have a dozen barrels.

If you have arthritis, a Contender is probably all you need. A gentle 45-70 is a pleasure to shoot in this gun, and very accurate. And if you want to do some damage, you can prepare a hunting load with more power.

There also seems to be a much better market for used Contender barrels than for Encore.

Enjoy!

[45r]

I have a 40-44 JDJ and a 7-tcu,both tack-drivers.If it were me I'd take a look at the 7x30 waters.It is the 30-30 necked down to 7 MM and is easy to shoot and get brass for.They are usually very accurate.My 7-tcu shoots MOA but doesn't have a rim,the 7x30 does and that is more desirable IMHO on a contender.I like the old contender frame myself.The 6.5 JDJ is a good one but probably cost more to shoot.If I hadn't have got such a good deal on my 7- tcu I would have got a 7x30.

[BABore]

BABore do most single shot hinge pin guns have the same problems?
Kevin

From what I understand, yes they do.

From what I posted before, there are several conditions that must occur for the wild ride I got. Neck sizing fireformed rounds that had varying degrees of pressure is the main culpret. If I had necksized cases that all came from a single batch using an identical load I likely would not have seen such a difference. They all would have pre-loaded the frame the same amount and been more consistent. Case style and how they headspace is also a factor.

[exile]

7-30 Waters sounds very good. I will check it out. Thanks.

exile

[exile]

Hey, how about a 30-30 case necked down to a 6.5 mm. bullet? Would that work? I imagine its out there and I just don't know it. :coffeecom

exile

[dragonrider]

I have a 7-30 Waters, 14" barrel for my Contender and it is a sweet shooter. I believe it to be a much better choice than the 7MM TCU. Longer neck, more boolit selection, powder capacity, all in all you can't go wrong with a 7-30 Waters.

[exile]

More research on the internet. Anybody shoot a 30 Herrett?

exile

[BABore]

I used to when I had a Contender. They were a PITA to form and get just right so they close in the action and get the hammer to engage. If I allowed just a wee bit of slop by pushing the shoulder back an extra 0.001" or so, then extraction was a bear. This was cause the head usually separated. The 30-30 parent case is pretty thin walled and you don't get a long life with them if pushed at all. The same goes for the 357 Herrett.

There are alot of other 30 cal options, especially if you go with the Encore. 308 brass is real easy to get and no fuss envolved with it.

[Doc Highwall]

The only thing now that you could do with the 30 Herrett that you could not do when it first came out is you can use .375 Winchester cases. But then again they cost more. The reason the 6.5mm TCU and 7mmTCU are great is the quantity of good cheap 223 brass. If I did not have my 6mmBR,6.5mmBR and 7mmBR I would shoot one of the TCU's.

[leadman]

J.D. Jones has a 6.5 on the 30-30 case.

I have a 21" tapered Conternder barrel in 30-30 and it a great barrel. No bad loads in it, cast or jacketed.

My 14" 30-30 Ackley Improved is very accurate, have shot 1/4" groups with the 125gr. Ballistic Tip at 100 yards. Brass stretches less than standard 30-30. Dies are only slightly more money.

My favorite carbine barrel is my custom 300 Whisper with 1 in 8 rifling. Shoots 200 gr + cast or 125 gr BTs really well. Dies are more, brass is cut down 223.

If you get a rimmed cartridge, make sure you headspace off the shoulder to get the best accuracy and case life.

[buckweet]

i was gonna say, even with some of the rimmed cases, you still need to headspace on the shoulder.
i guess ? the rim would be better to extract the cases, with gloves in cold weather, but ? i've really never had a problem with that on my 7tcu.
i like the 30 herrett, i enjoy forming up the cases, but for me. the 7tcu is ''the one'' i have thousands of .223 brass, and sierra boolits , not that far from my house, i buy the seconds in bulk,
cheap n' eazy shooter, awsome accuracy, kills deer dead, eazy recoil,
i've been known to just fire a .223 factory load outta my tcu barrel, presto, instant 7tcu case.

[exile]

So many choices. 7mm TCU sounds good. I was unsure if it would take deer cleanly but it sounds like it is not a problem. I went to Cabela's in Omaha last night to look at Encore rifles. Much heavier and longer than I expected. I thought they would be much more compact and light than they were. Not much rifle selection, poor customer service. Many 308's and 30-06's but not much else. Employee's who really did not want to be there, did not want to sell guns much.

I have a gift certificate for Cabela's. No 41 magnum bullets. They had a Lee Classic Cast press that they wanted $ 91.00 for. I think I paid $ 59.00 for mine. They did have a Lee IV production pot I almost bought. Five or six boolit molds, but only Lee round ball molds for black powder. I asked them if they would order a Lyman mold for me, they said yes, but I would have to pay shipping.

Thanks for all the good responses.

exile

[leadman]

Look at Ed's Contenders website. He has many factory barrels and third party barrels. Can't recommend a VanHorn barrel though. I have 2 good ones, but also had 2 bad ones and he is not much for correcting a problem.

[buckweet]

I have a 40-44 JDJ and a 7-tcu,both tack-drivers.If it were me I'd take a look at the 7x30 waters.It is the 30-30 necked down to 7 MM and is easy to shoot and get brass for.They are usually very accurate.My 7-tcu shoots MOA but doesn't have a rim,the 7x30 does and that is more desirable IMHO on a contender.I like the old contender frame myself.The 6.5 JDJ is a good one but probably cost more to shoot.If I hadn't have got such a good deal on my 7- tcu I would have got a 7x30.






re-chamber ? the 7tcu to the 7-30 waters ? could be done ?

if u could find another 7tcu barrel, re-work that one, keep your good 7tcu,

just sayin ??? :)

at least, it would be chambered like a custom barrel, probly be a great shooter.

[45r]

re-chamber ? the 7tcu to the 7-30 waters ? could be done ?

if u could find another 7tcu barrel, re-work that one, keep your good 7tcu,

just sayin ??? :)

at least, it would be chambered like a custom barrel, probly be a great shooter.

I'm happy with my 7-tcu,I just like rimmed brass in a single shot.Im going to make a 357 max out on my 357 mag barrel someday.Was going to a get a body reamer but decided to get a saami 357 max reamer altered so I can use it for something besides T/C 357 mag barrels.Might have to send it to Bellm if I can't get a reamer altered.For some reason I got to try the 357 max thing out.Seems like it would make a good cast boolit barrel that wouldn't use a bunch of powder and kick hard.My 35 rem using 215 grain boolits at 1780 fps works well on deer in my Marlin so the max has my interest now.

[two dogs]

my 7 tcu with h332 and 120 nosler ballistic tip is deadly on anything inside 200 yards.185 yd deer this year,bang flop.

[Idaho_Elk_Huntr]

Check this out Exile.


https://www.matchgrademachine.com/forum/

http://www.matchgrademachine.com/chamberings_public.php

[bearcove]

bullberry does a 6.5x30. No advantage over a 7-30 waters but is a wildcat. 7-30 waters ammo and brass are available. 7TCU is a fun barrel had one years ago but not in the same class as 7-30. The 30-30 14 inch barrels are a good choice because ammo is available anywhere that sells ammo.

What Babore says about sizing... is the facts. You can still get some barrels to shoot well, but if you know what is happening then you can troubleshoot the ones that don't.

The contender tops out powerwise at a 444 marlin. To get that you have to rechamber a 44 mag bbl.

7-30 Waters is a very good place to start. If you find a 14 in 30-30 bbl try it, It can be rechambered to 308 bellm if its not a shooter. The biggest problem with contender bbl is poor chambers. If you get an Encore get Bergera bbls they are cheaper and much better

[jhalcott]

I have the 7tc/u,7-30 and 6.5JDJ. Also the 30-30,35 rem 45-70 and 358JDJ. ALL of them have been used on deer and other critters at one time on another! The 6.5 jdj has accounted for many deer in excess of 200 yards. MY 7-30 barrel shoots best with factory Federal ammo,and I have tried a LOT of hand loads in it. It is about 200/250 fps faster than the 7tc/u with top loads. Will that velocity loss/gain mean that much to a deer at 200 yards or less? I can tell you this, MY FIRST choice for hunting is the 6.5JDJ with a 2.5x8 Leupold scope. 2nd is the 7tc/u in either 14" or 21" when deer are on the list. for ground hogs, I often take the 10" 7tc/u WITH the 6.5JDJ.

[exile]

Thanks guys. The MGM site looks good. So many choices.

exile

[45r]

The MGM site is interesting.The 7x30 with the 1 in 11 twist was shooting very well with 4895 and 2520.I really like that everybody is happy with their 357 max and hornady condum bullets.They shoot cast well also from what his customers have said.I've got a rifle reamer in 357 max coming,should make a good cast boolit shooter.I was on the GBO forum and it seems the 7x30 is the most popular.I'm tempted to get a 22 inch MGM 7x30 barrel with the 1 in 11 twist.

[Duckhunter]

exile, I have had the exact same experience that BABore explained above. The Bellm T/C site is an excellent resourse for any break action rifle; Prohunter, Encore, Contender, H&R etc. These rifles (and pistols) can be extremely accurate but some different reloading procedures should be considered for the specific firearm (not harder, just different). My brother, my son and I have these rifles and all of them shoot very well. Another plus, you can buy barrels from several custom barrel makers in all those wonderful wildcat chamberings that work really well.

[exile]

I am still considering this issue. I am just about convinced that what I want is an Encore rifle in .260 Remington, mainly because I am thinking I can use .308 brass. However a website I visited stated that the .260 Remington is .020" longer than the .308 brass. Does this mean I cannot safely form .260 Remington brass from .308 brass? Also which has greater powder capacity, .260 Remington or 6.5 Swedish Mauser? I thought the 6.5 Mauser, but I could be wrong (too lazy to go downstairs and look at my reloading manuals I guess.) Thanks,

exile

[Idaho_Elk_Huntr]

It would be a lot of work. You will almost have to turn necks. Would be best to get 243 and go up.

[singleshotman]

I would not buy one unless you were NEVER planning to use cast bullets.To state it planly, there barrels ARE JUNK-my father bought one in 32-40 and was planning to shoot it with cast bullets.He didn't after the first time he shot it, it leaded worse than any gun he ever owned.It was rough as a cobb inside, good for jacketed bulllets i suppose, but lead, forget it. He'b been shooting cast bullets for thirty years at that point.He said that was the worst barrel he ever saw, incuding some old rusted rolling blocks he bought.

[Idaho_Elk_Huntr]

Here is 2 of my newest 3 barrels. One is a 6mm Rem made by MGM and the other is a factory Pro Hunter 300 Win Mag. Both look like they going to be great barrels. I have seen $4000 custom rifles not shoot like this. No fire lapping or anything on my part. I see a lot of people claiming that there guns wont shoot. I havent had that problem.

Drive that over sized hinge pin in and void your warranty. If its loose send it back to TC and make them fix it.

These groups were fired from the 6mm. 200 yards. Total of 25 rounds has been through it. These are the first loads for the gun.
http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/IdahoElkHunter/t4.jpg
http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/IdahoElkHunter/t1.jpg

This is a group fired from the 300 Win Mag. 300 yards. 200 grain Accubonds. and yes there were more groups like this besides this one.
http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/IdahoElkHunter/range2.jpg

[Doc Highwall]

exile, just buy the 260 Remington brass no work no fuss and properly marked. Some people are buying Lapua 243 brass to make high grade brass for match rifles. Personally for a hunting rifle I just bought Remington brass for my Browning 1885 Low Wall in 260 Remington and I am happy with it.

[part_timer]

singleshotman,
I have several of the custom shop bbls and several off the shelf and I've not had any problem using them with cast. I'd say TC has the sam problem as any company, sometimes one gets through that shouldn't. The question is what do they do about it when you send it back? So far I've had nothing but good customer service out of them.

[45r]

You could just go with a 308.Some very good groups can be had,it wins a lot of matches.Molds and brass are easy to find.My rem shoots half moa with condum bullets.It would probably do as well with cast but I got a 30-30 for that.150 grain bullets don't kick hard and drop deer very well from my Mtn rifle.

[Mowdy Ag]

...and for my first post on this forum...

...another concurrence with BABore's comments. I observed precisely the same effects with my 280 AI and found a lot of answers at Mike Bellm's website (bellmtcs.com). Full-length resizing to deliver .001" headspace (I have a barrel-to-frame gap of .002") makes a world of difference in accuracy.

My main question now is how many FL resizing cycles my Nosler brass will tolerate before going south. I'm up to five on some of it now but wondering...

Good forum BTW

MA